A Few Challenges With Gracie

[JeffNOK]

Well it's been two weeks today since I brought Gracie home. Things are going pretty well, but I am starting to see some challenges. When I first got Gracie, she would pretty much always step up when asked (although she might fly off after a couple of minutes). Recently I've been trying to socialize Gracie more and get her used to her Pak o Bird carrier. During the Christmas holidays I took Gracie over to my parents' house. The first time she stepped up and went into her Pak O Bird with no incident, but on Christmas Eve when I went to get her to go into the Pak O Bird she stepped up, but as I neared her carrier she flew off. Then she wouldn't step up. With some effort I finally distracted her wih a toy and got her into the carrier and took her over to my parents. When it was time to come home, however, she really resisted and flew around and just wouldn't step up or go into her carrier. It took ages to get her back in.

 

Now she is wary of my requests to step up. It's like she doesn't trust me as much. She spends almost all of her time either in her cage or on top of it and occassionally flies to a nearby playstand to chill. I don't want to pressure her, but my plan was to take her to class with me daily while I teach. I don't want to leave her home alone if possible. Even when I coax her with treats or toys, she is wary to step up and seems to be suspicious about my intentions. She can no doubt sense my frustration and lack of confidence and that adds to the problem.

 

My gut tells me to just step back and build my relationship with her before subjecting her to more Pak O Bird adventures, but another part of me wonders if this will just make it harder later on. It's times like this that make me remember that I am a complete novice with parrots and just don't know what to do. I just want her to be happy and to trust me, but I feel I'm in a holding pattern rather than going forward.

Edited December 27, 2011 by JeffNOK

[birdhouse]

Expectations + time tables = setbacks + Frustration VS Goals + time invested = Progress + motivation

 

Gracie's only been w/you for a short time. She may be a baby & may have gotten familiar w/you weeks ago, but she doesn't recognize you as her parront, yet & she is very much her own girl. A characteristic you specifically wanted in your fid. Now it's about working w/it.

 

First thing is to make sure the carrier isn't visible. Hard to tell whether she doesn't like the carrier or Xmas was just too much, too soon or both. But either way, I'd encourage you to recognize that Gracie needs some positive bonding time before you go any further. In the process of building a successful bond, you'll likely learn more about what was so upsetting to Gracie this week & then have some better idea as to where to go from here.

 

I would step back & go thru all the introduction techniques suggested for rehomes. Gracie will probably benefit from being treated this way because she's already got such a strong sense of self. But she will probably respond to this kind of treatment rapidly because she is still a baby that's spent so much time w/you prior to coming home.

 

Once she seems comfortable, again, you can sit the carrier back out somewhere she can see it. Make sure it isn't anywhere close to where she is generally or anywhere that you'll need to move or interact w/it, either. You should see her start to watch it immediately. She may go back to acting skittish. But just act like the carrier's nothing to be concerned about & work thru any nervousness with her.

 

Once she's been ignoring it for a few days, then you can move it to where you both might start to interact w/it, but again, make sure it isn't too close to her cage, play stand, etc. It's also important that you don't try to make her do anything. Once she's well & truly un-phased by it, you can try to put it someplace that she'll be able to explore it on her on terms & schedule. Then you can put treats inside to encourage her to climb in. After a few days, you can try closing her in for a few minutes & see how it goes.

 

I know you were hoping to take Gracie w/you after Xmas vacation. I think you may want to make some arrangements in the event that doesn't happen. It sounds like she might not be ready & this is an important time to do everything possible to go slowly enough to accommodate her needs. It's important that you build a solid, trusting bond right now.

 

Sorry if this isn't what you were hoping to hear. But, well, that's just kind of how this goes sometimes. You want Gracie to become very comfortable living a bigger than average grey's life. It's well worth the extra time & effort now. Honest.

[JeffNOK]

Thank you birdhouse. You know your suggestions were very much what I wanted to hear. I was feeling this pressure to get her socialized and traveling out and about. I worried that if I didn't do it now, she would never want to do it. Now I'm just going to relax and build a bond with Gracie. As far as going to school--hopefully that will come in time, but it isn't the end of the world if she doesn't. I can probably get home during my lunch hour to see her since I live close to my school. In any case I'll only be gone from 9-3. I know many people are away from their greys longer than that, and hopefully it will just be temporary.

[Morana]

Once she's been ignoring it for a few days, then you can move it to where you both might start to interact w/it, but again, make sure it isn't too close to her cage, play stand, etc.

 

Why does he need to make sure it isn't too close to her cage, play stand,...? Because she is nervous near it?

[Dave007]

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Edited December 27, 2011 by Dave007

[JeffNOK]

One other question. Gracie seems most resistant to me when she is on the top of her cage--her preferred place. She happily steps up from inside the cage when I take her out, and when she wants to go back in her cage, she steps up eagerly for me to put her back. She also steps up better when she is on her playstand. Unfortunately, she really prefers her cage top and it is then that she resists and avoids my hand. Should I just let this be for now, or should I do something to prevent her from staying on her cage top and have her spend more time on her playstand. Also, she absoluely never gets on couches, furiniture, or floor. It's cage--cagetop--playstand period. She probably feels safest on her cagetop and i want her to have her security.

[Dave007]

This is something you've probably heard a million times-----A person needs to wait a while with a new bird concerning all the new things that it must get used to. This is NEW PARROT 101. 2 weeks is a very short time. You may not believe it but your bird isn't used to it's surroundings yet. It does many things thyat make you think that he's used to all things but that's not true.

 

Now for the Pak o Bird-------Parrot ownership and parrot keeping existed for centuries before Pak o Bird was invented.

 

***The first time she stepped up and went into her Pak O Bird with no incident, but on Christmas Eve when I went to get her to go into the Pak O Bird she stepped up, but as I neared her carrier she flew off. Then she wouldn't step up.**

 

At first, a person can get away with many things when trying out new things or devices on their new birds. But eventually, that bird makes a decision as far as liking or disliking those new things and as soon as they can see how to get away from those new things or devices it will. Going to your parent"s house may be an adventure and thrill to you but you can never ask your bird whether it's an adventure to him. It's very common for a bird to lose trust and become very leery of a person who's using the same method to do something like putting him/'her in an enclosed area..The same method can be used for other things that a bird will like but does he know the end results of those same two methods?

 

*****I don't want to pressure her, but my plan was to take her to class with me daily while I teach.*****

 

Well, you're doing just that. Your bird needs to develop loads of trust in all family members, environments, habits and things in your house before an owner decides to disturbing that learning process. I could go on and on but instead, I ll just say that all your treks into the outdoors including visiting strangers and new environments should be put on hold until the bird is extremely secure and trusting of you. Those are the things to work on IN THE HOUSE.

 

Just because Pak o Bird now exists doesn't mean it can simply be used because it's says---*** made for Birds***

[JeffNOK]

Dave007: Thanks for your advice. Believe me when I say I only want to do what's right for my little girl. I'm putting everything on hold until we have a trusting bond, and then I'm going to take baby steps with her.

[birdhouse]

Morana, Gracie should feel like she has some safe, secure personal spaces, especially now. I expect she'll find the carrier threatening so it shouldn't be allowed to invade her space.

 

Jeff, I think the biggest difference between bringing home & settling a baby vs rehomed grey is their sense of self. Most babies are still inexperienced enough to be willing to follow a flock leader/parront figure to get thru the transition. Most rehomes already feel they can depend on things they've experienced. Gracie already seems to have a great sense of self. Which is why I'd default to treating her like a rehomed fid right now.

 

If she were a rehome & more comfortable not stepping up, off her cage, it would be better to accept that, for now. At least not to challenge it. So maybe you can let her spend time on top of her cage when she's looking like she needs some personal time. Then give her a reason to go back into the cage on her own (bribery is our friend ;-p). Have her step up when you think she's ready to take her out again.

 

Basically, set up as much positive interaction as you can. Just get to know & enjoy each other. In other words, Jeff, right now, your main focus is to seduce Gracie. lol

[JeffNOK]

Seduction it is!

 

I wondered about one other thing that came to mind. My breeder has the philosophy that the chicks should stay with their parents longer than most breeders do. Rather than pulling Gracie at 3 or 4 weeks as is typical, Gracie was pulled at 9 weeks and handfed until 18 weeks when I brought her home. Could this have had an effect on her initial bond to and dependence on humans?

[CLB]

Bribery is the BEST! Since Shadow won't step up for me...bribery is all I have. But, with a high value reward, Shadow will go right into her cage no problem. She has gotten so accustomed to the sound of the treat bag she now will go running to her cage anytime she hears any bag! If a treat is not waiting in her bowl she will come out and look at me then go back in, as if to say..."hey look, I'm in my cage...where's the goods?" PS...she only gets nuts in her cage as a reward for going in. Sounds like your Gracie is a confident little girl!

[MarcusCAG]

I wondered about one other thing that came to mind. My breeder has the philosophy that the chicks should stay with their parents longer than most breeders do. Rather than pulling Gracie at 3 or 4 weeks as is typical, Gracie was pulled at 9 weeks and handfed until 18 weeks when I brought her home. Could this have had an effect on her initial bond to and dependence on humans?

 

I don't have any firsthand experience with this sort of thing, of course, but what I've read in the more modern Grey books is that the longer a chick can be with the parents, the better. They can learn more and build their confidence levels in ways that are a far more difficult thing to do, learning from a human. It is good that Gracie has such self-confidence, because you always hear about Greys that are phobic and nervous and--considering especially that she's a CAG--I've read that they often seem to take a bit longer to 'wean' properly from their parents than the TAGs, and so an extra bit of time with her parents probably enabled her to develop in ways that you would regret, later, if she hadn't. So even if she's a little more independent right now, be glad. She'll be the bold and brassy girl who can handle herself in more versatile situations with less stress, later on.

[Dave007]

If anything, doing that sort of thing makes for a very calm bird who isn't as hyper or nervious and more accepting of owners. The bird is also stronger, it has ideal weight, is more assured of itself. The problem is that

1----breeders want to wean the birds quickly for selling purposes

2----breeders want to accomodate the largest amount of customers

3----breeders are trying to make potential customers happy

Many birds are weaned but still need formula. ****Abundance feeding*****isn't high up on their **necessary*** list.

[Luvparrots]

Hi Jeff, my Ana Grey is my 3 1/2 year old TAG that I have since she was almost 4 months old. She is feisty and very self-assured. She does not always want to go back into her cage. I have a technique that works with her. I have her step up, no problem and then place my other hand just over her back, no need to touch. This keeps her from flying off, oh yes my parrots are all fully flighted. She can not fly off or out of my hands even though they are not holding her in, just a slight "cage" with my hands. A few tickles on the head and loving words and she is into her cage, carrier, whatever, no problems. If a Pak O Bird is a problem for Gracie, perhaps a Foldable Bird Carrier would be easier. Your grey can then see out from all sides.

 

It is important for your grey to trust you so you must be certain of your instructions to Gracie. If you aren't confident then she won't be either. You are the parront, she is the learning child/parrot. If you can take Gracie to your classroom without the activity of students a couple of times this might also help to get her adjusted to being in a classroom. Talk to her, I find my parrots to be very attentive and wanting to understand what I want.

[JeffNOK]

luvparrots: I do have a foldable cage and she goes in and out of it without much problem. That's a good idea. I'm definately not going to rush it. But I may experiment with that at the house and see if that might be an option in the future when I decide to take her out with me if she is willing and happy to do so.

[Life is Greyt]

JeffNok-Keep the faith!! I'm sure things will settle down between you two and all will be well. My Chickie sounds a lot like Gracie-she is very independent and quite happy spending hours on her tree playing while we are doing things in the house. She sometimes gives me a little grumble when she doesn't really want to step up, but if I ask again she will ususally agree. I totally understand how you feel-it's so hard because you just want to do right for your baby, and when you think you might have just done the wrong thing it's so upsetting. Everyone else gave you some excellent advice, and I'm sure the dust will settle. It's hard for me to give advice, as we are at the same birdie knowledge level, but I can give you my support as I totally understand how you feel.

[carlsjr]

I have her step up, no problem and then place my other hand just over her back, no need to touch. This keeps her from flying off,

 

This is what i have to do with Luna. but i do have to hold her because she always grabs the cage with her beak so i have to be quick or its a waiting game until she decides to let go while she is giving me the stink eye. when she is good and does not grab the cage i will put a nut in her bowl as a reward.

[Life is Greyt]

I put Chickie in her cage butt first so she's less likely to try and grab the bars on the way in. Usually works pretty well.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

JwffNOK, stepping up, is always easier than stepping down. Sophie years later, still holds out with one foot occassionally. I have to use my serious parent voice, "Sophie?" She gets it, and lets go.We've all been home this week. She is with us from 8am to 8pm nonstop. When I put her to bed, she breaks out in song, dialing the phone for "ROM"... (mom). Anything to delay bedtime. It has been hard. I'm not answering her phone call, not singing with her. She knows I'm serious. It is hard, soooo tempting! Last nite, EVERYONE came out at 11pm. Definitely okay! Nothing better than welcoming the New Year all together! Nancy