Am I helping or hurting the situation?

[Scoop]

Hey guys, its Scoop with Grim..

intro post - http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?194218-New-CAG-%28rehomed%29

 

Anyway, I decided that I wanted to spend a bit of time with Grim away from his cage, just to see how it goes. Here is my problem, Grim will NOT step up and bites me on his cage. So I try to use a step up stick.. He runs from the stick and bails out off the cage onto the floor. Here is what confuses me. When he gets off of his cage, as long as I'm slow and deliberate, I get him right off the floor, he steps up from hand to hand, will sit contentedly on my shoulder. He will even preen, click sounds and talk back and forth to me. He lets me rub his head. He is a totally different bird when off his cage.

 

Now when I put him back on the cage he seems pissed. He won't take treats. Well, he grabs them from my hand and throws them, he shakes when I talk to him.

 

He seems like such a changed bird off of his cage and now seems mad at me that I had him away from it.

 

Am I helping our bond by spending the time up close and personal, or am I hurting the bond by running him off of his cage with a step up stick?

 

Thanks

Scoop

[Luvparrots]

Both of my greys have been with me since their weaning. I have always interacted with them in their cages so they are comfortable with me in and outside of their quarters. I understand that greys can be cage aggressive. That their cages are their castles more or less. I'm sure others who have cage aggressive greys will pipe here to help you out.

[Greywings]

I would suggest not rushing him, put the stick down and make friends again. You just pushed further than he was comfortable with, now he has to learn trust again.

[judygram]

Jill is right, you have to earn his trust again, many greys view their cage as their safe zone, their territory and do not like any human intrusion, besides you just pushed him too far so back off and be more patient with him as he begins to feel more comfortable.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I cant probably help you. As I have " open cage" policy, I probably differ in my opinion. I would NEVER pick up a bird. Once a bird is interested in step up, or down, they need to trust me. They eventually do. The door is never closed. Nancy

[thenabrd]

we've had kallie about 6 months now. she still won't step up reliably, but always will when she's landed on the floor or someplace unfamiliar to her. in those instances, she does know we're "safe and trustworthy". that's not to say we're not safe and trust worthy everywhere, at all times, but at this point the unfamiliar is where she truly lets us see that we are this to her. she is cage protective about half the time now. at first she was very protective of her cage. after all, it is her home and ultimate safe place. but now, i can rearrange toys about half of the time with her being more curious of what's going on than attacking me, the "great invader".

 

athena, we've had her for 8 years and she is and has always been cage protective! so any time i really need to change stuff around or do a major cleaning, she has to go to a chair or the play area to hang out until i'm done, or else i've got lots of bleeding holes in my hands. i love her to pieces, but she does not mind taking pieces out of me at all!! (in her mind, she is the biggest bird ever created in the entire universe, and when she thinks she's "won" she literally struts her little victorious self all around the place, lol)

 

try to think of this as if someone had taken over your home and wanted to change your routine or the placement of your stuff. until you trust that this someone has your best interest at heart, you'd be rather suspicious and protective. i always explain to the girls when i'm cleaning their cages or rearranging their toys just what i'm doing. i keep it light and cheerful. just be patient, keep explaining, and reinforce that you are trustworthy and safe as often and as much as possible (easier said than done, i know, i remind myself all the time, lol). you have many years to be together, it really does pay off big time in the long run!!

[Barbara2]

thenabrd has given some great insight. These wonderful birds are often compared to children but they are not. They are unlike any other loved one either. Rather than wanting to please like a dog or be trained like a child, they want to belong to the flock. They need to feel that they are safe and have a place. They will bond but have to do so on their terms! (It's a tough pill to swallow.) You need to learn their cues and react in order to make them feel safe and secure.

[Scoop]

Thanks for all the info guys. Curiosity got the best of me, and a little bit of impatience. Ill not chase him off the cage again. Back to the wait.

[chezron]

Besides the good points the others have brought up, I also think mutual respect is a good thing to foster. I think it also helps to let them know that you appreciate them and that they are a valued member of the family with lots of appropriate praise. It seems my CAG gets all puffed up and his chest expands when I tell him what a good boy he is, good flyer, good talker, etc. Try to work around bad situations and think of ways to make all interactions as positive as possible. Sorry I cannot address the cage dominance issue as my guy is not the least bit caring what I do in or around his cage. Remember birds (and most everybody) respond best to positive reinforcement. Figuring out a valued treat may motivate your bird to model a behavior you desire. Good luck and keep asking questions!

[katana600]

Gilbert is our TAG, rehomed, with us for about eight months now. He goes from being sweet, asking to step up from the top of his cage door, to being so aggressive that he tries to bite my fingers when I open a food door to change his food or water as if I am invading and stealing all his food. I found it helped tremedously to put a rope perch in an arch on his door. It is as close to the top of the door, on the inside, as I can get it and still close the door while he is standing on it. If he comes out on this perch he is usually showing me he is ready to have interaction. If he is hunched up on an inner perch, he is either resting or "in a mood". Nine times out of ten, he will perch on the door rope, take an almond from anyone in the family and is generally in a receptive stance. Also, as you noticed, when our birds are on the floor, the instinct to get higher over rides the instinct not to trust a helping hand. When thunder or any other unexpected noise startles Gilbert and he goes to the floor, we certainly take advantage of this to build a trusting moment, but I think if he associated being chased off his safe spot with a rescue from the floor, he is so intelligent that it would work against us. We are still working to earn trust and are still learning the ways of Gilbert. You will get there with Grim, slow and steady. Every hard earned advancement is sure to be a cause for celebration.

[Tias]

I have had the same impatience.....it only hurts the trust unfortunately.....Now that I am the one who cleans her cage....and makes her move...she will only go to my husband (the good guy)...But slowly I will get it back im sure

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Everyone has great ideas! Greys will rule over their cage. Getting them to stepup or down, is tough. Try when you get home... open the door, play a game with the family, or read a book, with the door open in front of him. Do it over and over. You are encouraging him to come out. I guarantee he will eventually comeout. Once my grey was comfortable to step on the door, we continued this pattern. Sophie couldn't resist. ( I ignored her for another week). Once I invited her to stepup.... she was soooo happy! She jumped right in! Step down, was another issue. LOL

The point is.... we made Sophie's life, so inviting, outside of her cage. She decided when to join in. After thirteen years of having her, I have NEVER, put my fingers in her cage, to stepup. If she wants to be part of our family life, she will be on her door and waiting. She's always waiting! I no longer even have to say stepup. When I walk into her room, her foot is up. She says.... " lets go!" Nancy

[Scoop]

Grim's cage is always open if we are home. Lately Ive been leaving it open when I go to work too. He just has no interest in being off of his cage. The only time I have been closing it down is to go night night. It saves me having to run him into his cage more than once a day lol. He is going in pretty good now on his own. When its bed time and I start shutting things down, he goes in because he knows Im coming to get him to go inside. I know he will come around somtime, just sucks waiting.