Mikko's new cage

[Joe Bachi]

Hi guys,

Since I bought Mikko he's been staying in a small cage:

________________

|Height: 54.5 cm |

|Width: 42 cm |

|Depth: 31.5 cm |

|________________|

 

So I decided to buy him a big one with the money I got from my summer job:

_________________

|Height: 164 cm |

|Width: 58 cm |

|Depth: 58 cm |

|________________|

 

 

Unfortunately this new cage won't fit in my room so I had to put it on my room's balcony.

It's covered from 3 sides basically (wall, door, closet) so I don't think cold will be much of a problem.

However I do worry that it will be a problem when it comes to training and bonding so I'm thinking of putting a T-stand in my room and a leg chain on it so that he can be with me when I'm home

(Though I'm still unsure of the leg chain thing )

Any advice?

Regards

Joe

[JeffNOK]

I'm a little concerned about your grey being outside once winter comes. I know Lebanon can get quite cold at night. Is there anyway you can enclose your balcony and provide heat? This situation worries me. Also, I know that this cage may seem big to you, but it is actually still quite small for a grey. 75 cm width would be considered a minimum=90-100 cm much better. The t-stand idea is good, but why do you want a leg chain? That is a concern as well.

[Talon]

Yes, I agree with Jeff. It is a small cage, and outdoors is not a calming place, never mind weather issues. And why a leg chain?????? I dont mean any disrespect, but i have to say......Seems like more of a prisoner than a family member.

[judygram]

This thread bothers me a lot, why even get a bird when you have no room for a cage inside your house and keeping it outside is no answer especially as the cold weather comes and don't even get me started on the use of a leg band to keep your bird on a playstand, I feel for this bird.

[chezron]

Can you swap the cage for one that fits in your house. A bird should be with you. The leg-chain thing - Are you prepared to get a bird? It sounds like you NEED to do a lot more research before getting one, or even not getting one.

[JeffNOK]

Joe, are you living with your parents? Is there another room in the house where your bird cage can be placed?

[Dave007]

Are leg chains for birds used in your country?

 

That style cage is the wrong type for a CAG. CAGs don't go up and down on a regular basis.

90% of the time, they move left to right or right to left. 10% is up and down.

[Joe Bachi]

Joe, are you living with your parents? Is there another room in the house where your bird cage can be placed?

I'm 17 so naturally I live with my parents , and no there is no spare room

 

Are leg chains for birds used in your country?

 

That style cage is the wrong type for a CAG. CAGs don't go up and down on a regular basis.

90% of the time, they move left to right or right to left. 10% is up and down.

Yes they are, it's not something I came up with (I had to order a harness from America cz they don't even know what a bird harness is here)

And yes I did realize that a parrot cage should be wider than it's height but these are the only ones on the market here, I had to wait a month for this one to come in.

 

Everyone here should understand that bird and pet care here is way different than yours and I know that what I am doing may be considered as cruelty to you but it's actually luxury here!

 

So before you start making outrageous statements why not bother and ask what the standards for pet care are where I live !!! (Not you Dave, or any of the others who tried to ask Qs and give advice)

[Joe Bachi]

And BTW, when I say "outside", this is what I mean:

As you can see the cage is surrounded by the grey closet's back, the wall, my glass door (I took the pics from this side) and finally the opened side of the balcony which has a curtain that can be closed during the winter (I'm going to buy a transparent one so that sunlight would penetrate but not wind and rain).

Hope that clears things a bit

[Mr. T]

you do realize that by your logic your basically saying something along the lines of:

 

Its ok! because other people here do it too!

 

But its really not ok, nor is it ok to take an animal out of its natural environment and put it in a cage thats too small or shackle it to a post for your own enjoyment regardless of the fact it may be a normal luxury for you. How would you feel if a bird bought you, stuck you in a broom closet to live in and when you were allowed out of that closet they tied you to a wall?

 

I think you should seriously consider what is best for the animal and not yourself. If your limited on space but still want an bigger bird why not look for something in between like a cockatiel or conure. I think most people on here will agree these birds are pretty demanding pets not only psychologically but physically as well. If you cannot properly provide both its kind of selfish to take either of those needs away from the bird.

[Barbara2]

From my perspective, this forum is the best for support and education. Some members come here with situations that are less than ideal. I have seen a few people who have no real experience but have ended up with very young, unweaned babies. Members here have supported them with information and suggestions for caring for these babies and helping them along the way to becoming healthy adult birds without encouraging others to take on unweaned babies. As well meaning as we are, sometimes advice can come across as lectures and not only turn people off but chase them away. The advice that I would like to suggest is forget the leg chain. If you are concerned about your bird flying out an open window or door, clipping might be the better option for now until you can get out on your own and have more control over your environment. I don't really know what to say about the cage location and protection from the elements because I'm still not quite understanding the whole set up.

[Mr. T]

I completely agree with you and did not mean to come across as a total jerk (sorry joe but reality is tough sometimes) In the last few years I cannot even begin to tell you how many birds I have seen go to "unprepared" owners and its very disheartening watching a beautiful bird take it out on themselves.

[Joe Bachi]

you do realize that by your logic your basically saying something along the lines of:

 

Its ok! because other people here do it too!

 

But its really not ok, nor is it ok to take an animal out of its natural environment and put it in a cage thats too small or shackle it to a post for your own enjoyment regardless of the fact it may be a normal luxury for you. How would you feel if a bird bought you, stuck you in a broom closet to live in and when you were allowed out of that closet they tied you to a wall?

 

I think you should seriously consider what is best for the animal and not yourself. If your limited on space but still want an bigger bird why not look for something in between like a cockatiel or conure. I think most people on here will agree these birds are pretty demanding pets not only psychologically but physically as well. If you cannot properly provide both its kind of selfish to take either of those needs away from the bird.

 

NO that's not what you should conclude, if you read well enough you'd find that what I'm really trying to say is:"This whole thing is new and odd to me and I'm trying to do my best but change doesn't come overnight so please help me make the best of a bad situation by giving me useful advice"

 

Sorry to whoever gets offended by this post.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Joe Bachi

[Mr. T]

Good Luck Joe! I wish nothing but the best for you and Miko and I am very sorry if I offended you.

[Joe Bachi]

I completely agree with you and did not mean to come across as a total jerk (sorry joe but reality is tough sometimes) In the last few years I cannot even begin to tell you how many birds I have seen go to "unprepared" owners and its very disheartening watching a beautiful bird take it out on themselves.

 

That's where I would like to bring up the point that Mikko is very happy at the moment as he "purrs" all day and loves to spend time with me while we train

 

I'm just concerned that I might be unconsciously endangering his life that's why I joined this forum in the first place

Edited September 13, 2011 by Joe Bachi

[Luvparrots]

Joe, I commend you for instead of getting angry you are trying to make others understand the circumstances of the situation. I personally have a jess that a falconer crafted for me for my small Timneh African Grey. Ana Grey doesn't particularly like the aviator harness and has accepted the jess. It works for me and my grey who is totally bonded to me. As you have discovered, we love our greys like family and some get over protective. Please continue to ask your questions as we are all here to help and to learn from each other.

Edited September 13, 2011 by luvparrots

[birdhouse]

you do realize that by your logic your basically saying something along the lines of:

 

Its ok! because other people here do it too!

 

But its really not ok, nor is it ok to take an animal out of its natural environment and put it in a cage thats too small or shackle it to a post for your own enjoyment regardless of the fact it may be a normal luxury for you. How would you feel if a bird bought you, stuck you in a broom closet to live in and when you were allowed out of that closet they tied you to a wall?

 

I think you should seriously consider what is best for the animal and not yourself. If your limited on space but still want an bigger bird why not look for something in between like a cockatiel or conure. I think most people on here will agree these birds are pretty demanding pets not only psychologically but physically as well. If you cannot properly provide both its kind of selfish to take either of those needs away from the bird.

 

 

 

 

What he's saying is that this is the way it's been done in many parts of the world for many hundreds of years.

 

He's saying that he's trying to do everything he can to keep improving things, inspite of not having all the advantages some of us can't & won't even try to imagine living without.

 

He's saying he cares enough to do all he can to find out what's best for this bird.

 

In fact, he cares enough to have opened himself up to some very strong ridicule from some people who he's looked to for knowledge & advice.

 

This might be a very good time to remember that this is an international forum whose readers live many different types of lives.

 

We can impose our idea of the world on the people who come here for knowledge & we can judge them OR we can work together to help each other.

[JeffNOK]

Joe, From the looks of your balcony, it does seem better than I imagined, but see if you can insulate it a little when winter comes if possible. Just some clear plastic and maybe a little portable space heater would be an improvement. I'm sorry if you felt a bit attacked. I hope you know my intention was to be helpful really. I know you are learning. I'm learning too and I have a long way to go.

[Joe Bachi]

Alright, so thanks to BirdHouse's help and advice I was able to come up with a new arrangement:

When I'm away at school or somewhere else and during the night, Mikko will stay in the big cage outside.

When I'm home and on cold days, Mikko will stay in the smaller cage in my room with the cage door open so that he can get out if he wants to.

However this arrangement will pose the problem of transferring Mikko from cage to cage especially since one of the cages is on the balcony and cannot be brought inside unless I remove the door

So any advice on that?

Regards

Joe

[Dave007]

I'm 17 so naturally I live with my parents , and no there is no spare room

 

 

Yes they are, it's not something I came up with (I had to order a harness from America cz they don't even know what a bird harness is here)

And yes I did realize that a parrot cage should be wider than it's height but these are the only ones on the market here, I had to wait a month for this one to come in.

 

Everyone here should understand that bird and pet care here is way different than yours and I know that what I am doing may be considered as cruelty to you but it's actually luxury here!

 

So before you start making outrageous statements why not bother and ask what the standards for pet care are where I live !!! (Not you Dave, or any of the others who tried to ask Qs and give advice)

 

 

First off, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I simply asked a question and tried to explain the different sized cages and who they applied to, so instead of just leaving it like that I'll get into more detail-------

 

In the US, leg chains are still used but the only ones using them are professional bird handlers. All of these birds are predators---eagles, falcons, hawks, peregrines, owls, kingfishers etc etc. These people travel around the country to show what predatory birds are like and how they live. These shows usually take place in areas that are as big as the inside of a airplane hanger. These places can usually accomodate about 2 to 3 hundred people. There's usually about 3 handlers with the birds at these shows. So, these birds are specially trained so that when they're on stage having a leg chain on them tells the bird that they can't fly away whether it's a short or long distance. They remain stationary. When the chain comes off, the handlers begin the seminar and show. At these shows, there's a lot of flying going on. So, these people use leg chains to train the birds--other people used leg chains on their birds to restrain their birds---basically parrots. That's where the problem arises. Parrots are birds of prey. Their first line of defence is to instantly fly away from any major or minor situation that may be going on. All parrots have delicate legs and they can snap like toothpicks. A parrot with a chain on it can very easily and seriously hurt itself. That's why I asked you about leg chains. Leg chains can still be purchased but few people use them anymore. There are other items that can help your situation but it may involved shipping from one place to another ( from 1 country to another) I say that because I have no idea what products are sold in your country.

The cage--there's different types of cages for different species. A tall narrow cage that has a few toys in it can actually decrease the amount of free space in the cage.

So, I'm not trying to make life difficult--just some facts.

 

 

PS----*******There are other items that can help your situation but it may involved shipping from one place to another ( from 1 country to another****

 

 

Forget that sentence since you already did it

Edited September 13, 2011 by Dave007

[Joe Bachi]

First off, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I simply asked a question and tried to explain the different sized cages and who they applied to, so instead of just leaving it like that I'll get into more detail-------

 

In the US, leg chains are still used but the only ones using them are professional bird handlers. All of these birds are predators---eagles, falcons, hawks, peregrines, owls, kingfishers etc etc. These people travel around the country to show what predatory birds are like and how they live. These shows usually take place in areas that are as big as the inside of a airplane hanger. These places can usually accomodate about 2 to 3 hundred people. There's usually about 3 handlers with the birds at these shows. So, these birds are specially trained so that when they're on stage having a leg chain on them tells the bird that they can't fly away whether it's a short or long distance. They remain stationary. When the chain comes off, the handlers begin the seminar and show. At these shows, there's a lot of flying going on. So, these people use leg chains to train the birds--other people used leg chains on their birds to restrain their birds---basically parrots. That's where the problem arises. Parrots are birds of prey. Their first line of defence is to instantly fly away from any major or minor situation that may be going on. All parrots have delicate legs and they can snap like toothpicks. A parrot with a chain on it can very easily and seriously hurt itself. That's why I asked you about leg chains. Leg chains can still be purchased but few people use them anymore. There are other items that can help your situation but it may involved shipping from one place to another ( from 1 country to another) I say that because I have no idea what products are sold in your country.

The cage--there's different types of cages for different species. A tall narrow cage that has a few toys in it can actually decrease the amount of free space in the cage.

So, I'm not trying to make life difficult--just some facts.

 

Sorry if one of my posts was unclear but I never said that YOU were trying to "give me a hard"

Anyway, thank you for the useful info but what were the other suggestions u had?

[Talon]

I respect the fact that you are here for help. We are trying to offer you suggestions, advice based on the needs of these marvulous creatures. But please understand, that we are not a bunch of stuck up snobs who think our way is the right way, we are a family which (and we welcome you with open arms) who have seen the outcome of a bird who is in too small a cage, etc.

 

That being said, i would NEVER leave my bird outside in a cage un attended. There is so much that can happen, even if a predator cant get to them thru the bars, your bird is terrorized for life if anything happens to frighten him in the least. So many things can scare them, things we would never understand as frightening. I DO hope you can find a better solution to housing your bird, these birds really do need space and lots of attention. And NEVER have an open window, no matter how much they are clipped. I speak from experience in listening to too many stories of birds that were clipped and now they are gone.