Here to do Research

[Everyday Miracles]

(Note: I write long intros. Apologies in advance and thanks in advance to anybody who reads through this entire thing!)

 

Hi everyone. I am not a parrot owner, nor have I ever owned a parrot of any kind. I've always loved birds and in particular parrots, but although my parents allowed me to have many pets growing up, birds were simply never an option. My mother still doesn't particularly like birds. It's rather ironic considering that I've owned snakes, rats, mice, sugar gliders, turtles, cats and dogs throughout my entire life and that even when I was considering an exotic cat, my parents barely blinked. Mention a parrot, and it's as though I've declared that I've decided to join the army and put my life on the line.

 

Now, I'm an adult. I don't have any reason to particularly care what my parents think. My mother had a small fit when we chose a Rottweiler as our family dog (and we did so for very good reasons, including the fact that we've had two robberies in the past seven years). Libby is about to turn a year old and my parents adore our puppy. She's a wonderful dog and they've learned a lot about her. I'm hoping that it might be the same thing if they got to know a parrot. And of course, I live in another state, so it's really none of their business unless we travel with the bird instead of having somebody to bird-sit (I prefer to travel with our pets, but I know that not all birds will tolerate it).

 

I'm here to do some research. I remember when I got my first large snake (rehomed when I became pregnant due to the fact that the snake could have eaten my child -- and before anybody gets on me, snakes don't bond the way that intelligent creatures [such as birds or most mammals] do) that I was a member of a snake forum and there were some members who were jumping at buying an Anaconda as their first pet snake. I was right there amongst those who were saying "Are you CRAZY?!?" Now I write articles on choosing a pet snake, snake husbandry, etc, even though I no longer own any. I think that the research is important. You want to know what you're getting into.

 

Maybe I sound like a contradiction in terms. I want my first bird to be an African Grey, an animal that is significantly more intelligent than, say, a parakeet. However, some years ago a breeder once told me that your first bird should always be the bird that you really want because that's the bird that you will bond with and the one that you're less likely to abandon due to lack of interest. Besides, I'll be honest; I don't want a house full of birds because I started with a cockatiel, then got a Sun Conure (the recommendation I've received in the distant past on a pet forum once upon a time). I want an African Grey. Not five or six birds of varying species. If that's what I wanted, I'd build an aviary (which still sounds rather nice, now that I think about it).

 

The reason that I'm here is to learn as much as I can. When my husband and I purchased our sugar gliders, certain negatives of the species were downplayed in the research material I made available to myself (because I wasn't bright enough, apparently, to join Glider Central before obtaining the gliders -- long story). While I don't regret my decision, some precautions would have been nice to have had, such as information on staving off the fruit flies which tend to come with animals that eat massive amounts of fresh fruit and vegetables. In short, what I'm looking for now is the good, the bad, and the ugly of Grey ownership.

 

I want book recommendations. I want personal anecdotes (which I'm sure I'll find plenty of on a site like this). I want to see pictures. I want to hear about rescues. I want to know about breeders. I want to know about compatibility with other pets (gliders and bird will be kept in separate rooms due to the general dust issues for the gliders and the odor issues for the bird. Or, on the flip side, I research for another twelve or so years before I get a bird. That's how long I researched sugar gliders!). I want to know about diet. I want to know about proper caging. I want to know about training. I want to know about toilet issues. Many of these questions can be answered by books and static websites, but I feel that when you lose the human touch on something like this you just aren't getting the whole picture.

 

Anyway, that's it from me. Sorry for the massive introduction. It's pretty typical of me.

[birdhouse]

Hi Everyday Miracles.

 

I guess every type of pet enthusiast would say that their type of critter is incredibly complex & special. So it may just sound like more of the same to say it about parrots. But I'll say it anyway & tell you it's an understatement.

 

Especially where it comes to African Grey parrots. I'll also say that a Grey for a first time bird owner is a bit like starting w/an Anaconda, to use your snake analogy, just a little less dangerous.

 

That said, I think you'll be amazed at the vast wealth of information you'll read on these forums. There are posts here from a large, active international membership of every type of bird owner from rank novice up. I think it's a real treasure trove of avian knowledge, kind of unique & about as far from a static website as you can get.

 

So, mho is to start by reading http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?19849-The-Parrot-Bite-Me!!!-Club Then just browse thru the Grey Lounge & Training Forums & start posting all the specific questions that come to mind.

Edited August 29, 2011 by birdhouse

[Everyday Miracles]

Well, keeping with the analogy, there is nothing wrong with keeping a Yellow Anaconda as a first snake (because the discussion was of a Yellow and not a Green -- the yellows are more dangerous, IME) provided that you've done your research. People used to ask me, when they'd see my corn snake (the smallest and least dangerous snake I owned at the time) and would ask me "does it bite?" My answer was always "if it has a mouth, it can bite and it probably will." My Rottweiler has bitten me. One of my sugar gliders can get really nasty if she's feeling particularly hormonal (she's prone to hormonal fits of temper). No matter how cute and cuddly the animal is, no matter how affectionate or well trained, chances are that at some point, you're going to get a bite. How bad the bite is depends on several factors, including your handling of the animal, the species and breed of the animal, and how you handle it when you do get bit. Thankfully my Burmese Python never bit me -- they have a ton of teeth and are very strong, not to mention enormous (one of the largest species of snakes in the world, and the largest snake ever in captivity was a Burmese Python).

 

That being said, one of the things I learned most from herp ownership is that the animal which will get the best husbandry is the one that you most want. It sounds unfair, I'm sure, but if I were ever to get another snake (and I probably won't just because I don't know where I'd put the snake I really want), it wouldn't be another corn snake. I'd go straight for a Boa Constrictor (BCI) or a Burmese Python because that's what I want. And with a lot of research, I was able to make both species work very well for my family (though compared to the temperament of an African Grey parrot, they are relatively docile without a lot of work "taming" them. Besides, taming a snake is impossible. They lack the part of the brain that causes emotion, and an animal without emotions cannot be tamed).

 

FWIW, I didn't just look at an African Grey and say "oh, pretty! I want that!" I'm not saying that you implied that I did but I've known a lot of people who make choices in pets that way. Heck, I own a Rottweiler, and that's a breed that commonly experiences problems with unprepared owners choosing a breed that can easily overpower them (and heck, I've known owners who aren't as smart as their dogs are. This is not a biddable breed, but at least they're intelligent about it!). I've gotten to know a few Greys, compared them to birds of other species that I like, and then said "I like the look and personality of the Grey, so that's the bird I want."

 

That being said, I wouldn't be too disappointed if I "had" to start off with a Sun Conure They're beautiful birds, but those I've known were very ill bred. My concern is that I want to be able to give sufficient attention to the animals that I have. I want a bird to devote myself to. Anyway, when I get a slice of time I'm going to read through the thread that you gave me. I'm e-mailing it to myself since I use several computers at home.

 

On that note, does anybody know of a very good social bookmarking site? I'm not happy with any of the ones I know of and Tagfoot closed recently (pretty upset about that!).

[Luvparrots]

Welcome to you Everyday Miracles, thanks for the very thorough introduction. Very interesting. My first parrot is my sweet Ana Grey, a timneh African Grey, the smaller of the two African greys. She and I are totally bonded and I have learned oodles about greys from this very friendly and welcoming forum. So enjoy getting to know everyone and read, read, read. We are all here for you!

[judygram]

Most people would probably say you should start out with a smaller bird before getting a larger one but if you do your research I don't see why it would be a problem as long as you know what you are getting into and I realize you only want one bird though most of us who have more than one bird probably thought that one was enough but one only whets the appetite for more hence we are afflicted with MBS.

I did start out with a smaller bird, a sun conure that is a delight to have and then I wanted something else, something larger and I thought about it and decided that I wanted an african grey so I did research to find all I could about them so I could give her what she needs hence I did not buy her on a whim. Later I considered getting another bird but hadn't decided on what I wanted and one just showed up in my backyard one day last summer, a cockatiel that I couldn't find her owners so I kept her so now I have 3 fids and that is enough.

Greys like other birds can be messy, some throw food and chew things up, they have a dander that requires frequent baths and household dusting, they can mimic sounds that are perfect copies of the real thing to confuse you while they have you going around in circles. Greys in general are usually quiet compared to some other species such as the toos and macaws that can have ear splitting screams but they have their moments when they are very vocal.

Some people liken a grey's coloring to a pigeon, in fact some people think a grey is a pigeon but their color is not dull, in fact I think they are one of the most beautiful of the parrots, what they lack in bright colors they make up in the luster of their feathers, that feathery layering of the grey colors, some light and some dark against that bright red tail, that face with the white around the eye makes for a striking pose when they stand, very regal almost like royalty.

Please do read thru the many threads as you will find lots of firsthand experience and information that will help you get to know what its like to have a grey in your life, I have no doubt that you will find it will be the best thing you have ever done.

[Everyday Miracles]

What's interesting, I think, is that if I hadn't had the sugar gliders I don't know that I'd be prepared for bird mess. Nothing ever could have prepared me for the messiness of sugar gliders. They knock food out of their bowls all the time; they spit the shell of whatever they eat everywhere (the walls near their cage are stained purple from when I made the mistake of giving them blueberries). And there is a distinctive smell that I didn't anticipate until I owned them. The breeder warned us, and we purchased females for that reason (even neutered males have a stronger smelling urine than the females) but nothing really prepared me for what I was getting into. I'd never trade them for anything in the world. I love our little girls like crazy. But even fifteen years of research doesn't quite measure up to the real thing. Some things you have to experience for yourself.

 

One of the reasons I'm intent on only one bird is that we don't have a particularly large house, and the floor plan leaves something to be desired. I'm going to need to set up a room for the gliders (or at least that's my plan) since their odor won't mix with the bird and the bird's dust won't mix with their lungs. The only concern that the (sugar glider) breeder had with us keeping gliders and a bird in the same house was predation, but I don't think that an African Grey is going to go hunting down our sugar gliders, who aren't loose in the house in the first place. (That was a tangent -- sorry.) We're looking at at least two large cages in the house and I need to increase the size of the glider cage to a good full-sized flight cage (try finding one with adequate bar spacing -- I'm still struggling to find what I want without going with CHEAP).

 

I've done some reading over the past few days and am formulating some questions that I want to ask. I think that I'm going to start with housing since I'd like to have my husband build an aviary if at all possible. We'd been considering it with our snakes (not an aviary, but a decorative but functional reptarium), but we never got to the point of figuring out how to make the enclosures for the Burms lock. Our concern was that a visitor might think "Oooh! Pretty!" and try to handle the snakes or that someone looking after our pets in our absence might get foolish enough to try to open the enclosure without a spotter. Combination locks were the only way we could come up with. I suspect there are fewer logistical issues with an aviary

[Dave007]

Normally, this area is for short welcomes and intros but in your case I'll talk about the things you said in this area but there are other sections here which more people read. That's where many questions, answers, opinions, facts are posted. All of the rooms are designed for specifics.

 

So, I'll try to give bits and pieces of info but it'll take a long time to decipher so my answers and info to you will given as I reread all of the posts that you put in.All of that information won't be in this post.

 

I'll start out by saying that all your experiences with snakes has to be put on a back burner because the 2 species of animals have nothing to do with each other. Keeping both species means nothing because of how the animal's personalities are. The major thing here is that snakes are a predatory animal. Parrots aren't. They're flock animals There are birds that are strictly carnivorious and also can't be classified as pet birds. Eagle, falcons. Hawks, owls etc. They will kill parrots.

 

Snakes are not pets nor have they ever been pets. A person gets a snake and puts it into an environment that's small and totally unnatural for many reasons. A person changes that. The more good things that a person adds to this environment such as creating a beautiful habitat that it normally lives in or giving that particular type of snake the food it normally eats only alienates the snake from the person. That whole picture is normal. The best way to see a snake in it's living quarters is to have very little in that area that the snake can hide in. All snakes want to hide. There are no snakes that don't wanna hide. So snakes are a creature that does best when people don't interfere with their outdoor life style. If they do interfere, anything a snake will do is unnatural.

 

Parents-----If you were living at home with them and they wanted nothing to do with the parrot, it would cause a problem. A parrot, especially a grey needs to be socialized into the family environment. Ever hear a one person grey. It's not a good situation and everything has to be done to make the bird feel comfortable with all members. The other people need to be a part of the bird's life whether it be big or small. Luckily, your parents aren't there. If they were, there would be problems.

 

Well, a person may say that putting a parrot in a cage is also unnatural. To a point, it's true but the major difference is that a person has to be prepared to let the bird of of the cage for long periods of the day. That's one of the ways a parrot gets involved with different people--flying to a shoulder, giving kisses, wanting to be rubbed or petted, wanting to cuddle. All day long the bird has a multitude of things it says and I don't mean human words. All parrots talk whether it's in their natural language or mimicing human words. The trick is to understand parrotese which takes a while. A parrot has to be in a situation that when it wants to be alone, it can do that easily. A parrot shows that it's comfortable in many ways.

 

Persons who breed greys-----There's only so much that a person can learn from a breeder who only has the animal for a few months. The good breeder will

1----only allow the person to take the bird home after it's been totally weaned

2----will allow a person to visit and watch as the bird gets older and nearer to that weaning age

3----will give a guarantee or warranty or a refund if there's a problem with the bird.

4----will allow the person to take the bird to a vet to get a * alls well* check. Some breeders do that themselves or give a buyer a certain amount of time to get it done.

5---will give instructions on feeding.

6--will tell what is needed as far as living quarters are concerned.

7---will tell a person to call when problems crop up and advice is needed.

 

I've been involved with greys for 25 yrs. I'm also one of the few breeders here. Pictures of my chicks are posted in many places on this board. Others will testify to that.

 

So for now, I'll leave it at that so you can digest some of these facts. There are more though. This reply is just for simple things.

 

Feel free to talk in other sections here so that more people will read, respond, answer questions, give personal experiences.

 

PS--the parakeet that you refer to is actually a budgie. True parakeets are large, long birds that are exremely popular in Australia.

The cockatiel you refer to is a distant relative of the cockatoo.

Budgies and parakeets are parrots. So are cockatiels.

Not all cockatoos are good as pets. A prime example is the Leadbetter cockatoo. Probably the most beautiful but also one of the most aggressive birds in the parrot world. Only very experienced people can handle them.

Not all amazon parrots can be pets. There's approx 30 types and only about 10 can be kept as pets.

Sugar gliders---any animal which can easily jump from one place to another (such as on a cage) will be a problem for a parrot. There's no way to train a glider from doing that. It's natural for them and that includes all possums that can do that. Basically, a glider is a relative of the possum.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Dave007

[animalINSPIRED]

We have four sugar gliders and a grey and have no problems. Their cages are in two different parts of the house and we have a glider-proofed room that the gliders get out in that Averi doesn't have access to. Also gliders are nocturnal, so Averi's normally in her night cage before the gliders get up. Gliders and birds can work together, just like birds and dogs can work together. You just have to take the necessary precautions.