African Grey + Future Baby?

[AmyJ]

I really debated about posting this thread but I believe I understand the responsibility and commitment involved with owning an African Grey - and moreover- I wanted to ask the experts on this forum my questions, i.e. all the wonderful owners.

 

So here goes:

 

I have been researching (bought books, reading website, stalking this forum) adding an African Grey to our family for 4 years now. I am in my early 30's, been married very happily for 5 years and settled in our home. I am a housewife and an artist and we already have 2 cats (dsh & manx) and 2 dogs (lab and chihuahua). Everything is currently harmonious and we have a happy, settled home.

 

Although I am not sure I can understand clearly what it is like to specifically own an African grey, I have had parrots in the past (quakers, parakeets) and I know about the noise, mess, training, biting, loving, independence, etc.

 

My husband and I do want to have children in the future, however, that is not going to happen in at least the next year or two. Thankfully I have read many forum threads about couples having birds + babies and making it all work wonderfully as long as the people are committed, caring and understand the needs associated with having an intelligent, wonderful companion bird.

 

I have been browsing aviaries for years and am aware there are people who will not place parrots in home with couple who have not started their family yet. I also clearly understand that many people rehome their greys once they are pregnant and feel they cannot shoulder the burden of new baby and African Grey. I know myself and since I am home already and enjoy all of my animals, I do not believe this would be an issue.

 

I am not looking for black & white answers but really advice and your thoughts on the subject. These birds are so long lived, I would think they would have to be encouraged to adapt to their surroundings and new people. Would it be so wrong to adopt an African Grey before we start our human family?

 

Please let me know what you think and thank you in advance for your constructive thoughts.

[Dave007]

Well first off. I have no idea why you needed to debate with yourself about posting your message. Everyone starts somewhere. Nothing you're inquiring about is difficult to answer. Loads and loads and loads of people have many special talents. Example--you're an artist. So, I'll comment on what you just asked about and as you ask more, than more answers will come your way.

 

You're an ideal age to buy a grey becuse of their long life span.

It's great that you wanna have children in the future and as long as you keep in mind that your grey will need the same amount of attention that you start off with, there's no problem. Some pweople decide that they have little time when a child comes along but you know the situation because of past bird ownership. The other pets help. The pets must be allowed to get used to the bird so you need to be vigilant for a while and study the situation.

 

***people rehome their greys once they are pregnant and feel they cannot shoulder the burden of new baby and African Grey. I know myself and since I am home already and enjoy all of my animals, I do not believe this would be an issue.****

 

I'll say it again. I don't see problems because you know what the word ***responsibility*** to pets means.

 

You'll need to get your husband involved with the bird from the beginning in order for the bird to like you both.It's called socializing. Concerning children----many people already have kids when they buy a grey. The grey doesn't like having to put up with children's erractic quick behavior so the people have to amend their habits.

There's nothing black and white about owning animals. There's 2 types of animals. One is domestic and the other is wild. Parrots of any species are wild animals and will always remain so. So when the time comes, your ideas about that type of animal may need to be adjusted. That's one of the reason this board exists. We cover thousands of subjects so it's up to you to get involved in the board.

Your situation concerning kids is good becvause your kid will grow up with the bird being around. They'll be no amending needed. It's the same way a kid comes into the world with a dog around. Usually, that kid grows up and has a dog all his/her life.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Dave007

[AmyJ]

Thank you for your candor and gracious reply, Dave! (I love your avatar pic)

 

It's just always tough being the new kid and my question touches on a sensitive subject for a lot of folks. I completely agree, you never know unless you participate and ask! Thank you for reminding me.

 

My husband is 100% on board though he is the one who works and I am at home making me the primary caregiver- we both agree he must still be involved and want to be involved. We been looking at aviaries and discussing everything as we move forward so I keep him informed and prepared to be a new parront. We both really excited about the prospect of adoption.

 

I actually felt a lot of clarification to my general, sweeping question after writing the initial post. I know this is something I/we want but it's also a great responsibility so I am trying to be as careful as possible with the aviary selection and throughout the entire process. The research continues! If anyone has additional information or suggestions for breeders, books (I already have For the Love of Greys and The Healthy Bird Cookbook.), etc I would love to know them. I will of course check all the relevant forum threads but if there is anything specific information- I'd love to know.

 

Thanks again~

[Luvparrots]

Hi Amy, now you are the "type" of people I like to see! You have started your research before becoming a grey parront! Hooray. You are going to be a great grey parront! When I first came to the Grey Forums, I had never even touched a parrot and knew nothing about them except I wanted one. Dave007 was the first member here that I "met" and I have learned oodles from him and all the experienced members here. No question is "stupid". It was three months before my grey was weaned and I absorbed all the information I could here and felt quite comfortable when Ana Grey first came home 3 1/2 years ago. As for stupid questions I remember one of mine. "How much gravel was necessary for a grey?" I believe was my question. Did anyone laugh or harass me no! For that I am grateful as I sure needed some help!!! So ask away and I can't wait to see your grey!

[Dave007]

As far as buying the bird-------

First off, private breeders. There's good ones and bad ones. A good breeder will want to kerep the bird until it's fully weaned before selling the bird. That's the ideal situation. That breeder should allow acustomer to visit with the chick periodically to see the bird grow up into being a sellable bird. Weaning usually happens between 14 to 18/19./20 wks old until weaning is complete. There's no exact # I can give because all the birds are slightly different even in one clutch.

That breeder will offer a certain amount of time for you to take the bird to a vet to get a *well check*. If there's a problem, a warranty/guarantee/exchange is used. Many breeders already have that done so the person doesn't have to. Ok, that's basically a good breeder.

A bad breeder---will allow or even goad a person into taking an unweaned bird home. The breeder tells the person that hand feeding is no big deal which is untrue. The *well check* is useless because a bird must be fully developed so the vet can give a complete work up on the bird. Certain areas need to be developed before an exam so if a bird can't get a full exam there's a chance that as the bird gets a little older, a problem shows up and the person needs to get the problem fixed which can be expensive.

Commercially sold birds---those are birds sold in pet stores and there's no way of knowing what shape the parents are in. Equate that to a *puppy mill*. The pups are great looking but quality is bad and eventually it shows up. Plus, in pet stores, the price is much higher. Many times, the pet shop worker won't even know much about the species. I've taught a few people about greys and how to handle them in Petsmart. Usually, the employees are young and inexperienced.

So, basically, that's the choice you have. It's up to the person to make their choice. We do tell people who need to go quite a distance to buy a bird from a breeder to do that because it's a big $ investment and a person should get what they pay for even though it may be inconvient to do it.

Personally, my feelings about buying a bird unseen and shipped to a person is a no no but others may disagree.

So, keep asking and you'll learn more.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Dave007

[AmyJ]

@Dave: Abundance weaning, fledging, and socialization are all characteristics I have been looking for. I've additionally been looking for breeders who either focus or solely breed African Greys and someplace close to home because I would rather drive to pick up the baby, if possible. I do not want to go the pet store route- I know it works for some and that's great but it's just my preference to work with a breeder instead. I'll link you to the aviary I've been looking into. I've just sent my first mail to them and am waiting to get a read- their information and reviews are good so far but if you see any flags, I'd love to know about it. (if you have time and/or are interested)

 

http://www.africangreyparrotbreeders.com

 

Thank you as always!

 

@ Iluvparrots: Thank you for the encouragement! Whenever I think about taking on another life and the responsibility of it, I always get a little wobbly in the knees. I know it will be a lot of work - all animals are - but greys are so beautifully unique and fascinating, I'd love to have one as a family member. By the way, your first question made me smile. Cheers to you for persevering through the initial questions- now I have someone to look up to and ask questions: all because of your courage and quest for knowledge. I look forward to seeing you on the forums. (also I love Lily!)

[oblivion]

AmyJ, first, welcome. Second, I LOVE that you are asking questions while planning, instead of after buying.

 

Third, I will offer a little bit of my story, not to convince you one way or the other, since I don't know you, your situation, etc., but just to give you something to think about.

 

Since I was about 5, Iv'e wanted a macaw. I had parakeets and loads of reptiles as a kid, but never pressed for a bigger parrot because I KNEW I was not ready for one. I was lucky enough to have a family friend with several parrots and I learned early what expense and time was required to keep them happy. Years later, when my now-wife and I had our first apartment together, we set out looking for a pet one day, and my love for birds was re-ignited. We ended up with our 'tiel, Anya, and since then we have planned that 'one day' we will have a macaw. Admittedly, I nearly impulse-bought a severe while we were still apartment-dwelling, but luckily sanity (e.g. my wife) won out.

 

When we eventually moved into our house in 2003, I envisioned where a huge macaw cage would go, I planned where the play stands would be, and we set up a 'pet room' for Anya and Nimue (budgie) as well as the two bunnies. I got more involved in macaw forums and continued to plan. Having a new house, we also soon had our first Labrador (I grew up with them and getting one was inevitable). One day, circa 2004, in some macaw forum or another, I posted a question very similar to yours. I mentioned the adequate space, research I'd done, acceptance of the HUGE responsibility, existing puppy, and planned kids. Much to my surprise, among the responses I got was one VERY blunt man who basically said I was an idiot for even THINKING of getting a macaw. He said to raise my puppy first and figure out the kid thing before ever revisiting the idea of a macaw.

 

Honestly, it PISSED me off, though I refrained from engaging in a 'YOU DON'T KNOW ME!' flame-war, remembering that I'd ASKED for opinions. But really, 8 years later, despite the delivery, I still believe the guy was right. We had our first (and perhaps only) kid in 2006, a kitten shortly before and another puppy shortly after that (along with the 2 rabbits and 2 birds) and honestly, sanity was hard to hang on to. Having a child around (and remember I'm 'just' the father, no breast-feeding, etc., for me) was like NOTHING anyone could have prepared me for. I'm VERY glad I did not have a young macaw to look after at the same time.

 

We acquired our TAG, Spencer, as a re-home after our budgie died in 2010. Anya and I were both missing her and I'd started to mention to a few friends that I was ready for another bird. Spencer's owner was looking for a more attentive/entertaining home for him, and I was looking for a bird. I'd never planned on having a Grey, but it just worked out. As, some might argue, it was 'meant to,' but even that's more moralizing than I like to do.

 

My now-5-year-old is also enchanted by macaws and I still plan to have one some day. When the time is right for us. Maybe that'll be when she's in high school, or maybe a bird in need will come along sooner than that, but I'm no longer in a rush.

 

Whatever you decide, I look forward to hearing your story and learning right along with you. Best wishes.

[AmyJ]

Much to my surprise, among the responses I got was one VERY blunt man who basically said I was an idiot for even THINKING of getting a macaw. He said to raise my puppy first and figure out the kid thing before ever revisiting the idea of a macaw.

 

Honestly, it PISSED me off, though I refrained from engaging in a 'YOU DON'T KNOW ME!' flame-war, remembering that I'd ASKED for opinions. But really, 8 years later, despite the delivery, I still believe the guy was right. We had our first (and perhaps only) kid in 2006, a kitten shortly before and another puppy shortly after that (along with the 2 rabbits and 2 birds) and honestly, sanity was hard to hang on to. Having a child around (and remember I'm 'just' the father, no breast-feeding, etc., for me) was like NOTHING anyone could have prepared me for. I'm VERY glad I did not have a young macaw to look after at the same time.

 

Thank you for the welcome and the advice. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to share your story- nothing is more valuable than precious life experience. So much of what you say also rings true for me as well! I am glad you continue to share on forums- flame wars can and do turn people off from ever participating. It's a shame, really, and amazing how the written words can hold so much subtext by the slang and attitude people use when writing. I only hear warmth and a good heart through your story and I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

 

There's more to my story as far as having children is concerned but it's really TMI for this nature of this forum. Sufficed to say I may or may not have children in the future but I didn't want to... compromise one or the other? Well, that and life hadn't slowed down until about 2 years ago after we had been in our home for a year. It's nice to be able to even consider adding a beautiful and intelligent companion like an grey to our family. I'll just life vicariously through everyone on here until it can happen.

 

I am sorry to hear about your budgie but happy you've not given up on your dream- it's one I am more than sure you will realize!

[oblivion]

I'm so glad you read my story in the spirit in which it was intended. I try not to preach - unless someone is doing something clearly wrong, of course.

 

As for having children or not, and TMI, I bet that's another area where our long stories ring similar. I hope things work out for you.

 

And you may be interested to know that the forum with the blunt guy is no longer active. I'm not saying it was because of him, but I like to pretend it is.

 

Thanks for your comment about Nim. We were just telling stories about her to our daughter last night. She was a goof who wore her bell as a hat and once fed her foot like it was a baby. Interestingly, she died of a reproductive tumor or cyst. "Fine" one day, dead in the emergency vet's office two days later. These creatures can really break your heart.

 

Again, welcome. You seem like the type of person who could make just about any situation work. List out your pros and cons, come up with backup plans, and decide with your head as much as your heart, and I bet things will work out to your satisfaction.

 

Best wishes.

 

PS, my wife's name is Amy.

[Talon]

AmyJ,welcome to our family! Kudos to you for doing such extensive research and for putting such thought into this lifetime decision. Many don't... and their bird suffers the consequences of that. Although I have 4 kids, all teens, I didn't get our parrots until about 7 years ago. I can not offer any advice about having a parrot and a baby. I only know that for me, and my lifestyle at that time, ( husband worked ALL the time and I was left to raise my kids alone) I would not have been able to be a good parront to my birds or my kids. But as the others said, it canbe done and done in a healthy way IF you are committed to a lifetime of being a grey owner, no matter what.

Can't wait to hear more from you, and PLEASE never be afraid to ask any questions. We are very helpful, respectful and kind members, and love to build our family. There is no question that is too silly!

[Luvparrots]

Amy, my kids are all in the 40s so I have no babies but I do have young grandsons. The youngest is just 2 1/2 years so I have watched him with my parrots flying around. Ana Grey my oldest grey is very jealous but for some reasons understands babies. When I first started babysitting my grandson I was very leery of Ana Grey's reaction. I talked to Ana Grey and told her Dino was special (he was born 3 months premature) so she needed to be very nice. When I would feed Dino his formula, Ana Grey would quietly sit on the back of my rocker and watch. Not a sound not any threatening action. She just watched and listened. It was quite interesting to watch her reaction and her understanding. When I got my second grey, Sterling's breeder gave me instructions on offering Sterling formula in the evenings just in case he needed it. I had a talk with Ana Grey about not bothering Sterling while I fed him. Ana Grey, who is always close to me, watched me intently and I carefully watched her as she is not a fan of competition for my attention. I was nicely surprised when Ana Grey quietly sat on my shoulder as I spoon fed Sterling his night time formula. Not a peep, when I was finished (Sterling really didn't care for the formula) I would give Ana Grey spoonfuls of the formula and she was delighted. What I mean to tell you is that my aggressive Ana Grey and she is aggressive and fearless, is a totally different parrot when it comes to babies and young pets. I truly believe that greys are very intuitive and really want to please their parronts. If you talk to them and really let them know what you expect and want, our greys do their darnedest to please.

 

So when you do decide to have human babies, just make sure you give quality time to both the human child and your grey and all will be fine. Greys can adjust, you just need to talk to them and show them what you want. They are intuitive but they can't read your mind.

[Life is Greyt]

AmyJ, I felt the same way you do before I finally found the right breeder and put down a deposit. My BF and I have been together for 4 years. We own a home together, and, between us, have 3 dogs, a cat, and an Alligator Gar in the fishtank. I did all the research I could upfront, just like you're doing, and it made all the difference in the world. We both work, he works 12s and I work 2 jobs, so I wanted to be sure that we would be able to care for a Grey appropriately. Long story short, we have had our baby, Chickie, home since December and she is the light of my life. I find that I treat her much like a child. Most of my misplaced maternal instinct that I have-as that lovely "biological clock" ticks away-is lavished on Chickie. I love to bathe her every other day and play with her, etc. I take her from room to room with me and she stays on her perch while I clean, etc. Whether or not we have kids down the line, I know that all our animals will stay with us because they are already like furry children to us. It sounds like to me that you and your husband are the same way, and you're already taking the right steps to ensure that a grey will fit into your family's lifestyle. As Dave007 said, the right breeder makes all the difference in the world between getting a happy, healthy, socialized baby and one that's not. So, I wish you the best of luck on the right baby finding you, since they do pick us, and welcome to the forum!!!

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

AmyJ, I don't see why you couldn't be fantastic parents before having children! As long as you learn to socialize your bird to develop relationships with other people, there would be no reason your bird couldn't learn to love children. If you have read the book "Marley and me", it is the same thing! The dog came home first, then the kids. It works the same, for a grey! Nancy