Help! She started to "eat" her feathers, not plucking tho.

[Fratyr]

Hello,

 

Brief:

My CAG is 10 months old. We've pretty good relationship with her. We do bath once a week, sometimes twice, not as good as It should happen, but we work on getting loved to be sprayed. In any case, I do my best to wet her feathers without too much hurting her.

 

The problem:

I've recently discovered, that she started to gnaw/eat her feathers. First, 3 damn big feathers in the back (left wing I suppose) and some on the neck. She's no plucking, I didn't saw plucked feathers around or empty space in her back/neck, but the feathers are look eaten.. only "stem" is left, but the fluff is almost all gone on this areas.

 

1. What's happening? How to prevent it? I prefer not to go to vet, I just can give a call to my breeder, but your opinion is great too. Maybe there's a strategy to let her understand that this feather eating is bad and she might do something else instead? Like the "Positive reinforcement" in Good Bird videos.

 

2. Will this feather grow back? (the stem(If I can said that..) as I said is okay, I thought the fluff grows back same as clipped wings.

 

Uhm... Thanks a lot and Happy New Year everyone!

[DawL]

Hello,

 

Brief:

My CAG is 10 months old. We've pretty good relationship with her. We do bath once a week, sometimes twice, not as good as It should happen, but we work on getting loved to be sprayed. In any case, I do my best to wet her feathers without too much hurting her.

 

The problem:

I've recently discovered, that she started to gnaw/eat her feathers. First, 3 damn big feathers in the back (left wing I suppose) and some on the neck. She's no plucking, I didn't saw plucked feathers around or empty space in her back/neck, but the feathers are look eaten.. only "stem" is left, but the fluff is almost all gone on this areas.

 

1. What's happening? How to prevent it? I prefer not to go to vet, I just can give a call to my breeder, but your opinion is great too. Maybe there's a strategy to let her understand that this feather eating is bad and she might do something else instead? Like the "Positive reinforcement" in Good Bird videos.

 

2. Will this feather grow back? (the stem(If I can said that..) as I said is okay, I thought the fluff grows back same as clipped wings.

 

Uhm... Thanks a lot and Happy New Year everyone!

 

It sounds to me like your bird is chewing his feathers. You did not give me much unformation to go on aside from bathing schedule, so my answer will be very broad. Whatever I list here that you have not done, I would do for your bird to try and get to the bottom of this behavior as soon as possible. Feather damaging behaviors are very complicated, and require a multifaceted approach to treat. The key is to determine the cause for the plucking/chewing, and often times that is the most difficult part. Above all you need to take your bird to an avian vet for a complete workup. He should be screened for viral infections, such as PBFD, for bacterial infections, have blood work done, get a thorough physical exam, and be vaccinated for Polyomavirus. In fact, your bird should have a well visit check up once a year. Next, you must be sure that the diet is good. You did not share the diet information with us, but you need to make sure your bird is on a good pelleted diet, such as Harrison's or Roudybush. Please be sure your bird gets fruits and vegetables every day as part of a healthy diet as well. Also, I prefer to use organic foods with my birds to avoid any kind of allergic reaction to pesticides and herbicide resdues (these can also cause feather plucking/chewing). Next, and an answer that is quite obvious, is be sure your bird has PLENTY of toys to play with. Birds can also pluck/chew out of boredom. I would also include some toys for foraging, as these seem to have proven beneficial with birds that chew. Next I would start using a water bottle for water as opposed to a bowl. Bowl tend to build up a bacteria in the bottom of the bowl called a "biofilm". This biofilm contains a bacteria called pseudomonas, which is a very common bacterial infection birds get from the bacterial buildup in their water bowls. Pseudomonas is a bacterial infection that is a very common cause for feather damaging behaviors. Sometimes it can help to increase the humidity in the home by buying a warm air humidifier, and also adding full spectrum lighting nmay help with the behavior. Last, but not least, I would check the location of the cage. Keep it away from the doorway where you could walk in and scare your bird if he can't see you coming, and also away from a window, as animals outside can be scary as well, such as squirells, owls, ect.

 

Above all, you will need to see your avian vet. I didn't understand why in your post you said that you didn't want to take your bird to the vet... that is part of animal ownership. If your animal gets sick or something is not right, it is YOUR JOB as a responsible owner to make sure your animal gets the care that it needs no matter what. If you cannot afford to take your animal to the vet, then it may be that you should have thought that through before you got your animal in the first place. I wish you luck, and hopefully you will get to the bottom of this behavior, and try to fix it.

[Fratyr]

Hi DawL,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

A lot of information and things to go through. I would like to clarify you some things so you may localize the problem if you want and can. What do you think?

I would like, as well, to hear other opinions if some of you guys willing to answer.

 

First, I will comment your answer.

1. I can afford taking a bird to vet, I said that I don't want to do that, because my breeder said the avian vets will just get my bird killed and that normally, CAG doesn't need a vet if you take care of him. Well, as I'm of being stupid and newbie I trusted him, but I see on this forum a lot of you people take the birds to vet.

2. Yes, bathing schedule is once-twice a week and she's not fully soaked, I will try harder and get the Aloe Vera juice for spraying. Should I mix water with the juice or pure juice to spray over the bird?

3. Can you show me any pictures of water bottle you talk about? I just don't get the idea. And yes, now I'm almost sure our water bowl might be infected, as we gave her the water directly from the water tap, without filtering it first or something. Water in Israel is not always the best this way. As well. we don't wash the bowl too good, we just wash out with our hands what's inside and put a new water.

4. Toys.. as you'll see in my pictures now, there's only few huge toys, but she's not playing with them at all. I seem to have a hard time finding a toys for her. There's not that much in Israel, there's not that much abroad to buy online and ship here and I don't know what she'll like.

I see a lot of CAGs hanging around the cage, playing with the toys, but mine is just sitting on the perch and sings...

5. Humidity - We always have around 45-50% in the room, as this is a winter, in the summer which will begin in a few months and stay for like 8 months in Israel, the humidity will be 70-90%... Can't think why she needs more? But I have a "cool" air humidifier, not warm tho.

6. No idea which light to put, in the winter is kinda dark here... Any suggestions? "Full spectrum" doesn't tell me much, but a link can fix the problem.

7. The place is okay, she's near the window, but It's always closed and we don't have any other animals outside, It's city... she look very calm in the corner and she can see EVERYTHING from there and who's approaching.

 

Now.. I did some pictures right now, they can show bird's conditions...

 

The diet

 

The diet I use is what my breeder uses for his CAGs, and he has plenty of them.

 

The dry food:

 

The dry mix I put into water for 12 hours before serving and give it her everyday:

 

Fruits and vegs - Well, only apples and bananas, she doesn't like any thing else.

 

I use roaster sun flower seeds for training, as this is the only thing she reacts to when she sees it.

 

The cage and toys

This is her cage:

 

As you can see, I might picked up a wrong cage, it's big, but luck of places to put toys on. I can't think of any places where to put the toys and which ones... Any suggestions how to tweak the cage?

 

Top of the cage

 

Inside of the cage

 

The cag

This is how she looks right now. She's pretty happy, singing and likes this new natural perch.

 

 

This is our problem:

 

 

I hope it helps to score the living conditions of the bird, localize the problem, swear on me and give me the right direction.

 

Thanks a lot!

[DawL]

I can afford taking a bird to vet, I said that I don't want to do that, because my breeder said the avian vets will just get my bird killed and that normally, CAG doesn't need a vet if you take care of him. Well, as I'm of being stupid and newbie I trusted him, but I see on this forum a lot of you people take the birds to vet.

 

Listen, I don't want to sound mean, and this is in NO WAY directed to you at all, but your "breeder" sounds like...ya know what? I am not even going to say it, because it would not be nice. "Breeders" like this really p**s me off....Okay, enough said on that subject. Moving on...

 

Yes, bathing schedule is once-twice a week and she's not fully soaked, I will try harder and get the Aloe Vera juice for spraying. Should I mix water with the juice or pure juice to spray over the bird?

 

I would increase the showering. I like to shower my fids every other day. I do not use the aloe vera juice, but I am sure someone will come along that can give you the proper ratio to use.

 

 

 

Here is alink to a water bottle that can be used for your Grey. http://www.amazon.com/Lixit-Glass-Water-Bottle-GB16S/dp/B0006B7FMO

Not washing out her water bowl with soap and water is a definite NO NO. You need to wash them CLEAN. Wiping them out with your fingers just isn't going to cut it. The link to the water bottle was so you can see what it looks like. Thenm you can find something around where you live, or somwhere that will ship to you.

 

Also, the toys. There are common things around your home that you can make toys out of, just be sure they are bird safe. I would imagine doing a little research would give you some ideas. Also, with toys it is going to be trial and error. She may love one thing you give her, and hate another. You have to try new things to get her opinion on them, then you will know what kind of toys she likes.

 

The humidity sounds okay there, but I really don't know what Isreal is like. Running a humidifier is not going to hurt anything.

 

Next, full spectrum lighting. Greys need full spectrum lighting if they are not getting adequate outside time in the sun. Here is a link to what I am talking about: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=1015

 

Also here is a link to what the bulb might look like. I would look around to see if you can find one, or order one online: http://www.birdsupplies.com/avilux-full-spectrum-bird-lights/

 

Now onto the diet. What exactly is it that you feed your Grey? As far as the fruits and veggies, if she eats some fruit that is great, but it does not make up for not getting vegetables in her diet. I would honestly go down the bird safe list of veggies until you find something she likes. This is also going to be a trial and error thing, and it may take some time, and a lot of waste, before you find something she likes.

 

As far as her cage goes, I think she could use a bigger cage when you can get her one. I don't see a lot of perching areas, and she will need SEVERAL, all different widths to allow her the exercise she needs for her feet. Also, she definitely needs more toys, as mentioned above. Next I would do away with the bedding you ahve in the bottom of the cage, and on top. Replace it with newspaper.

 

Let me know if you may have another question, and hopefully another member will chime in here. Also, please be aware that these suggestions cannot replace a visit to your avian vet, and I strongly urge you to make an appointment as soon as possible.

[Dave007]

I'll answer a few of your questions but you should understand that the info comes from resources that have proven to be correct and the next situation is where you live and what you do with basic but life giving items. So, it may make you angry but you want the truth.

The dry food------Your bird is fully weaned so I have absolutely no idea why you soak that dry food for 12 hrs. At his age the food should be totally hard and dry. I really don't care whether your breeder does it. He shouldn't be in the business. Feeding that stuff to very young baby birds can result in the birds being sickly at a later date. The only wet food (damp) is veggies and it's gonna take a long time to find some that your bird will like. Any veggies that you look for should be green. Fruit has no nutritional value. You need a regulation guranteed parrot mix which you may have to get online.

Picture # 2-------That mixture of seed has no nutritional value because it's overloaded with kernals of corn which have no vitamins or natural minerals. I don't know if your breeder told you to feed it or you came up with the idea but in either case, it was a terrible idea.

 

Water ------******And yes, now I'm almost sure our water bowl might be infected, as we gave her the water directly from the water tap, without filtering it first or something. Water in Israel is not always the best this way. As well. we don't wash the bowl too good, we just wash out with our hands what's inside and put a new water.*********

 

So, you're giving that water in an infected bowl with bad water. Does that sound normal you? Did you ever figure out that parrots and other outside birds need clean water? Ever hear about using soap to clean out bowls? Would you clean your own food dishes the same way? There's really no way to answer this because it only has to do with common sense. I've never heard of people giving bad water to a bird in an infected bowl. I was gonna say something about those feathers but I'll just say that many parts of your bird's body can be affected by what you're doing.

Using aloe juice--it should be used full strength.

Water bottles-----first learn how to give clean water in a clean bowl then we can talk about water bottles because those bottles are used for certain reasons and if bad water is used in them, the same problems can happen.

 

PS---it looks like you need to buy things online so you should find out whether it's easier to get these things from the US or from the UK. Which ever is closer to you.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Dave007

[birdhouse]

Clean water is important for both drinking & washing. If you have reason to suspect that your available drinking water is tainted w/something that's unhealthy for humans, then don't use if for your fid, either.

 

Cups should be kept as clean as possible so they don't incubate their own problems. Whether or not your fid tends to make a mess w/food & droppings in the dishes, they should be thoroughly washed, preferably w/an antibacterial dish soap & thoroughly rinsed at least once a day. Water should be replaced as needed by busy, soup makers. lol

 

I would argue strongly that stainless steel cups are the best food & water dishes. Stainless steel is used for surgical instruments & implantation because it can be most completely & easily sanitized & not known to leach harmful chemicals. You can easily see that the surface is clear of any residual soap or food or film caused over time by chemical build up.

 

Plastic is much harder to sanitized & tends to absorb odors & chemicals. The surface becomes scored & scratched quickly. This ultimately becomes a great breeding surface for germs. It also makes it more difficult to rinse thoroughly clean. Water bottles (like this http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752722 ) have the added problems of hard to reach surfaces & prohibit the fid from bathing on their own, even if they wanted to. Plastic is also being researched for the detrimental long term effects caused by some of its chemical composition.

 

Food is obviously important as well. But there are so many different opinions about what's best. Everyone is also limited by what they have available to them. This sounds like a good time to re-evaluate your fid's overall diet, though. Maybe check out some additions like Red Palm oil or Palm nuts, too.

 

Palm nuts are good nutritionally. They're a large part of a grey's diet in the wild. They're also good fun to eat. Boredom can be as big an issue as anything. Your fid sounds like she's getting time out of the cage which is very good. But if she's just sitting in a different spot for some part of the day it's less helpful than it may be. Although don't get me wrong. The interaction & exercise are all good!

 

But it would be a good thing if you taught her to play. I am very fond of many of the suggestions in these e-books. I recommend them all the time. You'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader to download them. Everything's free, but of course you can make a contribution if you want.

 

http://parrotenrichment.com/books.html

 

 

I'm pretty creative & I've kept birds for decades. I've been making toys forever because my guys weren't very interested in much of the commercial stuff. I still found some very interesting ideas here. There's a ton of ideas about making toys from pretty common household items. There's lots of intelligent suggestions about teaching fids to forage & play, too.

Edited January 5, 2012 by birdhouse

[DawL]

Well put Dave, and I think you really need to take this advice to heart Fratyr. Some of the things you are doing just don't make it seem like you want what is best for your bird. If you wouldnt drink out of that bowl, don't give it to your Grey. Same with the other things. If you think you would want more toys, give her some. If you think you would need to go to a doctor in this situation, take her to one. She thinks, feels, and loves just as you do, and deserves no less than what you have, and what you would need. I really hope you get her to the vet, and learn how to properly care for her. Best of luck.

[Fratyr]

Hey, Thanks a lot guys.

I'm honestly will take all this tips to heart and do what it takes to fix the problems.

I feel like my breeder, pardon, wants me to kill the bird as fast as possible so I come to buy another one... Or I'm just to paranoid about it now.

 

Anyway, great tips, i'll start rebuilding cag's environment slowly, not to scare her of the new changes to come and will visit a vet.

 

Thanks again!

[DawL]

I really hope you do, and you will be glad you did once you make these changes...your grey will be healthier, happier, and will thank you for it.