"It's MINE!!!"

[JeffNOK]

Gracie is a very spoiled fid in the toy department. Every time I go out to get her essentials I can't resist getting a new toy for her. I try to rotate toys in and out every few days to keep her interested. The only issue is that Gracie is very possessive of her toys. She is a sweet bird 99% of the time, but when I reach for one of her toys, she storms over to me all fluffed up and lunges at my fingers. It's only a bluff because she strikes about a half inch away from me rather than making contact. I don't pull my hand away. Up until recently I just ignored her bravado, but in the last few days, I have let her know that such displays are not ladylike and I don't appeciate them. Well today I was removing one of her favorite toys and she started her mischief with me. I looked her in the eye and sternly said "No, that's not nice." She stopped in her tracks and eyed me without lunging. Then she walked over to a different toy, fluffed up and struck it with all her might. Then she looked back at me, fluttered her little red tail and squawked as if to say, "That could have been you!". I just laughed and told her she was a good girl to attack the other toy instead of Daddy. I know she got the last word in a way, but what warmed my heart is that she seemed to know that I had feelings too and in spite of her instincts, she respected them.

[Guest XxExoticPsychExX]

Lol that's exactly what Solomon does to me! Except he actually bites and chomps down hard and says, "Move!" I make sure it's on my non-dominant hand most of the time. I have the scabs and scars to prove it! Ohhh we have such a ways to go

[JeffNOK]

Yes indeed we all have such a long ways to go. What I am learning about life with a grey is that there is so much that lies ahead. With a dog, once they are potty trained and quit chewing up the furniture you pretty much have your relationship established. I'm beginning to suspect that with greys there is an ongoing evolution that takes years. It's very cool, but daunting at the same time. It certainly keeps us on our toes.

[TWIX]

Wow, what a story i enjoyed it and learned something new today.

[Guest XxExoticPsychExX]

Yes, it's a more fragile relationship. It bothers me at times to know that one wrong move can set us back, but it's comforting to know that they can be and are willing to forgive.

[danmcq]

Up until recently I just ignored her bravado, but in the last few days, I have let her know that such displays are not ladylike and I don't appeciate them. Well today I was removing one of her favorite toys and she started her mischief with me. I looked her in the eye and sternly said "No, that's not nice." She stopped in her tracks and eyed me without lunging. Then she walked over to a different toy, fluffed up and struck it with all her might. Then she looked back at me, fluttered her little red tail and squawked as if to say, "That could have been you!".

 

Cute story Jeff and a perfect example for all to learn from about body language. That is Gracie showing displaced aggression and she was letting you know "That could have been you". We all learn through examples like this over time with our greys when it is time to back off before a bite occurs. It is the time we indicate we understand their body and respect it. In the wild or even bird to bird interaction seen in our homes, clearly indicates that is how one bird communicates to the other it has entered the others "Space" and to back off. If ignored, the other bird will either get a bite or chased off. For us humans it means we are going to get bit. I can guarantee you, Gracie knows each and every nuance of your body language down to the slight twitch of and eyelid. That is how attentive birds are to it and know what each and every gesture, voice tone, smiling,frowning etc. telegraphing we give before we do it. They expect us to pay attention to the same minute detail of theirs. Gracie's display was a full blown I am going to rip you to shreds, but due to her young age, stopped and took it out on the toy.

 

I still get a nip now and them, but believe me, I can read Dayos body language down to just how he slightly moves, pins an eye and twitches a toe indicating I better stop whatever it is I am about to do or am doing. But, I will say Greys are the Mohammed Ali of non-telegraphing and sucker punching before you know what hit you at times.

Edited April 26, 2012 by danmcq

[thenabrd]

i agree dan that they are non-telegraphing!!! i watch kallie carefully to do my best to understand her mood, intentions, etc. kallie will put her head down for a rub, with her beak pointed down towards the floor, body relaxed, no pinning, no movement at all, the perfect picture of relaxed grey wanting a scratch, and sometimes she'll just whip her head around to try to bite! if her head is down but her beak is pointed to the side and she's looking at me, with no pinning, no movement, etc, she'll try to bite on occasion!!! so far, i've been able to avoid the bite and always tell her "no bite" while making an ugly or unhappy face, then turning my back to her for a few seconds. sometimes she'll then ask me "why?" so i explain that it hurts and makes me sad. it cracks me up when she asks (at that point i'm laughing in my mind, not out loud), but even more when after i've explained "why", she'll go "hhhhmmmm"!!!! i don't know if that means she's thinking about how to pull it off better the next time or if she's trying to understand what i'm explaining!! she's a character, so i figure she's trying to figure out how to pull it off better the next time, lol!!!

[danmcq]

i agree dan that they are non-telegraphing!!! i watch kallie carefully to do my best to understand her mood, intentions, etc. kallie will put her head down for a rub, with her beak pointed down towards the floor, body relaxed, no pinning, no movement at all, the perfect picture of relaxed grey wanting a scratch, and sometimes she'll just whip her head around to try to bite! if her head is down but her beak is pointed to the side and she's looking at me, with no pinning, no movement, etc, she'll try to bite on occasion!!!!

 

That is a classic grey non-telegraphed move. They are hard if not impossible to see coming and they are FAST! Sometimes I can tell (maybe through intuition, not any noticeable body language) that I better not continue my perceived invitation to give him a scratch. Other times I do get a nip. It is so hard to tell, when 99 percent of the time they truly want scratches and enjoy them.

[Life is Greyt]

Sometimes when I tell Chickie "no bite" I can see her stop, think about it for a second, and then chomp anyways or she just looks at me with a look that says" just so you know, I can bite if I want...i CHOSE not to." LOL.

[JeffNOK]

So, does it do any good to try to communicate to our greys that it's not nice to bite, or is it better to just read their body language and avoid the bite? As I said, Gracie doesn't really bite, but as Dan said, she is young (just turned 9 months). Will she be more likely to bite when she gets older? One other thing that I find works with the toy situation is that if she is poised near her toy when I want to move it or exchange it for another, I ask her to step up on one hand--then move her away from the cage while I use the other hand to handle the toy. When I do that, she just waits patiently for me to return her to her play top without any aggression.

Edited April 27, 2012 by JeffNOK

[danmcq]

"So, does it do any good to try to communicate to our greys that it's not nice to bite"

 

Yes, it is always good to let them know in a stern voice "NO Bite", when they do bite aggressively. Also if it is a hard beaking, let them know in a nice voice it's too hard. When they soften their next beaking tell them "That's Better" good boy or whatever you wish to say to indicate this. They learn by feedback positive and negative. Of course this will be a work in progress over time.

 

"is it better to just read their body language and avoid the bite?"

 

Yes! We need to learn every nuance of our individual grey's body language. Believe me, they have ours.

 

"As I said, Gracie doesn't really bite, but as Dan said, she is young (just turned 9 months). Will she be more likely to bite when she gets older."

 

Maybe, maybe not. Each grey is different. But I can tell you, as they get older, when they do mean to bite, it is much harder and sometimes aggressive because they are outraged over whatever it is happened. These can be blood spurting bites. But, not all Greys do this. Some people here for example have greys that from what I understand have never bitten. But, that is not the norm.

[judygram]

Some people here for example have greys that from what I understand have never bitten. But, that is not the norm.

I am one of those Dan, Josey has never really bitten me, she has beaked and clamped down but never drawn blood, she usually just pushes my hand away if she doesn't want me to touch her or do what I was trying to do and I respect her wishes so I don't push it, of course it helps that I am her favored one.

[danmcq]

Awww, bless Josey's heart. She is such a sweetheart. Wish we heard more of those wonderful stories I am sure you have kept guarded close to your heart.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

JeffNOK... you are actually doing EVERYTHING right, but don't know what you are doing right! LOL! I was in the same boat as you. You are following your intuition, and are making excellent choices! You are establishing parenthood. Your baby is respecting you, and learning you are the parent. Yes.... always let Gracie know, " I don't appreciate the bite!"

They will have temper tantrums, and attacking toys, is a great vent for them. It actually doesn't take as long as you think for a grey to understand your expectations. They are very smart. It took Sophie an additional year after being adopted at age two. Every bite was discussed! She got away with NOTHING! I never felt sorry for her and we were always consistent as a family, to let her know her " bites", weeren't appreciated. Fast forward ten years later... I haven't been bitten in a decade. Nor have kids. The moment I walk in the door, Sophie is waiting for me. She is very important to me and kids, and is treated as such. Nancy

[JeffNOK]

kins--it's so greyt to hear what a good family member Sophie is. It sounds like she has a good relationship with the whole flock--which isn't a given with greys from what I understand.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Its NOT a given, with greys! Yes... you are right! My point is.... Its NOT up to them, what works. YOU are the parent, THEY are the child. YOU make the rules. Sophie rules the flock, including dogs, but I am the flock leader, and make all final decisions. nancy