Setbacks

[Joe Bachi]

Hey guys,

It's been a while now since I started training Mikko, at first it was great, he was stepping up whenever I offered my hand and not biting.

However, the past few weeks haven't been so great; ever since I started to move him from perch to perch while on my hand:

*He doesn't step up as frequently anymore

*He tries to think of new ways to get back on his perch before I can start moving once he's on my hand (and frankly I'm impressed; he figured out that if he moved towards the tips of my fingers my hand would get lower and he would have a better chance at reaching the perch with his foot :confused: )

*Once on my hand, no matter what I do (stay still, move him, praise, give treats, distract) his only goal is to get off and back to a perch.

Oh and btw, all training is done in his cage cz he won't let me take him out of it (as you might have figured out from what I wrote )

 

So what can I do?

What am I doing wrong?

All suggestions are welcomed

Regards

Joe

[Dave007]

Is there some particular reason why you keep moving him from perch to perch? At first it may be a new novelty to the bird but eventually, they like staying in familar places for longer periods of time.

 

*****Once on my hand, no matter what I do (stay still, move him, praise, give treats, distract) his only goal is to get off and back to a perch.*****

 

Just what are you training him to do?

Treats aren't given to a bird to convince him to do very basic things. That comes naturally.

What your bird is doing is totally natural and all parrots deo it.

 

What setback?

[Joe Bachi]

Is there some particular reason why you keep moving him from perch to perch? At first it may be a new novelty to the bird but eventually, they like staying in familar places for longer periods of time.

 

*****Once on my hand, no matter what I do (stay still, move him, praise, give treats, distract) his only goal is to get off and back to a perch.*****

 

Just what are you training him to do?

Treats aren't given to a bird to convince him to do very basic things. That comes naturally.

What your bird is doing is totally natural and all parrots deo it.

 

What setback?

 

I am training him to step up and stay on my hand

I move him from perch to perch in order to slowly get him used to being moved around while on my hand which will eventually lead to me taking him out of the cage and putting him back ... and in the long run, perching on my shoulder.

Here's what's happening:

He gets on my hand... I wait a few secs...give him a treat... put him back on his perch

The prob is that he won't stay on my hand, he tries to get down as soon as he's on it

What do u suggest doing?

[Dave007]

You should eliminate the perch. Take your time to walk over to the percvh ( a long time). Instead of using a perch, use the floor. He'll go from the floor to your hand but the perch won't be anywhere around. After do this whole excerize fow quite a time, introduce the perch. A bird likes to stay on a perch. It's a natural thing. Your hand moves around a bit. ( you may not even know it--the bird does though.). A perch doesn't move around. It's solid and steady and comfortable. take it slower. Is your bird clipped?

 

PS---Also, I don't know whether you know this but many birds don't like people sticking hands in their cages. traing takes longer. They take to a person after coming outside a cage.

How old is the bird?

Any previous owners?

Edited January 28, 2012 by Dave007

[Talon]

I agree with Dave. IT appears you are trying to hard and too fast to "train" your bird. Especially if you cant even get it out of its cage for other things. Perhaps you should back off a bit, let him learn to trust you 'outside' of HIS home. Let him venture out on his own terms, if you allow him to come around on his own time at his own pace, training him to do what you want will be easier & it will happen faster, but only after you have established a bond with him, and that can take months...

[birdhouse]

Since you believe he's wild caught, I think the fact that even stepping up says good things about the trust bond that's forming between you. That's a very rough process for a grey to live thru & traumatic. Phenix still has problems trusting bare hands. He'll go completely insane if anyone wearing gloves comes towards him. Unfortunately for us, whoever "stick trained" him did even more damage.

 

You really need to understand how much trauma he needs to work thru before you can overcome the first things he learned about human contact. It's going to take time & patience (aren't you just sick of hearing that?) and a lot of it. There's no tricks to make him forget that kind of terror.

 

I think Mikko trusts you quite a lot in some ways since he let you clip his nails. And I think he's trying. Very hard in fact. But being in/on your hand just scares him too much, still. The harder you push him, the longer it's likely to take for him to come around.

 

And a lot of what Dave said also applies. Mikko may be more willing to step onto your hand if he weren't in his cage when you ask. But, you should only use that. Don't abuse it.

 

Let Mikko climb onto your hand & keep him there for a few seconds before letting him off again. Let him repeatedly come away w/the feeling that nothing bad happened. Having no control, not being able to "get away" is bad. The more scared he gets, the more you are reinforcing the trauma you're trying to overcome. If he gets scared enough, he's likely to start to bite &/or flee blindly even if he causes himself harm.

 

One other thing. Many of our fids are hormonal right now. That is simply a kind of temporary insanity. lol They do not act like themselves. Phenix, my bad boy is being an absolute sweetheart. Kura, my sweetie, is being a witch. So maybe you could try to just keep things simple for the next couple of weeks, until the madness recedes a little.

[judygram]

The others have given you some excellent advice, I can't stress enough that patience is needed when working with a rehomed or a suspected wild caught grey, they have trust issues that will take lots of time to work thru so celebrate the small steps and take it easy on Mikko and give him plenty of time for if you try to rush things it will backfire on you and then it will take even longer.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I don't believe in EVER putting my hand, in any of my birds cages. I practiced stepup, stepdown, always away from their cages. Simple stepup... I removed the bird, away from the cage. Gave them a tour of my home. Watched a movie together with family. Stepdown, playing a game with other family members. Most training needs to be done away from cage, in our family"s experience Nancy

[Talon]

My amazon will give you a big chomp if you invade HER home, or stick your fingers in her cage even to offer a treat. My greys dont mind my hand in their cages, but when I open any old my cages up to ask them to step up, it is always with a kind greeting first, then moving my hand slowly as I kindly ask them to step up. It is always their

choice as to whether they want to come out with me or not. I never force it.

[birdhouse]

I think it's a statement to just how much my fids & I trust each other when I'm allowed to stick half of myself in their cage just to give someone a kiss. I'm very well aware that it risks serious consequences, which is why I'm so honored by their acceptance.

 

Like Talon said, "It is always their choice ... I never force it." Their cages are their territory & I understand & respect it. Enough to be welcome to clean, handle them & their young or give them a big ole kiss, just because.

 

But rarely by Phenix. He's a totally different case, w/a lot of different rules & a completely different perspective. But why would I expect anything else from such an intelligent, emotional creature who spent the beginning of his life soaring thru trees, living wild & free in the jungle?

 

The goals of taming a wild parrot are not the same as training a fid. Training is meant to communicate acceptable behaviors where the trainer feels (s)he's clearly in charge.

 

To me, taming is quite the opposite. It's a very genuine attempt to prove trustworthy. Certainly not the upside of the power curve. Not a time to dictate. If anything, it's about doing everything possible to accommodate the bird wherever possible to help it overcome its very justifiable fears.

 

Once a wild bird has established its cage as a safe haven, the farther away it gets, the more fearful it often gets. Especially if the bird is clipped & knows it can't get back. So working in his cage may very well have been a great part of why Mikko has come such a long way w/Joe in such a short time. They've actually done an amazing job together! But Mikko has a lot of fear to overcome yet.

 

Fear cannot be trained away. It can only be minimized by sufficient overwhelmingly positive experiences. It can & usually does resurface at the most unexpected times.

 

I've always thought given a grey's basic mentality, fear must be even that much harder for them to conquer. It's another reason why I've always had such huge respect for rehab's who overcome their past to become even relatively "normal" fids.