KL31 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 4x4x8 (not sure if the dimensioning order is correct) is a very large space. ample room to fit a custom play gym inside with an assortment of toys. and my mom doest really mind me taking him out of the cage. she just doesnt want the cage to be in the living room. i found a website that builds custom acrlic boxes, and a 4x4x8 costs around 256 dollars. i think thats cheaper than most cages of that size. As for the lack of air flow, thats what the external electric powered air filters are for. i think i have come up with a solution that will keep my parrot happy. ignore the title, it wont be full seal. the top of the cage will be drilled with a number of small holes. near the bottom of the cage, a air purifier will be hooked up, which will constantly pull the air from outside of the cage to the inside, via the small holes drilled at the top. The purifier then pulls the air from the inside, and moves it outside, at the same time purifying the air of dust. this will create a constant supply of fresh air flow, as well as keeping the house dust free. i wish i had some sort of visual, but i think you guys could figure out what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 My point regarding the filters/airflow was in regards to a power outage (blackout). (Based on your original statement, "the roof will contain 6 air vent filters, to keep the dust out." I read that to read passive filters (some type of filter material) because of the quantity. If the power was out for a couple of hours, the air could go stale, possibly killing your bird. If you leave the holes uncovered, I would put plenty of them (maybe 3/4" - 2 cm - in diameter). Your filtration system pulls the air from the cage, creating a slight vacuum relative to the living room, so dust escaping through the ventilation holes should be minimized. I'd still like to see some holes in the bottom for airflow in the case of a power outage. (I know that you say your power is stable, but I've seen outages at many major cities in my global travels.) You are talking about a PVC play-stand. Don't just use one size of PVC. Mix in 1/2" and 3/4" as well. (It is important for birds to have different diameter perches to maintain muscle development in their feet.) Please include some natural wood perches as well. Do you have a CAG (Congo) or TAG (Timneh)? That matters because of the size difference. I'd also like to see you use a rope net, maybe hanging in the back of the cage, to replace the climbing stimulation of the cage's bars. Something like this one, maybe. All that said, you must have a large living room if you can put a 4' x 4' x 8' box in it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 There is also nothing wrong with putting the food bowl on the bottom of the cage just not under any perches to avoid droppings on the food. Use a heavy crock to keep him from tumping it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL31 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thanks for the input Doug. i will keep the info on the play gym in mind. I have a Congo, but it is actually smaller than a Timneh. I do plan on drilling MANY small holes and non of them will be covered, so in the case of a black out, he will have plenty of air. however, i dont see why i would need holes near the bottom of the cage. Having small holes on the top should provide ample air in case of a black out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 KL you want the air to vent and be exchanged on a regular basis. If you only vent the top the air will only go from one side to the other. If you have holes at the bottom and top the air will be drawn through which will allow it to mix and circulate. Wingy, KL31's design pumps the air from the bottom, through a filtration system and then back into the living room air. This pulls fresh air into the cage through the top. If there are enough holes at the top, especially on such a large enclosure, the air should be sufficiently fresh. If he/she encounters a prolonged power outage, then he/she should take the bird out of the cage and put it in the old cage, just to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thanks for the input Doug. i will keep the info on the play gym in mind. I have a Congo, but it is actually smaller than a Timneh. I do plan on drilling MANY small holes and non of them will be covered, so in the case of a black out, he will have plenty of air. however, i dont see why i would need holes near the bottom of the cage. Having small holes on the top should provide ample air in case of a black out. Use vet wrap to cover all of the surfaces of the PVC (even the elbows and caps) since PVC is VERY slippery. I, personally, am starting to look for a relatively easy method to evenly grind/sand/cut the end of natural branch so I can firmly fit it into a PVC fitting so I can mix up my perches. For when I build my BIG play-stand for the basement TV room... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I still feel very uneasy about putting a grey into an enclosed container like you all are talking about, I would not like having to say I told you so but it seems to me you could not put enough holes in it to compensate for the lack of air and being dependent on an electrical source to keep the air flowing is playing with fire and we all know playing with fire usually means we get burnt. My opinion of course but just had to voice it, now I feel better having said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoepgoed123 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) you may be better off with a hybrid cage, where the bottom of the cage is made out of plexiglass and the top half is made as a regular cage... say for example you're looking at a 6 foot tall cage (actual cage, not including base) you could do the bottom of the cage (say about 2 ft) thats made out of plexiglass, you'll have the food and water in this zone, with a door and a slide out panel to clean the stuff on the bottom, and the top 4 ft of the cage could just be regular caging material, you could hang toys and such up there. this way there will still be proper ventilation without any contraptions but then you still need to have a place for your guy to climb down, plus you need a door and a way to clean the bottom without needing to dismantle the whole thing.... this is just a general kinda idea of what I mean (plus that cage is made for degus) Edited April 3, 2012 by snoepgoed123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Ok, loads of information have been given concerning the structure of this Plexiglass enclosed 'cage'. The info that's been given has to do with the airflow, holes, design, perches. Some suggestions are better than others. Some aren't. The whole idea about making this item had to do with a person's dislike of messiness that comes with owning a parrot. No one thought about that messiness when the bird was purchased. An idea popped up concerning enclosing the bird to contain the messiness. The whole idea of doing this is cruel. No one thought about the bird. So, lets talk about the most important item here which is a live creature which needs very basic things to stay comfortable and happy with it's personality not effected. Those basic things also involve messiness Parrots, all parrots, need natural open space and natural open surroundings in which they can do basic things and ba properly. That includes climbing up the bars of a cage , climbing the inside roof of a cage, toys which can be placed in areas that a bird will feel most comfortable. Not all birds like hanging toys. Some like them on the roof, some like them on the sides. The natural ability to constantly interact with the owner which involves touching, petting, ease of ability to give the bird treats without having to move things around to give to the bird, the ability of the bird to climb in and out of the cage when it wants to is seriously hampered. A person looks at other people's ideas about the toys they give and most of those setups have to do with these items being out of the cage, on top of the cage, the sides of the cage. Look at the photos of hundreds of setups here that people have made for their birds. None include Plexiglass enclosures. Most people have playstands outside the cages for their birds to exercise on. These play stands aren't in cages but when they're on those stands and when the bird starts flapping, messiness happens and it's a natural thing to do. A bird needs areas where body strength needs to be built up. Being in a glass cage doesn't allow that because the bird doesn't have things to hold on to when he decides to do it. That includes the sides of a cage, the inner roof of a cage, the perch/perches of a cage and the outer parts of the cage--outer bars, outer roofs, outer sides of the cage. An animal needs to be allowed to do things which nature created for them. Many people start thinking that their bird isn't wild just because it now lives in a house and interacts with people. Does a person constantly keep a dog in an enclosed pen because it sheds to much? Does a person have their cat declawed because it scratches too many things in a house? Loads of people here will say that their bird is messy. They say their bird creates dander all over the place. They say that their bird flies around all the time. What do these people do when these situations happen? They realize that they need to do deal with these different things in a different way. They also laugh about the way they have to deal with things. None of these things are dealt with by putting their bird in enclosed Plexiglass containers.. Now for the perches-----parrots need all different sized thicknesses of wooden perches so their claws are constantly excersised, They need the ability to dig into things to hold on to.Pcv piping doesn't do it. They need those perches to be aimed in different directions so a bird can go up and down, left to right, diagonally. This also applies to outdoor birds who are wild. An African grey is a wild animal and will always remain wild even if lives with a person for years and years. Wild outdoor birds aren't perching on PVC piping. Now for another extremely important thing----breathing. No matter what devise is created for a totally enclosed area, the one thing those devices and inventions won't do is take the immediate dander out of a cage the minute a bird flaps it off. So what happens---the dander/dust goes up the bird's nostrils and causes breathing problems which parrots are very well known to get. The vets will constantly tell you that. And in your situation, your bird is gonna be stuck in the cage for long periods of time so all of the above and below will be even worse. And by the way, greys and cockatoos give off extreme amounts of dander. Nature has dictated that they do this. Read parrot books. Check out what they need. See what's sold in stores Remember, think twice before putting that creature in an unnatural and mental and physical setting. The bird's health and disposition are much more important than messiness. Edited April 3, 2012 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thanks Dave for your very much appreciated advice here concerning putting a grey into a plexiglass cage, if this enclosure is followed thru it is a disaster waiting to happen and the bird will suffer the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I do have one last comment to make. If you don't have the ability/time to cleanup the floor/carpet after your grey what makes you think you will have the time/ability to clean the inside of an Enclosed plexiglass cage. Just use your imagination to what a grey will do to the inside of an enclosure on a daily basic if you don't like to clean up after him everyday. Are you saying cleaning up after him in an enclosure will be easier, or just that it won't be getting all over the carpet and house just the inside of the enclosed plexiglass cage. I shudder to think of what your grey's lungs will be like. Will your mom be willing to pay all the vet bills. Frankly, I'm with your mom, if this is your grey, you are responsible to clean up after him. My children got pets when they were young to learn responsibility.... I hope you will do what is right for your grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'm not saying that I like the idea of acrylic (or plexiglass) cages, but this is not a new idea. There are plenty of them out on the market. Including full enclosures with air openings only on the top. I think that, instead of being rude to KL31, we should help to make this the best parrot environment as it can be given the situation. I think that, by attacking KL31, you will just drive him/her off and he/she will do this anyway, but without any help from those that can improve the bird's situation. Do our birds get exercise from climbing on the walls and ceilings of the cages? Of course. Will KL31's bird have that? No. So, make suggestions to give his/her bird activities! 4' x 4' x 8' can hold a lot of perches and nets and toys and activities. Let's offer ideas that will keep KL31's bird active and entertained so the bird can be in the middle of the activity in the house. KL31 seems willing to clean daily, Luvparrots, but not PERMITTED to have the mess get on the carpet at all. Yes, Dave, these things should've been considered before getting the parrot. That is water under the bridge. You don't know if KL31 and his/her parrot are well bonded and loving. This may be a temporary thing until KL31 moves out from his/her parents' home. (Unfortunately, KL31 hasn't really given us any personal information or pictures of the parrot or himself/herself so we can get personally invested...) KL31 did say that he/she would be taking the grey out. It would be good to know what he/she means by that - other playstands and/or perches? Time on the couch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 On a lighter note... Who says greys are messy? I think that's a myth... Who says parrots are messy? by shyzaboy, on Flickr Ellie's been very focused on her kabob this morning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Doug, i asked those questions and got no reply. I agree that KL31 will do what he/she wants to do with or without us but i believe this person also needs to be aware of the damage to this bird that will happen if he/she encloses it as stated. Physical health AND mental. This is a sad time for this bird because unless given the life it deserves it will only go downhill from here. It is us humans who took them from the wild to be our companions and it is up to us now to give them as much normality as we can and a life in a plastic bubble is not a life for any creature. If this person has to go to this extent to keep this bird in a living room, do you really think that they will be able to take the bird out of the bubble to play? It may flap its wings or God forbid poop if let out. I am sorry but this bird deserves a chance at a real life, as complete a life we can give to them. No one has even mentioned lighting, will this bird get a full spectrum light for the sunshine it needs, as fake as it is? Will it heat up his plastic bubble? I am trying to not offend this person in any way so they do not run away, but pacifying this person with what they want to hear instead of the truth of the damage they will be inflicting on this bird will not help anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I believe that they want to do the best possible for the bird but still comply with parents wishes, the proverbial rock and a hard place for some one not of age not in their own space. No bad intentions just problem solving-no I do not like the idea. Edited April 5, 2012 by Greywings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest XxExoticPsychExX Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I'm not very big on the whole plexi glass enclosure. However, I don't see anything wrong with making half the cage covered by plexi glass (bottom) and keeping the top as a regular bar cage. It sounds like you've put much thought into this, but a few question s I would have to ask you is: where do you live? Are your house and door windows drafty? Does it get really humid in the summer? How about year round? I'm asking those questions because my new future pets will be a pair of dart frogs (this is relevant, I swear). I've been doing so much research on them in regards to their eating habits, behaviors, enclosures, etc. For the most part, all dart frogs are kept in a glass enclosure called a vivarium. Most vivariums do have either a mesh top portion (ranging from a quarter of the top to the whole top) to their enclosure or a partial opening cut into the glass going lengthwise (ranging from about 1/4"-1" ). Just enough and done in a way to keep fruit flies (main food staple) from escaping the enclosure. Even though there are these openings at the top of the vivarium, the air inside the enclosure will get stale and there isn't much air circulation. One solution is to have fans installed at one end at the top of the cage pointed towards the inside. Obviously this will fail when there is a power failure/blackout and the air will become stale again. This happens EVEN when there are live plants in the vivarium that give off oxygen. Another problem with this set up would be the humidity levels. Dart frogs need humidity levels to be no less than 75%. This is why glass enclosures are used. Acrylic will warp with high levels of constant humidity. Dart frog owners try to ensure these levels are maintained with the use of humidifiers in the room where the vivarium is. I'm not sure how much humidity plexi glass can withstand, but if you're planning on using one and keeping it near the parrot's enclosure, you might have a problem with the plexi glass warping. Especially if you want to have humidity levels high enough to where it keeps the dander from going into the air. Also, I ask about your place of residency and about household issues because humidity during the summer or year round could also be a major problem. My home has major drafty areas. I live in Illinois where summers could get really humid. Worse case scenario: blackout + high humidity levels + no one home = parrot in big trouble. Even with the holes at the top, the air can still become stale. Remember, hot air rises and cool air descends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I don't read that anyone is being insulting here, and even if they were, do we really care MORE about the feelings of someone over a helpless bird?? Isn't our biggest concern the feeling and health of a creature that has no say in its life??? I am with many others, I feel it is cruel and this bird WILL suffer, both in health, and interaction, as someone stated cleaning a plexiglass cage will be next to impossible to keep up on. The bacteria that will accumulate on the splatters that happen when they go poop in an enclosed area is harmful....and it can't be healthy in a closed environment. Why not just stuff the bird and put it on the mantel??? Edited April 4, 2012 by Talon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSarahx Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 . It may flap its wings or God forbid poop if let out. Thats exactly what i thought when i read about it being allowed out,Archie makes a ton more mess when he is out rather than in!! Thats all iam personally saying on this matter as i was taught if i have not got anything nice to say then dont speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 There is a lot of thought being put into this. I am one who goes through talking through my thoughts in order to come to a viable solution and that is what I think you are doing, you sound like a future engineer. One question I have about the size of the cage relates to the way many parrots utilize the space. Is it 4 feet wide, 4 feet deep and 8 feet tall that you are thinking? The reason I am asking is if that is the case, your parrot may only use the top fourth of the cage, I don't know about everyone else's but many seem to be reluctant to use the lower regions. Another question, what is your parrot's name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlmuke Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I think after what I saw this weekend his idea is pretty do-able, we traveled to Indiana for Easter, we had to get some stuff from my wife's brothers father-in- law, he has an enclosed cage for his conures, it is 6' x 3' x 3'. The front is all plexiglas the sides are half cage and the bottom part is plexiglas, the back is wood with trunks and branches, the sides open up for cleaning, and the food cups sit in a stump and it has avian lights on top is is framed in wood, looks like a piece of furniture, I know he had it custom made, he couldn't remember who made it or the cost, as he is 82. I didn't have much time to look to see what the trunks and stump was made out of, but it is something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 There is a lot of thought being put into this. I am one who goes through talking through my thoughts in order to come to a viable solution and that is what I think you are doing, you sound like a future engineer. One question I have about the size of the cage relates to the way many parrots utilize the space. Is it 4 feet wide, 4 feet deep and 8 feet tall that you are thinking? The reason I am asking is if that is the case, your parrot may only use the top fourth of the cage, I don't know about everyone else's but many seem to be reluctant to use the lower regions. Another question, what is your parrot's name? 4' x 4' x 8' high is the space where I have Ellie's playstand in my office. She uses 80% of the vertical space. (Although she spends a majority of her time in the middle 50%.) She has a boing descending from the ceiling and various perches on the playstand. Ellie's playstand only covers about a quarter of the footprint (2' x 2' base). You could fit a very large and complex playstand in that amount of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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