One Month With Gracie Update

[JeffNOK]

When asked how things are going with Gracie, my response varies depending on the day. I've had her a little over a month and it is still a roller coaster ride.

 

On the positive side: 1. She seems very happy and content. She eats well. She loves playing with her toys. She sits quietly preening or dozing with one foot tucked up in her downy feathers when she is relaxed. She also vocalizes and chirps and squawks with cheery abandon a few times a day for 30 min to an hour at a time. 2. She now enjoys vegetables which she didn't before. 3. She now enjoys baths which she didn't before. 4. She is not very messy. 5. She is flying much better. She navigates and lands well. She will be six months old next week and she is still learning to fly. I can't believe there are people who think a grey is fledged at 9 or 10 weeks. 6. Gracie seems to feel safe. She doesn't get spooked by things like she did the first couple of weeks.

 

Mixed Blessings: 1. Gracie will step up and go where I need her to go when necessary. HOWEVER: She only steps up when she WANTS to or when a BRIBE is involved. Stepping up just because Daddy wants her to is not yet an incentive for compliance. She will occassionally step up on my forearm after refusing my hand without a bribe--but this is only about 50% of the time. 2. Gracie will allow some limited affection. I can kiss her on the top of her beak, and sometimes she allows me to rub her beak with my knuckle for a few seconds. Yes I said seconds! I am happy to caress her beak for 5 seconds. That is IT--but it is better than before. Absolutely no head or neck scritches. I don't even try anymore. 3. During the last week she has flown to me and landed on me when called. AGAIN this is only for a bribe! Once the bribe has been consumed--off she goes.

 

Concerns: I have two situations where Gracie gets nippy and even bitey. As some of you remember I talked about how Gracie tries to chew up a print I have on the wall. In her endeavor she ends up hanging by her beak from the bottom of the frame legs dangling and wings flapping in need of rescue. Well now when I rescue her she sometimes tries to bite when I return her to the cage. If I stand there and let her sit on my hand while she continues to chew up the frame she is usually happy, but when I move her away from the print and put her back on her cage she nips--sometimes hard and more than once. A more serious issue involves a foot toy. Gracie has a little ball that she carries over to the edge of her cage and drops for me to catch. I catch the ball and return it to her. She then drops it for me to catch and I again return it to her. Well at first this was just a fun game, but recently it has become vicious. At first we just sort of play catch, but after a few minutes rather that taking the ball she tries to bite my fingers. Once she lunged at my fingers when I went to take the ball when it was sitting near her. She meant business. This was not a bluff or a nip--it was a bite! I guess she is territorial of the ball now and we can't play anymore. It makes me sad because I thought it was a way to bond.

 

I try to let her do what she wants and not assert any dominance over her. To be honest, she doesn't misbehave much and there is no reason for me to push her. The other day I read an article by Maggie Wright from the Grey Round Table--and she said her bird became nippy over time because she had not established herself as the flock leader and that she had to correct that in order to have a different relationship. She didn't bother to mention what she changed in her behavior, though. I don't know if I am doing the right things with Gracie or if I'm being too passive.

Edited January 20, 2012 by JeffNOK

[munch]

Sounds like things are going very well! Sounds like you're establishing a partnership with her, which is great! I'm a believeer that even in a partnership, each one needs to know the other limits. In this case, she can't chew on prints and other such objects-- maybe remove them for a little while? Then again, I may be waaaay off.

[Life is Greyt]

Sounds like you guys have made positive progress. I totally understand her being nippy as Chickie seems to be in a similar stage. She is much more willing to attempt a nip or bite than she was 2 weeks ago. I attribute it to her coming into her own and realizing that she might have a different opinion about things than I do. There are different schools of thought on this, but when Chickie becomes nippy or rude I sternly tell her "no" or "no bite" and then give her a second chance. If she continues the behavior then she goes in her cage for 10-15 min. After that I go get her and start fresh. Also, we have found that her behavior is very linked to how high she is. Her tree puts her at eye level with us and sometimes when she's being "bratty," as I call it, all it takes to straighten her out is to simply move her lower in her tree. She climbs back up to the top, but the act of us lowering her even only a few inches causes a 180 attitude adjustment. Hopefully others that are more experienced than me will have some good advice too, but it seems that our girls are quite similar so hopefully I've helped some.

[Wingy]

Gracie tries to chew up a print I have on the wall. In her endeavor she ends up hanging by her beak from the bottom of the frame legs dangling and wings flapping in need of rescue. Well now when I rescue her she sometimes tries to bite when I return her to the cage. If I stand there and let her sit on my hand while she continues to chew up the frame she is usually happy, but when I move her away from the print and put her back on her cage she nips--sometimes hard and more than once.

 

She is telling you that she doesn't want to stop chewing. The same way a young child would cry if you took away something they were playing with.

 

Gracie has a little ball that she carries over to the edge of her cage and drops for me to catch. I catch the ball and return it to her. She then drops it for me to catch and I again return it to her. Well at first this was just a fun game, but recently it has become vicious. At first we just sort of play catch, but after a few minutes rather that taking the ball she tries to bite my fingers. Once she lunged at my fingers when I went to take the ball when it was sitting near her.

 

It sounds like you changed the rules of the game and either she didn't understand or doesn't want to play the game like that.

 

You have to remember that your both still learning each others language and how to communicate. What you don't want her to do is come to the conclusion that biting is the best way to communicate.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Wingy

[JeffNOK]

I appreciate the feedback. I'm 6ft4, so she is never really "higher" than me even on top of her cage--although she is at about nose level there. I may try to move her to a different room to interact with her. That would be my bedroom. I have a one bedroom condo open plan. Her bird room is a former dining area. It is basically right there next to the living room. She certainly prefers to stay in that area. When I try to move her to another place she flies off my hand and goes back to her cage or playstand. I am learning her body language. I must admit, I noticed her tendancy a few days ago with the ball, but I decided to try again anyway. I should have just left well enough alone. When she nips I do use a stern voice and let her know I am not pleased, but I don't make too big a deal about it.

[danmcq]

Great update, thanks for sharing it.

 

One thing I learned long ago with Dayo when he was young and I would play with toys, just as you do. Soon you find that your hand becomes a part of the game as well, even though it is not the ball for example. I learned after a while to toss or roll the ball or other object to him, rather than offering it from my hand. If I offered it in my hand, it was 50/50 whether he would just take it or if he would nail me. All of this is trial and error both with you and Gracie as you go. As they age, they will mellow a little and he has learned to play "Nice" maybe 90 percent of the time, but while they are young, just as a human child, they go nuts and act physco, BIG FUN for them!

 

I personally do not believe in the Height Dominance theory, it is not true in the wild at all. The only thing a bird gains from height is an easier way to avoid you, not dominate you.

Edited January 21, 2012 by danmcq

[chezron]

You really have made great progress with Gracie. Really, give yourself some credit! I would add, for your consideration, to help with the biting problem, do not give Gracie an opportunity to have to choose. Does that make sense? Just like Dan said, toss the ball and do not offer your fingers. If you give Gracie better choices then she won't have the opportunity to mess up. Also, I always think it is a bad idea if they even start to make biting an automatic response. Meaning that, I think it becomes a habit or the pathways in the brain become ingrained. Better to never start the habit than to try to straighten it out later. Gracie is not alone in being willful. Greys are that way by nature, it does not work to attempt to dominate them. That being said, later you CAN direct them with "no" because they respect you and love you. My guy WILL NOT step up sometimes, and there is nothing I can do to force it. Once I offer my hand and he responds with an immediate lowering of his head, it is game over. To caveat this, though, over time those situations have become less and he rarely bites or attempts to bite anymore. Please keep up the good work.

[JeffNOK]

You know--I have no desire to dominate Gracie. I second guess myself sometimes because I read these posts of those who talk about being a "flock leader". Deep down I just don't think that is the way forward with Gracie. She is her own person, and I am my own person and we will find a way to live together as equals. Yes there will be times when I will have to take the upper hand for safety reasons, but other than that--I have no reason to assert my will over hers. I get discouraged sometimes, but I know in the long run we will make a good team.

[danmcq]

You hit the nail on the head Jeff. There are no "Leaders" in a flock. It is a communal living arrangement and each takes on a task or role as the need arises. You cannot dominate a bird. They will simply respond with fear, uncertainty and of a good bite or flight. They will learn as you take the time in being patient, that it is a give take. Sometimes you ask if they wish to step up while offering your forearm or hand, other times when it is not an option you persist until they do. It takes a while, but they will learn the difference in the dynamics of your tone and posturing.

 

Don't get discouraged, Gracie is an infant at this point and has no social habits yet. She is just learning to understand and like things in a human world, with her strong instinct driven parrot reactions to the her environment. After a few years, she will have learned to control those wild instincts as she understands humans for the most part are "ok" once they learn our body language. One thing I am certain you know, they are very intuitive and empathic. You cannot disguise your true inner emotions when you are upset or anxious, they feel it, regardless of the happy face and voice. It is best if one has the time, to just take a deep breath, chill and calm down, then try again at a request you wish them to comply with.

Edited January 21, 2012 by danmcq

[judygram]

It has only been a month and that is a very short time in grey terms so give yourself some credit for accomplishing what you have already, you are doing fine and it will get better as time goes by, lets see how much different it will be in 6 months time or a year from now, keep up the good work.

[Malikah]

Congratulations on the getting her to eat veggies and enjoy a bath! Those are two big accomplishments. I don't see anything wrong with bribery, but others may disagree. To me it's kind of a compromise, you both get what you want. For the toy game, Dan nailed it. Maybe miss catching it sometimes, she probably likes the sound it makes when it hits the floor. "Uh-oh" was the only word my conure ever said. As far as the picture frame fiasco, have a treat ready for when you prepare to bring her away from it, then you are rewarding her for allowing you to remove her from the forbidden area. Gee, I guess I'm a big fan of bribery aren't I? LOL!

[JeffNOK]

The last couple of days I have just let Gracie "rescue" herself when it comes to the picture frame. I have found that when she loses her beak grip on the frame she is able to fly rather than crash like she did before. Although I like the interaction with her, I think her confidence is building as she becomes more self reliant.

[MarcusCAG]

Although I like the interaction with her, I think her confidence is building as she becomes more self reliant.

 

And that's definitely a good thing. Please keep us all posted as you two continue your life journey together...

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

danmcq... Just a friendly question. I respect your experience, and have learned alot of things from you. Why is there no flock leader? Isn't that normal with most animal species? Nancy