MarcusCAG Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 As many of you know, we have a flock of diverse species, one of which is a little Lutino cockatiel whom we've named Bunsen. Bunsen didn't have the best background before we adopted him, and he didn't get much one-on-one and/or loving interaction in his former home. We've had him a few months now, and during that time he has learned to step-up, and he flies regularly (he was basically confined to his cage on someone's back porch for about five years, before), and he has learned to enjoy pellets and millet and et cetera... Anyway, Bunsen will contact call when I wake up, when I get in, all that. Otherwise his 'sounds' are just--I don't know, normal? But this morning, I put Bunsen on the little mic stand (haha) by this laptop and he started making these new sounds. They were quick, and short, and a little pathetic and vulnerable-sounding. He had his head lowered and it was like, He wanted head-scritches! So I worked around his crest as much as he would let me, I 'groomed' him with my nose, etc. I thought it was cute and that was the end of it. But just now, a few hours later, we are in the same situation: me on the computer, Bunsen on the mic stand. He started up again, but this time he turned away from me and lowered his head, sticking his butt in the air. He kept making those odd, cute little sounds. I noticed his cloaca was dilating significantly and it hit me, Could Bunsen be a girl? Is that what is considered 'female presentation'? Honestly, once some time ago I had Bunsen out and was interacting with him, when out of the blue Marcus piped up with, "That's a giiiiiiirrrlll." I kind of looked at him like, What are you talking about? but didn't think anything of it, I thought he was just being goofy. Could he have been referring to Bunsen, after all? From what I've described, does it sound like Bunsen is, in fact, a girl? There have been no eggs... I've been under the impression that females generally lay quite a bit, and so the idea is still a bit unexpected for me to contemplate... Thank you in advance for any replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Sounds like that could be the case. Tiels are most easily sexed by the brightness of the orange patches on the cheeks. But especially the birds who aren't normal grays can be deceiving sometimes. My tiels were very hard wired to the seasons in the southern hemisphere. Even though they definitely got frisky in our spring, their breeding season was during our fall. Sundance always seemed to be in a submissive posture. Most often the one who was begging for his wives' attention & to be preened. So Bunsen still sounds like he could be acting like a male teil to me. ...and yep, I do know there are likely to be a few posts about females having the upper hand here Also, this doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do w/mating. I'm convinced that birds need physical contact to be healthy, just like humans. He's been in isolation for a long time. But now he's in a place where he can finally get that contact. And it sounds like he's gotten adjusted enough to be asking for it. So, basically I guess I'm saying that you're going to have to sort this out before you'll know the best way to react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray P Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Hi MarcusCAG, We have had cockatiels for about 40 years and they all loved their head sritched with my nose. I think they like the warm air as you exhale on the back of their neck as you rub their head. The male will be more vocal than the female and the female will chirp more than sing. The lutino can be hard to tell male from female by looks but some say the dark ornge patch and a really yellow head can be a clue to a male. A normal grey cockatiel male will have a very yellow head and dark ornge patch around their ears with a solid dark grey under side of tail feathers The females head will be grey with very little yellow and a barbed marking under side of tail feathers. And yes a female tiel can have eggs with or with out a male. If you wanted little ones and you have a pair all you have to do is put in a nest box. I have had eggs spring, summer, fall, and winter. Edited October 12, 2011 by Ray P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshana Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Did your tiel put his/her wings back in sort of a heart shape? It almost looks like they're standing up straight with their wings flat. If so, that is called heart wings and is a male behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusCAG Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Thank you so much for your replies, birdhouse, Ray P, Eshana... in some respects I don't know what to think now!! If Bunsen starts acting like that again today when he/she is out, then I will look for the "heart wings". I had to Google that term for images to see exactly what I'd be looking for, and I honestly wasn't looking to see how Bunsen's wings were folded when everything was happening before. I was just amazed at the cute, little, odd noises and the fact that he/she kept his/her tail so high in the air. Bunsen does have very bright orange patches on his (her?) cheeks, almost a rust-red in the centers, and a very yellow head compared to the rest of him--which is a bit mottled-looking, some feathers are more beige/white/pale 'butter' in color but have little dots of yellow. I've noticed this when he loses a feather sometimes. It makes me wonder if he is, um, Lutino pied? And I do like the idea of Bunsen being comfortable enough around us, now, to start acting more like a 'normal' cockatiel in wanting affection and attention. That makes me feel very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusCAG Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Eshana: No "heart wings" were visible. So now I'm really confused! And although we're getting Marcus' talons groomed this weekend, my husband shot down the idea of us having Beaker and Bunsen sexed after the session, too (they come to our house). So, since he "likes the mystery", unless I can figure this out on my own I won't know what to think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshana Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Do you have any larger pictures of him? I'm pretty good at visually sexing mutated Cockatiels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusCAG Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 Eshana, would you need a better 'full body shot' or is one of just Bunsen's head okay? I don't know if these are sufficient for you to tell, so I can take some more tomorrow afternoon and post them if that will help. Thank you very much, really, at this point I'm exceptionally curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikachu Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I just gotta say that Bunsen is such a cutie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshana Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Well unfortunately with Bunsens mutation the only way I can really tell is if you can get a good picture of the tailfeathers on the bottom side. The way Bunsen is standing in the latter half makes me think female, though, as males tend to carry themselves differently when standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshana Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Here is a good example from the internet...males, like my Shelby, always hold themselves upright: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 We've had Lutino Cockatiels for 40 years, and it's almost impossible to tell the sex of Lutino's without a DNA test. Unless of course, they start to lay eggs. Our little Sully is now 5, we thought "she" was a he because her cheeks were such a bright orange and her crest was a very bright yellow, there were no bars on her tail feathers either. Wrong we were, she was very vocal with tweets and chatter, but said no true words. Actually the kids said she was "special" and that's why she didn't talk...LOL. We assumed "he" was just slow to talk or wouldn't talk. When "she" was 3 years old, she laid 6 eggs and that solved the mystery. Now, she lays eggs at random times, usually 6-7. She's always very social even when she is sitting on eggs. We leave them in her cage for about a 7-10 days then remove them. She does put her little butt in the air, and her vent opens and closes when she is stroked anywhere on her body. I don't recall my males over the years doing that. So perhaps, Bunsen is a "she" and not a "he." My males all talked and whistled tunes by 9-12 months. Also, they were DNA tested, so I knew the sex from the breeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusCAG Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 My, all of this wonderful input! I am really starting to think that Bunsen is female. there are just a lot of little things that you all have been bringing out that seem to add up to that conclusion. (Of course, I still may be wrong, but the evidence seems to point in that direction.) And Eshana, I will try and get some pics of the underside of Bunsen's tail tomorrow when the light is good--Bunsen's generally very accommodating so it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe your trained eye will be able to verify things for me then... All of you, thank you again for all of your educated and experienced thoughts and comments on the matter. I really appreciate it! Oh, and just an FYI because I mentioned it in an earlier post here: Marcus did have his curly little talons trimmed this morning and he was such a good boy, I was so proud of him! He did 'growl' a little bit at one point while he was wrapped in the towel, hehe, but he didn't hold a grudge at all and was mumbly-chatty with the groomers in a happy way while they were leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusCAG Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Eshana, here are a few photos of Bunsen that I took today. I don't know how helpful the one will be (and the shot of Bunsen on the cagetop was just added for cuteness' sake!), but the photograph of the feather might be of some use. I keep a little plastic 'bucket' of the birds' feathers as they molt out--the nicer-looking ones, anyway--and this feather is one of the ones with the pale yellow speckles on it. Would that be some of the "barring" that I read is particular to female cockatiels? Or perhaps is Bunsen considered pied? Also, in terms of the thought of how Bunsen perches, more vertical or not, could that be applied to other parrot species as well? Tybalt and Marcus stand basically straight up-and-down and I see Beaker more horizontal; it's very obvious when Beaker and Tybalt are perching next to each other. Could that be a sign that maybe Beaker is female, as well? Anyway, thank you again for your input... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshana Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Well, I did not realize from prior pics that Bunsen was a lutino, but I am thinking she is a she. From the way she perches in these new photos, I want to say female. Now, don't go by that 100 percent, and if you want to know your best bet is a DNA test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Eshana, here are a few photos of Bunsen that I took today. I don't know how helpful the one will be (and the shot of Bunsen on the cagetop was just added for cuteness' sake!), but the photograph of the feather might be of some use. I keep a little plastic 'bucket' of the birds' feathers as they molt out--the nicer-looking ones, anyway--and this feather is one of the ones with the pale yellow speckles on it. Would that be some of the "barring" that I read is particular to female cockatiels? Or perhaps is Bunsen considered pied? Also, in terms of the thought of how Bunsen perches, more vertical or not, could that be applied to other parrot species as well? Tybalt and Marcus stand basically straight up-and-down and I see Beaker more horizontal; it's very obvious when Beaker and Tybalt are perching next to each other. Could that be a sign that maybe Beaker is female, as well? Anyway, thank you again for your input... What a beautiful Lutino! He/she is in great feather. I love the pictures, what a sweetie. Great shot of the tail feathers too. I think that it's possible you have a female. I read an article, that says occasionally a male can retain the tail barring. Very interesting! I guess you will need to wait until Bunsen either talks or lays an egg to be positive. If you are very curious and want to know sooner, you can get a DNA done. That's not going to change how much you love him/her though. Here is the link to the article I was reading: http://www.cockatiels.org/main/ncs-photo-gallery/lutino-cockatiels/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusCAG Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Eshana, Katy, thank you so much for your comments! Yes, Bunsen apparently is a female, because today when I was in here I unexpectedly heard all of these disturbing, weird screeching/shrieking noises coming from the birds' room. I went in there and Bunsen had her tail to the sky and her vent was so open and rhythmically dilating; you could have put a marble in there... Tybalt was freaking out in his cage and Beaker was yelling (Marcus seemed rather non-plussed about everything), and once I left again Bunsen died down her caterwauling after a few more minutes. I got the idea to go online just now and found a video of a female cockatiel "in heat" and she sounded exactly the same, with similar body positioning. So--we have a little girl! And a hormonal one at that, at least right now. I'm hoping maybe an earlier bedtime may help with this situation. Any other ideas? I don't need her to start laying if I can help it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Was just reading this thread & I agree Bunsen is female. I've had four cockatiels over the years.... 2 male, 2 female. Yes, the males DO walk more upright & females more horizontal. My male used to try to do the "nasty" on the side of my hand & also on his perch ( i worried about splinters.. LOL) when hormonal. My females make all the garbily, cooing, noises when i pet her , if hormonal. The girls will stick their tail straight up in the air with the vent moving.. (sometimes in the corner of the cage. I can also tell when my female, Gabby, is wanting to lay eggs as she sits in her food bowl & makes noises. BTW, soooooooooooooo proud of Marcus with his vet clipping his nails. What a good boy !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusCAG Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Thank you, Gwen, I very much appreciate all of the 'cockatiel input' everyone has been so kind to offer me recently, I still feel kind of like a newbie with my Bunsen and this issue--funny thing, huh? And yes, I am proud of our Marcus, too... He was such a gentleman during his grooming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Eshana: Did you get my message on cockatiel mutations ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshana Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I PM'd you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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