Tule Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Are onions an acceptable food item? The reason I ask is that my boyfriend LOVES onions, so they are used in just about everything I cook. The most prominent is stir fry, I like to let Tule partake in the leftover vegetables from my plate, usually slightly cooked carrots (how he likes them best), peas, bell peppers, and lots of onions. They have been sautéed and are cooked enough to be clear and sweet. So far I haven't really given him any, instead I pick out the choice veggies and put them on his own plate. So I don't know if he would even like them! But, I googled it and most articles said things like "Until more study has been done you should be aware that there MAY be a potential hazard in having your parrot eat onions." and "Raw onion is not good for parrot as it may contains bacteria in between the layers which may harm the bird..." but goes on to say that cooked onions are probably okay. Do you guys give your birds onions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 http://www.avianweb.com/toxicfoods.html seems to be a pretty good list & it list onions as toxic but says ok in small amounts. I just don't know how to put an actual quantity on "small". I will feed things cooked w/onion that I'll take out before I give it to them. But I just don't get paranoid about fishing every last piece out. So no, I don't usually give my fids onions because they are debatable & I'm always a "better safe than sorry" type where it comes to the fids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Don't take the risk, keep them away from your bird. Not every bird can tolerate small amounts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I don't give me fids onions. My theory for my fids is "When in doubt, leave it out"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tule Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Okay, thanks guys. I won't give him any on purpose, but I won't worry about if he gets a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsjr Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 interesting ive never known onions to be toxic to birds. from that list, there are a lot of plants but not many food items. i knew about chocolate, apple seeds, avocado, mushrooms, caffeine. but not onions or garlic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 http://www.avianweb.com/toxicfoods.html seems to be a pretty good list & it list onions as toxic but says ok in small amounts. I just don't know how to put an actual quantity on "small". I will feed things cooked w/onion that I'll take out before I give it to them. But I just don't get paranoid about fishing every last piece out. So no, I don't usually give my fids onions because they are debatable & I'm always a "better safe than sorry" type where it comes to the fids. They list "curry powder" in the "Unsafe Plants / Fruits & Trees" list. I guess because a lot of curry mixes use coriander? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 "Raw onion is not good for parrot as it may contains bacteria in between the layers which may harm the bird..." but goes on to say that cooked onions are probably okay. Is that a real concern? Onions are acidic and that is a harsh environment for bacteria. (There is an old-wives tale about onions attracting bacteria to keep your house safe, but that is a crock of shit, of course.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Onions have a chemical compound (n-propyl disulfide) that w/continuous feeding will eventually effect red blood cell chemistry. I think basically it can cause things like anemia, jaundice & respiratory failure because it disrupts the way the hemoglobin does its job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Onions have a chemical compound (n-propyl disulfide) that w/continuous feeding will eventually effect red blood cell chemistry. I think basically it can cause things like anemia, jaundice & respiratory failure because it disrupts the way the hemoglobin does its job. Thanks. It is good to see a reason instead of just a blanket "X is bad" without any information on why it is bad, how bad it is or how quickly it can act... That said, how much onion is too much? Does cooking degrade n-propyl disulfide at all? Some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) That's kind of like asking how much cotton candy will it take to give the kids a stomach ache. lol It depends... on a lot of things. But, unlike the candy, this is a long term toxin. Slow poison if you will. Over some length of time it will start to compromise the blood chemistry & bad things will start to happen. I figure that's close enough to keep it away from the fids, since there's nothing good to be gained. And what you said about onions being acidic & not proned to bacteria ...? I don't know about that, but I know onions mold pretty well & that's something to watch out for w/parrots. OOPs... Got to watch Dancing w/the Stars now lol Edited November 9, 2011 by birdhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Does n-propyl disulfide accumulate fully or partially? In other words, is there a mechanism within birds to eliminate part of it? Sure onions mold. But put a cut onion side by side with a whole peach and see which one molds faster! All fruit and vegetables grow mold and bacteria. Look, I'm not saying to feed onions to your bird. I'm just trying to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) Look, I'm not saying to feed onions to your bird. I'm just trying to understand. I get it. But what you're really asking is for more advanced metabolic chemistry than I can manage just because I didn't dose off too often in biology classes. lol It's also why you don't "see a reason instead of just a blanket "X is bad". I can only give you my best GUESS using my VERY limited understanding of physiology from here on. I don't know if cooking changes anything. My guess is, not by much if it does. I think it may just be too much of what makes an onion an onion. I think this is different from heavy metal toxicity. I'm guessing there are ways the body will break this molecule down eventually. It's about the damage it causes in the meantime. All metabolic activity is a function of chemistry. (my chem prof is smiling right now & she doesn't even know why) I may be way off here, but I think a lot of the issues are caused because this molecule may act chemically in the same way as oxygen normally would. But when it attaches to blood hemoglobin, cells use it instead of normal oxygen compounds to do work. So instead of making say a few harmless H2O water molecules like normal, maybe the byproduct from normal blood sugar consumption could become HSO4 which is an acid. Can you see where that would mess things up quite a bit? I'm not saying that's where the bad chemistry actually happens. I just made it up because I hope that's an easier example to understand. As far as the mold observation, yes all fruits & veggies mold. But we don't usually eat them if they have. Onions often have mold under the skin or in the first layers. We can peel those layers off & make the onion safe for human consumption. But that doesn't necessarily mean the fids might not have problems. Edited November 9, 2011 by birdhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thanks. I didn't mean to push you - I was just hoping that, with the vast diversity of occupations of the forum members, SOMEONE might have the explanation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Really, no worries. I don't respond well to "Because I said so.", either. lol There's no way to judge if it's just more disinformation. It also doesn't give you anything useful to apply elsewhere. On some levels, I can understand how this compound denatures blood. Just not well enough to try to explain the chemistry especially in writing for someone. Even if it's not about the specific chemistry or target organ(s) I hope the analogy worked well enough to help though. Speaking of occupations; any possibility you might be an engineer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Speaking of occupations; any possibility you might be an engineer? Is it really that obvious? While I have been in sales (drive/control systems for port cranes) for many years, I have a masters in electrical engineering. Data, confirmed sources, etc. There are some things (onions) where I can easily say, "Better safe than sorry". I may or may not be able to eliminate some of the other supposed dangers. As such, it is key to understand the severity, the timing, the mechanism AND the mitigation (if any) of the dangerous item/substance. Speaking of which, "Better safe than sorry" is the least useful answer on this forum (and other similar forums). It provides no information. All it does is take up space and show that the poster is still alive. (Although a spambot could do it just as easily...) Ugh... Any way, back to onions... Since I use onions HEAVILY in my cooking, it is a concern for me. I have to avoid giving Ellie any of the food that I prepare, such as tomato sauce. (I make up a big batch of tomato sauce and pressure "can" it.) Now I have to worry if substantial amounts of n-propyl disulfide get in the air. (I'm assuming that this is the substance that brings tears to our eyes while chopping, so it obviously gets airborne.) Will it have the same effect if breathed in? Should I keep Ellie out of the kitchen when I'm cooking? Sigh. This is so much more complicated than dogs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Speaking of which, "Better safe than sorry" is the least useful answer on this forum (and other similar forums). It provides no information. All it does is take up space and show that the poster is still alive. (Although a spambot could do it just as easily...) Ugh... Since I use onions HEAVILY in my cooking, it is a concern for me. I have to avoid giving Ellie any of the food that I prepare, such as tomato sauce. (I make up a big batch of tomato sauce and pressure "can" it.) Sigh. This is so much more complicated than dogs... LOL, I have called the information "Spam" many times and you find tons of it on all parrot websites hit for poisonous items when searched for. Many things like Apple seeds, true enough if a human, horse or parrot ate a 100 pounds of them they would become very ill, most spit them out, as do my parrots. I have also seen grape seeds on many of these parrot lists, they are not harmful at all and actually contain healthy benefits for humans and parrots. Most of this is due to people on the web copying/pasting and adding a little of their own opinion to them. Thus, the wives tales just keep rolling on. Onions - proven to be harmful to Dogs. Not so for Parrots. I do allow my Parrots to have a little food off our dinner plates, which does sometimes include food prepared with a pinch of garlic and onion. As with many things, moderation is the key. Your parrot could have Vitamin A poisoning if they ate a ton of carrots, yams etc for days on end, but the other side is, they will suffer from a deficiency if they do not consume enough. I do however tend to be the type of person that will avoid things that are "Suspect", but very small quantities of these items are not cumulative over time and I do allow small portions. I am still 50/50 on if the earth is flat or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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