He needs his space, but. . .

[Guest XxExoticPsychExX]

So I think I'm beginning to understand why Solomon has been biting me a lot more recently. I think it has to do with him wanting his own space regardless of where he may be. For instance, when he's on my bed or in the bathroom with me, it seems like he'll randomly just bite me. I know he's possessive of his toys (not always though. . .) so I've been trying not to touch his toys if he's in close proximity. Otherwise it seems like he literally wants me to move over some more, but not too far away because then he begins to indicate that he wants to go where ever I'm going. I think he knows when to bite me based off of my bodily orientation. For example, when I'm lying down stretched out on my bed, he won't bite, but if I'm sitting next to him he'll come over and bite my hand if I'm too close. I know I'm too close if he begins to puff up and gives me that look that says, "don't come any closer!"

 

What I find to be weird is that he will be playing with his toys, shredding something, just being plain occupied (on my bed) on his own and I'll be sitting on the other side of the bed doing homework or something else and he'll stop doing what he was doing, sit there for like a minute and then come right over and bite the back of my arm. Is he doing this because he wants me to pay attention to him all of a sudden? I've tried giving him attention by talking to him and giving him praise (before he could come over and bite) to keep this from happening, but it doesn't seem to work. I don't want to give him attention when he comes over to bite me for it, so I'm just going to sit in a separate chair next to the bed. Am I interpreting his actions incorrectly? When he does this specific action he does not puff up or show any visible signs of aggression.

 

It's similar to when I go to pick him up sometimes. I thought I knew his indications for when he wants to be picked up and go some where. Usually he positions himself in a way that looks like he's about to take flight (squats down, head lowered and stretched forward, wings slightly open and horizontal) and aims in the direction that he wants to go with the addition of making these little squeak sounds. That was how I learned that he wanted to be picked up and go somewhere (i.e. my bed, my mom's room, with me in general, etc.). Lately he'll do this (mostly happens on my bed and not when taking him out of the cage) and indicate that he wants to go to his cage or somewhere else, but when I go to pick him up he completely changes his demeanor, gets all puffed up and bites. This does not happen if I were to be taking him out of the cage. I'm always asking him, "do you want to go to the bed?" or if he indicates cage I'll ask, "do you want to go back to the cage?" or if it looks like he wants to come with me I'll ask, "do you want to come with me?" Then I give the step up command right before I go to offer my hand. I'm not sure what to do in this case other than not picking him up. However, I'm thinking about what to do when it's time to go to bed and I have to place him in his cage or when I need to leave for school or work. Everyone else in my family is afraid of handling him and I don't trust two of my younger brothers to treat him correctly when it comes to handling. This wasn't happening before so I'm lost. Any thoughts? What am I doing wrong? :confused:

[danmcq]

There are many different dynamics going on in each situation.

 

"So I think I'm beginning to understand why Solomon has been biting me a lot more recently. I think it has to do with him wanting his own space regardless of where he may be. For instance, when he's on my bed or in the bathroom with me, it seems like he'll randomly just bite me."

 

Nothing is ever random when it comes to a bite. They serve a reason in his mind and he is communicating with you. First I want to differentiate between a real aggressive bite versus a pinch or even just strong pressure.

 

1. Aggressive bite = Rips skin, punches holes and you bleed.

2. Pinch - Gets a hold of a flap of skin and it's like a pinch from a person that hurts.

3. Pressure - Applies pressure in degrees from soft, medium and strong.

 

"What I find to be weird is that he will be playing with his toys, shredding something, just being plain occupied (on my bed) on his own and I'll be sitting on the other side of the bed doing homework or something else and he'll stop doing what he was doing, sit there for like a minute and then come right over and bite the back of my arm. Is he doing this because he wants me to pay attention to him all of a sudden?<snip> When he does this specific action he does not puff up or show any visible signs of aggression.

"

 

Yes, Yes, Yes, he wants attention !! He is not being aggressive. I suspect this is a pressure and small pinch. He may be doing things like playing with a toy while you are nearby occupied with something. But I guarantee you, he is watching you as he plays and believe it or not wants you to at least be paying partial attention to him. So after a while he comes over to let you know you have dropped the ball in paying attention to him. Even just an occasional glance will stop this due to it confirming you know he is there and is putting on a display for you.

 

"Lately he'll do this (mostly happens on my bed and not when taking him out of the cage) and indicate that he wants to go to his cage or somewhere else, but when I go to pick him up he completely changes his demeanor, gets all puffed up and bites."

 

That is aggression when he changes his body language as you describe. It means you misread his wants or intentions. If you see him starting to puff up as you proceed in the action getting him..STOP before the bite. In this case when you say bite, is it blood drawing, a pinch or firm pressure? They have different meanings such as Back Off or You Took Too Long or testing the sturdiness of you hand as a perch etc.

 

"However, I'm thinking about what to do when it's time to go to bed and I have to place him in his cage or when I need to leave for school or work."

 

In these cases, he has no choice and you must retrieve him to get him in the cage. Just make sure when you go for the step up that you use the back of your hand with you fist balled up to keep that skin tight to eliminate loose skin that can be punctured easily. Believe, they learn know the difference and situation both in your tone and body language that this is not a request but a requirement. This of course does not mean they just decide in that case they will comply easily, but they know the situation is different. This is one of the times an aggressive bite will be coming or at least they will try to deliver one.

Edited April 27, 2012 by danmcq

[judygram]

Thats excellent advice Dan and pretty much sums it up, thanks.

[Guest XxExoticPsychExX]

Thank you for all that info. I understand that the degree of the bite can mean a lot of things.

 

In all of the specific instances that I mentioned above he has bitten hard enough to puncture the skin and draw blood. The only time he has punctured the skin and hasn't drawn blood is when he bites the back of my arm. At first the bites weren't this hard and were very tolerable, but it has escalated so I wasn't sure if I should give him attention for this or not. He also tends to kind of grind his beak back and forth when doing so (with all these specific instances). Ouch.

 

In the case when I go to pick him up, most of the time he doesn't show any back off warnings until my hand is in position for him to step up. However, by that time I can't pull away without teaching him that biting makes hands go away. Other times he'll step up (no puffing up or eyes pinning initially) and then aggressively bite after he's already on my hand (now there's the puffing and change in eyes).

 

Should I be using the iron fist every time I pick him up then? He's just so darn smart that when ever I do give him the iron fist he's learned that he can get a grasp on my fingers from the bottom and from the sides of my hand. Not to mention above my wrist.

 

Maybe I should position my hand for him to step up a distance away from him and see if he'll willingly come and step up on his own? He does this sometimes for me when I'm offering to take him out of the cage.

 

I'll try taking video footage next time in case I'm not seeing something.

 

Thanks again!

Edited April 27, 2012 by XxExoticPsychExX

[Luvparrots]

Thanks Dan, great and accurate advice. My Louie, the untouchable zon, is a biter although he has never broken skin and very seldom bites a very hurting bite. We have been working for over a year to understand each other.

[danmcq]

"Should I be using the iron fist every time I pick him up then? He's just so darn smart that when ever I do give him the iron fist he's learned that he can get a grasp on my fingers from the bottom and from the sides of my hand. Not to mention above my wrist."

 

It's great to hear you already know the Iron Fist. The second part is to ensure that when you see he is going to lean forward/down to bite, wobble your arm/hand so he Slightly loses balance and stops bring his head down as his must correct himself to keep from falling. I have to do this with my grey as well when he does not want to at times that it is a must do.

 

"Maybe I should position my hand for him to step up a distance away from him and see if he'll willingly come and step up on his own? He does this sometimes for me when I'm offering to take him out of the cage."

 

Absolutely! It never hurts to ask first to see if they are willing to step up on their own first. After a while over time, you'll start seeing that foot go way in the air, sometimes on their own when they are communicating they wish to be picked up to be closer to you.

 

"I'll try taking video footage next time in case I'm not seeing something."

 

That is a great way of actually seeing and studying feedback, if you are able to capture some of those precise interactions.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I've never heard about the " iron fist". What that about? nancy

[danmcq]

I've never heard about the " iron fist". What that about? nancy

 

Hi Nancy - It is balling your hand in to a tight fist so the skin on the back of your hand is drawn tight, keep your thumb tucked down, then when you move forward with your hand, you have the back of it turned up as you glide in low asking for a step up. They cannot bite the back of your hand when the skin is drawn tight. You just need to watch for them coming over your hand to bite any portion of a finger or flesh underneath. Thus the need to perhaps roll your hand back and forth gently to keep them off balance and get them to where you are going. Most times. as you probably know, once you start movement they are paying attention to where your going rather than your hand they are perched on.

Edited April 27, 2012 by danmcq

[Wingy]

I have never heard of this but can see how it would work. Its hard to pinch something that is tight. The only problem I can see is with my thumbs. They don't tuck like I think they should but I'm going to practice and see if I can't find something to do with them to get them out of the way. One thing I will be doing is working on step up to an arm instead of the hand because I have arthritis that will only get worse. Balling my hand makes the skin tight on my arm so this should work nicely.

 

Thanks

 

Hi Nancy - It is balling your hand in to a tight fist so the skin on the back of your hand is drawn tight, keep your thumb tucked down, then when you move forward with your hand, you have the back of it turned up as you glide in low asking for a step up. They cannot bite the back of your hand when the skin if drawn tight. You just need to watch for them coming over your hand to bite any portion of a finger or flesh underneath. Thus the need to perhaps roll you hand back and forth gently to keep them off balance and get them to where you are going. Most times. as you probably know, once you start movement they are paying attention to where your going rather than your hand they are perched on.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

danmcq, very interesting! No, I really didn't know! ( seriously!) I am struggling lately, with Sophie refusing to " stepdown". I know this is the opposite of everyone's problem, but it is a serious problem for me! She will clamp her claws, to the point of hurting. She will only stepdown, if I put her on the floor. Nancy

[chezron]

After awhile, and being very observant, you will see subtle body language which will alert you to how Solomon is feeling. This will help a lot. Make sure and read the Body Language piece on this forum. It is very good at introducing Grey body language. I think it is good that you are saying what you are going to do before you do it.

[danmcq]

danmcq, very interesting! No, I really didn't know! ( seriously!) I am struggling lately, with Sophie refusing to " stepdown". I know this is the opposite of everyone's problem, but it is a serious problem for me! She will clamp her claws, to the point of hurting. She will only stepdown, if I put her on the floor. Nancy

 

Hi Nancy, sorry this is long in coming. I just saw this.

 

Wow, now that is a completely different problem that I cannot remember ever having to address here. I have had this happen early when trimming dayos nails and he grasped on to my fingers while I was trying to hold his Talon to trim. Jesus, talk about "put a hurt on you"! It is a grip of death and you cannot get them to release it and is very painful. Thanks to Dave on this forum, he suggested using a short 4 inch piece of perch that I had dayo clamp his talons on and it worked perfectly in letting me trim his nails.

 

I know this is not your issue that your dealing though. I only have a Talon clamp like you describe if Dayo does not want to release for example when I take him to his cage at night which he hates. I do not use my hand, rather I use my fore arm for this. I will say though, sometimes if I don't keep the sharp tips dulled on his talons, I will end up with puncture holes in my arm. The problem with Talons clamped, they are mechanically "Locked" until the bird mentally/mechanically "Unlocks" them (keeps them from falling out of trees while sleeping) and keeps them glued to us. The big problem, is you can not of course pulled them off you without ripping your flesh and/or hurting the bird, so that's not an option.

 

I am uncertain where you may be wanting Sopie to down to, but perhaps her favorite treat could be used as an enticement to step down for? Is this a particular place you always have problems getting to step down? What is so alluring about the floor, is it her favorite place to spend time?

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

danmcq... many people use treats to comply. I have never done so. ( not sure why, but didn't.) I have never used food or treats for behavior modification. It won't work at this point. Not sure why, putting her on the floor in front of her gym worked. I do suspect she is refusing to stepdown, as she knows I am concerened about my pup, and am focused on Zoey.( new seizure disorder), and I am worried. Not sure if Sophie is worried about Zoey, or worried about ME, being worried about Zoey.( she LOVES Zoey!) Sophie is a VERY intelligent bird. If something changes in our animal kingdom. she knows. Nancy

[danmcq]

LOL Nancy, how true about them worrying about what your worried about! These greys are just too intelligent sometimes!!!