NutMeg Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 About 2 weeks ago( approx 2 weeks after we took her in) I heard a noise from her cage around 2 am and saw her half climb and flutter down to the cage floor so I ran to make sure she was ok only to realize she was going into a seizure. I took her out and held her and it lasted for maybe a minute. I got some sugar water just in case her sugar was low and she took a tiny bit. I put her in a carrier to watch her as she seemed ok then. However only 10 minutes later she went into another seizure and it was much harder and wouldn't stop. We rushed to find the nearest animal emergency who treated exotic birds.It was almost an hour away! We wrapped her up in something warm and took off. Her seizure never fully stopped the entire time. By the time we got there she was panting and her eyes were still twitching although she wasn't having a seizure. It was then 4 am. They took her back, got a catheter in her and gave her meds to stop the seizures and took blood. They thought maybe it was low calcium but her levels came back as normal. We left her there over night to be worked on as they weren't sure she would survive. Her body temp was very low as was her heart rate. They even asked us to consider putting her down which we would not do unless she continued to seizure and suffer. We left a deposit and left after saying our goodbyes to her just in case. We got home around 7 am and we were called by 9 am by the Actual doctor who came in for the day. She had another seizure and got more meds for it and he was also talking about putting her down or it would be costly to save her if it was even possible. Mind you I do not have a credit card and care credit would not help us. I asked him to do everything he possibly could as cheap as he possibly could and try to save her and I we would come up with the money. So he started her on an IV,Antibiotics,and a medication for Lead poisoning. That night I called them at 12am and we were told she hasn't had another seizure yet and she was eating some fruits and food. By 9 am I got a call from the doctor saying she was able to perch again , was climbing again but looked depressed and horrible. He said if she doesn't have another seizure by 2pm I'll dispense you the meds we have been treating her with so she can try and get better at home with out the stress. We picked her up by 6 pm and were given meds and injections to give her. Luckily I am experienced so I didn't have a problem and he let me take her home to do this. Well after 5 days of injections, oral antibiotics and calcium she was doing wonderful. We took her back 3 days after the injections ended to test her lead levels. They came back as zero.he said she looks wonderful and has even gained weight since this happened. He thinks it could have been a brain infection, calcium issues, lead poisoning which was treated successfully, brain tumor, or epilepsy. He does not think it is a calcium issue because of the blood results and the rest of her blood profile looking very healthy but we are still giving her a low dose of liquid calcium daily as a precaution. He said if it was a brain tumor she wouldn't have responded so well to the treatment. So he narrowed it down basically to either some kind of blood or brain infection or Epilepsy. He warned me if it was epilepsy this would happen again.However after doing research I found that with epilepsy the seizures don't last as long as the one she had. So basically we are clueless as to what this was which scares us. We have taken all metal out of her cage including coop cups, even though it was thought to be safe for her coming from bird stores and one that has been in there with her for many many years with no issues. I have also taken out most of her toys and given her ones with either no metal and or no plastic. She had baby chain links in her cage that she had chewed on but the vet doesn't think that was it,but says it is possible if it was made in china. Now I fear giving her any new toys and am super paranoid. She has colored wood blocks to chew on and a grass hat with that confetti paper looking stuff in it , with the japanese finger trap type stuff on it. I fear giving her anything plastic now but she loved playing with everything before. I need to know if these plastic things sold at bird stores are safe for her. Or the metal rings used to hang toys, or the chain the toys are strung on etc. I couldn't find anything on it saying stainless steel. So how do I know? Also here is her current diet Zupreem natural colored pellets, Fresh Poland spring water only now, Raw Almonds from Whole Foods ( which are steamed on the outside to kill anything) She gets other nuts from Wholefoods but doesn't usually touch them and its sparingly. She gets Broccoli ,and sweet potato daily as she loves them and Butternut Squash every other day. Then banana, blueberries, pasta,brown wild rice, apple, watercress, fresh corn on the cob, string beans, cinnamon sticks, fresh coconut and I try other veggies but she usually won't eat them after trying it. I try to mix it up so its not boring. I bought a bunch of dried fruits from whole foods but she won't touch them so my other parrots get them. She is picky with fruit and nuts and will usually only eat almonds. She occasionally gets the pepper fine course harrisons pellets as well. I buy most of my stuff from Bird Paradise in NJ. If I am leaving anything out ,or doing something wrong please please tell me!!! 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judygram Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I really feel for you NutMeg and your problem with Lucky and I do not have any answers for you, your best bet is your avian vet, I know that is expensive but none of us here are vets so we would just be guessing. I think you have already done the best you can for her and maybe she won't have any more seizures. It looks like she gets a good variety of healthy foods, I so wish I could help you but we will be here for support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWIX Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Oh God, i know how it feels, i'm so sorry and hope she will be fine soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Does your grey have time in the sunlight?? I believe sunlight can help with seizure problems. http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/seizures.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) Your a wonderful "Parrot". What a wonderful job you are doing. May I suggest, probiotics, or plain yogurt high in bacteria, a half to whole teaspoon a day is perfect, you can feed as much of it as she'll eat. This is for her stomach...[Yougurt is safe for parrots, it's not the same as dairy.] Jayd Side note: Cinnamon is Greyt for our fid's, but nutmeg is poison... Edited April 9, 2012 by Jayd added side note Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 You are doing everything under the sun to help your girl. What is her name? I am sorry for you going through the panic and uncertainty that comes when a loved one is having a crisis. I am not experienced enough to have any advice for you, it is hard to know what the cause was and the rest of the things you are doing are common for all of us protecting our greys from known issues. The only tip I can pass on came from this forum and it is to put a magnet on your stainless steel. If it has a stong tight bond, it is a higher quality steel. I don't know about welds or coatings so I am adamant to buy my links and kabobs etc. from the bird store where they make assurances it is food grade stainless steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 So tough when you don't really know what you are treating, so scary when you see your baby struggling and so frightening when you can't help right away. I would remove the pellets from the diet right now as sometimes they are implicated in siezures due to the high vitamin levels. Stick with fresh foods, some seed & grains even start sprouting for your Grey. Do add at least 1 to 2 hrs of unfiltered (not through glass) Sunshine to the routine as well it can only help. Just make sure he does not overheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 The only tip I can pass on came from this forum and it is to put a magnet on your stainless steel. If it has a stong tight bond, it is a higher quality steel. This comment confuses me. If you don't know if something is stainless (versus zinc coated), using a magnet will not necessarily help. Most stainless steel that you will encounter (outside of certain industries) is NOT magnetic. Magnetism is not an indication of quality of stainless steel. It is an indication of the additives. Ferritic and martensitic stainless steels are magnetic. Austenitic stainless steels are non-magnetic. Ferretic is cheaper, but is less corrosion resistant, due to lower chromium and nickel content. Most compositions include molybdenum; some, aluminium or titanium. Martensitic is highly machinable, but more brittle. Martensitic stainless steel contains chromium (12–14%), molybdenum (0.2–1%), nickel (less than 2%), and carbon (about 0.1–1%) (giving it more hardness but making the material a bit more brittle). The vast majority of stainless steel bolts/nuts are 18/8 austenitic, which means they contain 18% chromium and 8% nickel. Not magnetic. ALL zinc-coated steel IS magnetic, as is nickel-coated steel (which is considered bird-safe). Uncoated steel, "carbon steel", does not have a higher level of chromium like stainless does. The chromium in stainless steel forms a chromium oxide on the surface, which limits oxidation of the iron (rust). Also, "food grade stainless" is not an official (regulated) term, so you don't necessarily know what that means. In practice, it can mean either non-magnetic austenitic stainless (300 series which includes 18/8, 18/10) or magnetic ferritic stainless (400 series). (The percentages and fancy words are taken from wikipedia's article on stainless steel since my memory is weak...) I'm sorry for the diversion from the subject, but don't assume that magnetic means safer - it typically means it ISN'T stainless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikachu Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Careful Doug, the engineer in you is coming out! ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Careful Doug, the engineer in you is coming out!; ) At least you can trust an engineer. But I've kept a dirty secret from the forum - I've been in sales for more than 10 years. Ahh, the shame is strong but somewhat lessened by the burden lifted from my shoulders... From this point on, no-one will believe anything that I say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 We rushed to find the nearest animal emergency who treated exotic birds. NutMeg, I am so sorry to hear of the troubles your poor baby is having. Is the emergency vet a board-certified avian vet? I'm not saying anything negative about the recommendations from forum members, but I really think you need to consult with an avian vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 LOL was it a really BIG Fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 LOL was it a really BIG Fish? Whoa, there. I'm a salesman, not a fisherman. I have SOME integrity and honesty. Somewhere... Let me look around... I'm sure it's here somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Lets get this thread back on topic please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutMeg Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Ok @ Jayd Nutmeg is just my nickname,I don't give it to my fids, no worries but thanks for the info @ Doug, Thank you for the info. She had a chain with old pieces of wood on it that she has had for over 10 years in her cage. Her previous owner stated she would ring the bell at the bottom when she wanted something or was out of food etc. Not sure how true that was but I felt bad and kept it in for a bit after we got her to make her more comfortable with the her new home by having everything familiar to her. I must say me and my husband took a magnet and touched it to everything. My husband runs a scrap metal yard and told me that 100% stainless steel would not be magnetic as far as he knows. The outside of this chain was also semi oxidized looking.It was darker and dull as opposed to bright and shiny and when we touched the magnet to it it stuck like glue. However a few of the other new chains from the popular bird store also stuck, so I wasn't sure what to think. I took everything out of her cage anyway. I guess I will have to ask the bird store how they know these particular chains are safe. As for the vet. He is a DVM only as far as I know, however he has been treating small animals, birds, and exotics for years. He is the vet for a zoo over here and see's all types of exotics and birds and not your typical "exotic pet" and that was the only hospital that would see her at 2am who had any experience. He seemed fairly educated on the Grey telling me specific things these birds were prone to as opposed to a Macaw etc. I do have an Avian vet though who is board certified who I keep in touch with about my Macaw. He has seen and performed surgery on wildlife and other rescues for me but has never seen my Macaw. She goes into Violent seizures anytime she is moved, touched etc. I fear transporting her and then being examined on top of it will be the end for her. She is wild caught, not friendly ,65+ years, and has gone into seizures and shock simply from being moved from one house to another, from being put into a carrier etc. and he is an hour away. Long story short, we basically agreed to let her be unless something serious or emergency came up. I planned on emailing him and asking his opinions on this but he is currently out of the country so it will have to wait. I know most if not everyone here is not a vet but I also think that some owners of a specific species , over the years sometimes know more then vets. And I don't mean can save a life more then a vet,or know how to perform a surgery I just mean with knowledge and experience. I do really like this vet though and would love to make him and his staff her vet for basics etc as they are super nice, clean,large facility, and have a specialty and rehab center on site with over 20 vets but are ridiculously expensive. I am still recovering from our bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 My husband runs a scrap metal yard and told me that 100% stainless steel would not be magnetic as far as he knows. The outside of this chain was also semi oxidized looking.It was darker and dull as opposed to bright and shiny and when we touched the magnet to it it stuck like glue. However a few of the other new chains from the popular bird store also stuck, so I wasn't sure what to think. I took everything out of her cage anyway. I guess I will have to ask the bird store how they know these particular chains are safe. As I mentioned, 400 series stainless steel is magnetic, but that will rarely (ever?) be found in something like chains or connectors or other toy hardware. (400 series is used in knives and some other cooking implements.) Most places that sell bird toys will have nickel-plated chain. This IS magnetic. I don't know how to tell the difference between nickel-plated and zinc-plated (other than reading the label on the product when it is new). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutMeg Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Thats the problem, the old chain ( wasn't new) and the new ones didn't have anything stating what the metal was. I'll just have to ask before buying now. Meh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Ok @ Jayd Nutmeg is just my nickname,I don't give it to my fids, no worries but thanks for the info I'm sorry but if you get to know me, I always try to add a bit of knowledge to my posts... The safest way to be [almost] sure that something is "Safe is to only by from a "Bird Safe Store"... http://www.avianweb.com/heavymetalpoisoningbirds.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutMeg Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 I will go check that link out later . thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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