My personal adventure

[Joe Bachi]

This is the story of how I got Mikko and all the events that have happened since, I am publishing it because I believe that it may be helpful to some people who might be going through the same situation I was in.

 

My name is Joe and I live in Lebanon. Last year I decided to buy a CAG for a pet, so I did all my research and went to many different pet shops trying to find the perfect grey.

Unfortunately, none of these greys fit descriptions on the internet, they were ALL wild caught and they only imported mature(yellow iris) or semi-mature(white iris) parrots because the young fids needed much more attention and were therefore considered a bad investment.

Of course there was always the option of buying one online and having it imported, but the costs were far beyond my budget.

So I ended up buying a grey from a pet shop that had me wait 4 weeks for the parrots to be imported.

As I later discovered, Mikko (my parrot) was a wild caught parrot (with pale yellow irises) smuggled from the Nigerian forests and into Lebanon. Most of his wing feathers were either broken or damaged beyond repair due to the aggressive way in which he was caught and handled.

When I went to the pet shop to pick him up(on June 6th 2011), there were four cages on the floor each containing a frightened Grey.

The first screamed at the top of it's lungs every time I got near the cage along with two others who would start to scream as soon as they heard the first one.

Mikko stood out as the one grey who was quiet all this time and looked the calmest, so I chose him thinking that he might be more cooperative in training.

By the third day I was already feeding him seeds through the bars of his cage, and come day four he was eating out of my hand while inside his cage.

From then on things progressed slowly as I tried may different ways to get him to step up without really knowing what I was doing.

I did make some progress however as he was soon stepping on my gloved hand(since he had been unexpectedly biting at the time) and I was able to get him out of the cage and back in.

During August, I took Mikko with me when I started to go stay with my parents every other day in our country house(a 40 min drive) and he adapted rather well to the car ride (he would shred the newspaper at the bottom of his cage) and to the new setting (the other house).

Things changed however when I got him a bigger cage and tried to transfer him. He was able to escape and fly off into the nearby land where there were a few trees and bushes, and after a 5 hour chase, my dad and I were finally able to capture him and bring him back home.

I was surprised to find that Mikko wasn't affected by this dramatic incident and showed no aggression or fear towards me or my father.

It was at that time that I purchased a bird training DVD set and started using their techniques.

Fast forward five and a half months and here I am having a good relationship with Mikko who steps onto my bare hands without biting(but only does so when in his cage), allows me to clip his nails while perching in his cage, and sometimes tries to talk and say his own name (when I am out of sight).

My goal now is to get him to exit his cage and enter my room where I am sure the training will go faster and more efficiently.

 

In conclusion, I believe that a wild grey can be tamed, but such a thing requires much hard work and dedication.

Though if I personally had the option of buying an in-captivity bred baby grey, I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

 

 

 

 

Regards

Joe

 

 

PS:Comments are welcomed, lectures on how I should have acted and accusations of me being a bad grey owner who is selfish and hates his pet are not

(Sorry if it sounded rude but I have been down this road once and I don't wish to go there again)

Edited March 11, 2012 by Joe Bachi

[Dave007]

Concerning your PS paragraph, why did people do that? In your story I didn't see anything cruel or anything about being a bad grey owner or being selfish or hating pets. Someone did this to you here? Sounded like a great story to me other than the part about the smuggling. That's been going on for years but lots of good things are being changed out there concerning that problem. I even posted a long video about what's now going on. Lots of people here were happy that progress is finally be made. So, maybe you can explain?

 

Check out the video

 

Edited March 11, 2012 by Dave007

[Joe Bachi]

Concerning your PS paragraph, why did people do that? In your story I didn't see anything cruel or anything about being a bad grey owner or being selfish or hating pets. Someone did this to you here? Sounded like a great story to me other than the part about the smuggling. That's been going on for years but lots of good things are being changed out there concerning that problem. I even posted a long video about what's now going on. Lots of people here were happy that progress is finally be made. So, maybe you can explain?

 

Check out the video

 

 

I'd rather not, it's all water under the bridge now, but I just wanted to be safe (thanks for caring though)

[Dave007]

Ok, whatever you say is fine. Anyway, enjoy the video.

[Talon]

This was a difficult read for me.....I hate the fact that this is done to these poor innocent creatures.......too sad for my heart to think about....

 

 

Say what you want, but since I alone can't stop this, it pains me to know it still goes on in the world, and I prefer to only partially stick my head out of the sand...

[Mistyparrot]

To me catching and selling wild caught parrots is as bad as human slavery. So although there are laudable efforts to stop this deplorable trade, our poor parrots are still being decimated in the wild. For as long as there is a market for wild court parrots this evil trade will continue.

On the one hand I am glad you have given a safe haven to your parrot but the fact that you bought a smuggled bird will encourage the trade to continue. Perhaps in return you could lobby your political representativs or you religious leaders to help bring the trade in wild caught birds in Lebanon to an end. Some might say these are Gods creatures so they should be treated with the respect they are due as such. Why would God respect those who disrespect his gifts to the world?

 

Steve n Misty

[judygram]

Joe I can see how people may have reacted to your statement that you took in a wild caught bird and even though I am totally against this practice I am glad you gave Mikko a good home but this is exactly why this practice continues, as long as there is someone who will buy them they will continue to go out into the forests and capture these birds who were meant to be free. If everyone who wants a grey will only go the route of breeders then this market will only continue to go on. End of lecture.

I think what you have done with Mikko is great but it has been a long slow process that continues but I don't think he will ever forget the wild.

[Joe Bachi]

To all of you who want to help the situation and stop the smuggling of parrots I give you a solution:

Talk is cheap............................parrots are not so if you want to help you can try to send me 2 breeding couples so that I can become the first local breeder in Lebanon and perhaps inspire others to do the same and stop this corrupted business.

I would have loved to do this on my own but I'm still a student which means I have no job which means I have no money.

And as some of you may know, Lebanon is not exactly the richest country in the world and unfortunately my family is simply middle class.

So in an attempt to actually do some changes in this world I hope to see you all cooperate with me since writing on this forum alone will never really accomplish any real major goals

Regards

Joe

[Talon]

What an idea! A good one, however, you can not ship birds outside the US and into Lebanon.....HOWEVER. talking and enlightening others that these practices still go on every day here on this forum or any other, can only HELP people to motivate one another and do what we can to stop this practice.. Sitting here silently and making impossible wishes do nothing to help the cause.

 

Just to set the record straight, many of us here are working lower middle class as well. Don't think we are wealthy just because we have an african gey. Many of us RESCUED them for little or no money....

[Joe Bachi]

What an idea! A good one, however, you can not ship birds outside the US and into Lebanon.....HOWEVER. talking and enlightening others that these practices still go on every day here on this forum or any other, can only HELP people to motivate one another and do what we can to stop this practice.. Sitting here silently and making impossible wishes do nothing to help the cause.

 

Just to set the record straight, many of us here are working lower middle class as well. Don't think we are wealthy just because we have an african gey. Many of us RESCUED them for little or no money....

 

Well in my case I bought Mikko for 300 $ which may not seem much at first but just keep in mind that the salary I got from my summer job working with kids in a summer camp for one and a half months was 400 $ (and that's because I had two years of experience... my first ever paycheck was a mere 350 $)

[Dave007]

This is a very confusing thread. I have no idea how a new local breeder who's inexperienced will help anything. Even you say that the economy is bad in your country so who would wanna buy parrots unless they were at a very low price? The breeder needs money back because of all that was spent. Because you have very little money, there would be no way to set up a breeding program. The equipment alone may cost a small fortune. People who breed greys have to first be apprentices much like the specialty woodworker who has an apprentice. Breeding greys or other large parrots isn't like breeding budgies or canaries or finches

No one would give away breeders in order to prove a point in another country. Breeders cost a lot of money and they're special types of birds. Their specialty starts when they're very, very young. Breeders are not *wild* parrots. They're simply parrots who have never bonded with people. They've bonded to each other from the time they were very young and are able to produce excellent chicks. The amount of chicks that they produce is very small. I have 3 pairs of breeders and none of them have ever lived in the wild. As far as exporting birds, there's a person named Shanlung who periodically visits us here and he can tell just how difficult it to bring his bird from one part of China to another part of China.

I truly think that if there's some type of point you're trying to make through experiments with one the most difficult parrots to deal with ( let me add to that----all medium to large parrots are extremely difficult to deal with) , you should visit the European bird boards that still deal with smuggling and illegal capturing of wild birds. Here in the US, that doesn't exist. Here in the US, it's even difficult to bring a bird from state to state.

Not only would I never give away my breeders, I won't sell them either even after they're not used for breeding anymore.

We have many members here from other countries and the things they want to know about are how to care for, feed, house, environment surroundings, socializition of their birds. The other thing they ask about is whether anyone here knows of private breeders in their country. That's not something we can help them with.

I think that if you create some type of adoption situation or area, that may be good but again, experience is needed to do that. Breeding more parrots in a poor country that likes the idea of smuggling won't prove anything.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Dave007

[Mistyparrot]

To all of you who want to help the situation and stop the smuggling of parrots I give you a solution:

Talk is cheap............................parrots are not so if you want to help you can try to send me 2 breeding couples so that I can become the first local breeder in Lebanon and perhaps inspire others to do the same and stop this corrupted business.

Aside from the fact that there are all kinds of legal obstacles exporting parrots to Lebanon or anywhere for that matter It takes great deal time and not a little money to set up as a breeder of parrots. Even if I had the money to send you a breading pair I have no idea if you are capable of devoting the time to do the job properly and it would do little to solve the problem. I prefer to give what money I can afford to the World Parrot Trust an organisation that has done sterling work in rescuing wild caught parrots and then helping with rehabilitation and release back to the wild. If you would like to help go to http://www.parrots.org/

 

Steve n Misty

Edited March 13, 2012 by Mistyparrot

[Joe Bachi]

As I said before talk is cheap, lecturing is cheaper.

When there's a will there's a way.

*Still ignoring the evident rudeness and under-estimation in past posts *

Regards

Joe

 

 

Sometimes this place feels like some sort of a cult where outsiders are prone to attacks and ambushes every second....

Edited March 12, 2012 by Joe Bachi

[Mistyparrot]

Joe nobody here is attacking you. All of us here love parrots and will do what we can to give good homes to any that we can. You have seen for yourself the horrible condition the wild caught parrots are kept in but breeding large parrots is not something you can just jump into. It is expensive not just for the breeding pair but also for the veterinary help, special foods, equipment and time. Lots of time! I am sure nobody here thought you were really begging for someone to send you breeding pairs! No one here would send any to anyone they did not personally know, where ever they are. This forum is a repository of the combined experience of all the members and if advice is asked for it will be given. You invited comments and nobody here has criticised your acquisition of a wild parrot. I think we are all glad you have taken it from a bad situation. We, or at least I, assumed that you would like to do something to help the cause of preventing wild parrot trading. Apparently what you now imply is you want a free breeding pair. That will not help and it won't happen for the reasons already explained.

You seem to take offence where none was intended and I am sorry for that. "Outsiders" are always welcome here. We were all outsiders once.

 

Steve n Misty

[aerial.2000]

What an idea! A good one, however, you can not ship birds outside the US and into Lebanon.....HOWEVER. talking and enlightening others that these practices still go on every day here on this forum or any other, can only HELP people to motivate one another and do what we can to stop this practice.. Sitting here silently and making impossible wishes do nothing to help the cause.

 

Just to set the record straight, many of us here are working lower middle class as well. Don't think we are wealthy just because we have an african gey. Many of us RESCUED them for little or no money....

lol that fits me WELL... thats why I am definately tryin to be more creative to make stands and toys and things for my new baby! cuz it does get expensive!

[Joe Bachi]

Joe nobody here is attacking you. All of us here love parrots and will do what we can to give good homes to any that we can. You have seen for yourself the horrible condition the wild caught parrots are kept in but breeding large parrots is not something you can just jump into. It is expensive not just for the breeding pair but also for the veterinary help, special foods, equipment and time. Lots of time! I am sure nobody here thought you were really begging for someone to send you breeding pairs! No one here would send any to anyone they did not personally know, where ever they are. This forum is a repository of the combined experience of all the members and if advice is asked for it will be given. You invited comments and nobody here has criticised your acquisition of a wild parrot. I think we are all glad you have taken it from a bad situation. We, or at least I, assumed that you would like to do something to help the cause of preventing wild parrot trading. Apparently what you now imply is you want a free breeding pair. That will not help and it won't happen for the reasons already explained.

You seem to take offence where none was intended and I am sorry for that. "Outsiders" are always welcome here. We were all outsiders once.

 

Steve n Misty

 

I don't want a free breeding pair, all I want is for the people who are making statements to put there money where their mouth is.

I was 100% sure that no one was going to send me a pair (which btw I didn't even want) and you all proved me right.

So in conclusion, I would like to thank you for helping me prove my point.

[Greywings]

this thread is all twisty but cohesive, perhaps the challenge of using written language leaves out the body language and facial expressions the would perhaps make thing seem less threatening and more concerned. When all you have to choose from are wild caught it does not leave much room for obtaining your bird. that said it seems you are doing your best to make friends and build trust with a wild bird-so good on you and you can make a difference even just converting one other persons mindset where you live. The best to you and Mikko.

[Talon]

I don't want a free breeding pair, all I want is for the people who are making statements to put there money where their mouth is.

I was 100% sure that no one was going to send me a pair (which btw I didn't even want) and you all proved me right.

So in conclusion, I would like to thank you for helping me prove my point.

 

Of course no one here would send you a breeding pair. You are out of our mind thinking otherwise. FYI, as administrator, I don't take kindly to someone playing games here with our members. It was a cruel joke. What did it accomplish in proving your point? You were given excellent advice, that is the only thing accomplished here, but you discard it. Anyone with common sense would KNOW that your request is impossible from any other country, AND anyone even considering filling your request would be stupid as you have zero experience in breeding and don't have the funds to do it.

 

Please continue to post as the valued member that you are, but if you post a topic, you do so with the understanding that you will get a variety of advice and opinions, like it or not.

[Talon]

As I said before talk is cheap, lecturing is cheaper.

When there's a will there's a way.

*Still ignoring the evident rudeness and under-estimation in past posts *

Regards

Joe

 

 

Sometimes this place feels like some sort of a cult where outsiders are prone to attacks and ambushes every second....

 

If you think this way, you need to go back and read the thousands and thousands of posts here. You will see that EVERYONE is treated with dignity and respect, that is our motto here and always has been.

 

Funny you think we don't like "outsiders" as this forum is international, members from every country possible and is based in ISRAEL.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Talon

[Mistyparrot]

I don't want a free breeding pair, all I want is for the people who are making statements to put there money where their mouth is.

I was 100% sure that no one was going to send me a pair (which btw I didn't even want) and you all proved me right.

So in conclusion, I would like to thank you for helping me prove my point.

 

Joe I don't see what your point is. You say you wanted no one to send you parrots and no one would or could anyway. I have already told you I donate money to http://www.parrots.org/ and so do other forum members. It is a very effective way and achieves tangible results.

 

 

 

 

Steve n Misty

Edited March 13, 2012 by Mistyparrot

[birdhouse]

I lurked on this forum for years before I posted anything because I was so afraid to admit that I had a wild caught grey. Knowing the majority sentiment, I expected to be received exactly like Joe has been. I could never have continued to be an active member of this or any forum if I had been on the receiving end of half of what Joe has.

 

No one has ever said anything to me about Phenix being wild caught. I would have said that it's because I learned the error of my ways & became an advocate. But no one is climbing all over Shanlung for waxing poetic about Libai, Jackie, Yingshiong & the legendary Riamfada. Nor should they. But that's confusing to me because he very obviously has the choice, seems to prefer to keep wild caughts & is a very true believer that stopping the wild bird trade is very, very bad.

 

Joe can't start a breeding program & single handedly affect the bird trade in Africa & the Middle East, let alone change it. The point is that some members continue to react to his posts as though he can & should. Not as if he were a school kid who's trying to do the best he can w/a less than perfect situation.

 

What he can & has done is openly discussed a situation that who knows how many silent GF readers are facing. His insights could potentially help transition who knows how many wild greys. If members could focus on that, they could help save so many greys who might never become adapted otherwise. Joe & Mikko represent a huge (much needed) opportunity to save countless more wild greys who would be lost simply from lack of available information.

 

What's done is done. Nothing's going to change what has already happened. At what point has Joe earned the right to be comfortable to post openly about his & Mikko's progress & be given the same support as any other member w/a "special" bird??

 

People have said what they felt they needed to say about Mikko's being wild caught. Each thread may be an opportunity to make a statement to other members going forward. But the important thing now is the dedication & love that Joe so obviously has for Mikko. I think it's in the least unfair to Joe, or any other reader who has a wild caught fid, to continue to focus on the wild caught issue instead of individual concerns & progress.

 

Joe's obviously learned a lot since he's gotten Mikko. He's also beaten some pretty big odds to achieve what he has so far. Even though he continues to face so much criticism from this community, he continues here to learn more for Mikko's benefit. He obviously cares a great deal about his fid. Joe has earned legitimacy as a grey parront so it should be the focus of the response to his posts.

[Talon]

Birdhouse, nowhere do I see that Joe is being "criticized" for his decision. Some of us are SUGGESTING that perhaps with patience, he would not have to go that route. Ultimately, it is his decision, and one that I would Respect, even if I wish he could do things differently. NEVER have I seen a member COME DOWN on someone for their choices. I find these members here to be VERY respectful of others and their different opinions and situations. it is the WAY he was playing with us that I find offensive...

 

Many members here have a wild caught grey.......I don't see a problem anywhere in the threads here with that. I DO see that some that have a wild caught are VERY sensitive and don't take kindly to anyone speaking their opinions about how they feel...

[birdhouse]

If I posted something about Phenix & most of the members responded w/much more about the wild bird trade than any issue I'd hoped to address, I'd really feel badly. But I would like to think that I could see their need to initially make a point about something that they felt so passionate about & accept it. If many of the same members continued to address the wild bird trade vs my individual reasons for posting, then I think I would eventually feel alienated.

 

Assuming that I had the intestinal fortitude to continue as an active member, it would probably be because I was hoping that at some point, I would have become an individual & member of the GF family that I've read about. But if this many months had gone by & members couldn't accept my situation, I'd be hurt & frustrated enough to have been driven off.

 

I feel very strongly about the wild bird trade & I will continue to do whatever I can to help save these birds.

 

I also feel very strongly that once these greys reach captivity & have no chance of being returned to the wild, we continue to have a responsibility to do everything possible to save them. If they have any chance to transition to a healthy life, they need special handling to keep them from being added to the already appalling statistics.

 

Keeping many hundreds of wild birds from living miserably until they die in captivity is not promoting the wild trade. The way I see it, it's the only humane thing to do until we can stop the carnage all together.

 

Leaving owners, who for whatever reason have acquired these birds, to fend for themselves is sad & certain death for most of these birds. If members could make that the priority & focus, more information would become available & more birds would be saved.

Edited March 13, 2012 by birdhouse

[Luvparrots]

 

I also feel very strongly that once these greys reach captivity & have no chance of being returned to the wild, we continue to have a responsibility to do everything possible to save them. If they have any chance to transition to a healthy life, they need special handling to keep them from being added to the already appalling statistics.

 

Keeping many hundreds of wild birds from living miserably until they die in captivity is not promoting the wild trade. The way I see it, it's the only humane thing to do until we can stop the carnage all together.

 

Leaving owners, who for whatever reason have acquired these birds, to fend for themselves is sad & certain death for most of these birds. If members could make that the priority & focus, more information would become available & more birds would be saved.

 

I agree, if I located a wild caught grey/zon/whatever, I would purchase it if possible and care for it to the best of my ability until I found a better solution. I can't believe that the members of this Grey Forum would not support and help me to the best of their ability. Isn't that what we do when one of us rescues/adopts a needy grey. You can't solve a problem by ignoring it/walking on/or closing your eyes because what you see is wrong.

[Life is Greyt]

I'm not sure how involved I want to get in this conversation however, I wanted to say that I don't think anyone has condemned Joe or come down on him for having a wild caught grey. Others only suggested a viable way to help stop the wild caught bird trade, besides an inexperienced breeder starting to breed. Then, as others have said, the thread got a little weird. I think all involved here are doing what they think is right for greys. Yes, there's passion behind it because we are all passionate people about animals. The issue was not whether or not anyone has a wild caught grey, the issue has become the weirdness of asking for a breeding pair and then saying that it was only done to prove a point. No point was made, nor proven.