Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Hi all, was wondering if some of you can give us your opinions since our Grey has never been sick before. She started wheezing tonight when I got home (had been fine this morning and last night). When she is at rest she doesn't do it but when she gets excited she always breathes REALLY hard and then it is quite noticeable. As I said, she has never been sick. She'll be 3 years old next April. She's acting pretty normal - playing with me and such. She's eating, drinking, and talking, although she doesn't seem to want to do her animal noises which she normally loves. There is no discharge from her nostrils, beak, etc and they appear clear as far in as I can see. Her heartbeat and temp are normal. I'm thinking it may be due to my fiance using a spray-on carpet cleaner. We were told by the vet it was safe, but I still only use it for spot treatment. My fiance cleaned a fair portion of the carpet today, however, and the odor was fairly strong when I got home (she knows better - even though the vet said it was safe I prefer to be on the safer side - but didn't think about it I guess). I immediately took her outside for fresh air, opened the doors and windows in the house, and aired it out. I brought her back in an hour or two later. I didn't notice her wheezing then but she was relaxed. Anyhow, I just took her out to play and it was fairly noticeable still when she got excited. I would have taken her to the vet right away but the only avian vet is 2 hours drive away and was closed already for the night. We have an emergency vet here in town (notoriously poorly run), so I called them and asked if they have an avian vet. They said "well, kind of - we have someone that can look at her". This did not inspire confidence, especially at their rate of $500. I decided to wait until morning, see how she is doing, and call the vet 2 hours away rather than subject her to a probably useless trip to see the scam artists at the emergency vet. We had a VERY poor experience there once with our ill rabbit, btw. Anyhow, I'm worried about her and thought I would ask your opinions here. The carpet cleaner was Formula 409. I can't think of anything else that could cause the wheezing other than an infection of some sort, but it seems a coincidence. Anyhow, and thoughts or advice would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Oh, and there is no sneezing, coughing, clicking, or gravelly/rattling sounds - just wheezing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Well, her wheezing got worse tonight around midnight so I felt I had no choice but to bring her to the Emergency Vet Clinic. I could tell her breathing was labored since her poor tailfeathers would move every time she took a breath and she was breathing through her beak rather than her nostrils as she usually does. So we took her to the vet. I went to the door alone first and requested to speak to the vet on duty. They refused, saying I could not speak to her regarding anything until our credit card was charged $175 for a deposit. I obliged, and we were allowed in the door. After a 3.5 hour ordeal of sitting in a waiting room alone (we were the only ones there), the doctor finally saw us. I think they were angry since they wanted to take our Grey to a room without us but I refused - they took our rabbit to another room the last time we were there and I could literally hear her screaming - she passed away that night when we returned home. So we were allowed to sit in this time. The vet listened to her chest, then told us she probably had an allergic reaction to the fumes even though the cleaner is supposedly ok for birds. She prescribed Medicam to relieve the inflamation in her airway. She also prescribed an antibiotic. After waiting another hour to get the medication, they suggested a nebulizer treatment at a price of $175 more dollars. I told them I would bring her into the bathroom and mist it up with the shower instead. So we left 4.5 hours later and $500 lighter in the wallet. Hopefully the Medicam works......I'm going to bed...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 So haven't been to sleep yet - the wheezing is a little worse this AM, she's now acting strange, she won't eat, and when she goes to the bathroom it is just like water. I also looked up Medicam and from what I can tell it isn't even useful as a respiratory anti-inflamatory. So I called our vet this AM and was told they no longer treat birds. They recommended a vet around 3 hours away. So I called them and was told it is a $200 "specialist" fee to have her sen, not including any treatments, and that they may need to keep her over the weekend at a cost of $90 per day. I asked if I could speak to the doctor about the medication the emergency vet gave us and was told not until we pay and bring her in. I'm not sure what to do at this point. They won't see her without payment up front and after spending $500 last night it will be everything I have for the entire next week. I'm starting to get increasingly worried about her, however, and have no idea what to do. Even if I bring her and pay the $200, however, if she needs treatment I won't have enough........these vets are ridiculous and obviously only care about the money. I really don't want to subject her to 6 hours in the car either, especially since when she gets scared she starts to breath very hard and the wheezing gets worse. Anyone have any advice? I could have killed my fiance this morning....... Oh, and I tried the nebulization treatment suggested by the emergency vet and she had difficulty breathing with the humid air and was in obvious distress so I discontinued it........gave her the Medicam - 10 units or .1 ccs. Anyone care to offer advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Apparently the vet spelled it wrong on the label - the correct spelling is Metacam, FYI........ So the dose last night did nothing. I just gave her a double dose now and I think she got most of it down (hard to tell with a beak). She sounds significantly better now but I'm more worried about the long-term effects and the not eating....... What a night.......I'm exhausted and stressed......but scared to leave her to go to sleep........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I am so sorry you are having this problem with your grey, it does seem as if it is directly related to the carpet cleaner, they are very sensitive to odors especially chemical ones but it seems you have more problems with finding good avian vets, the ones you have been to so far don't sound like they are concerned with anything but their money. I would keep trying to find a decent vet, yes it might cost you money but your grey is worth it, she needs decent care and I hope you find it. Please keep us informed on her progress and the next time your fiance wants to clean the carpet remove your grey to another room and close the door to the room being cleaned and air it out before returning the bird to it. Birds have very sensitive respiratory systems and can be made sick by fumes and smells that wouldn't bother us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 I've talked to every vet in the area - as I said the closest one that will see her is almost 3 hours away, which means 6 hours in the car. I don't have a problem spending the money, but their attitude does NOT inspire confidence. Not to mention that it will take the last of my cash to get her seen - then if she needs treatment I'll be out of luck. I asked what they would do in the case of an emergency - if they would treat her......they said no.......and asked if I had credit cards, saying they could split the charges on multiple cards. They also said they couldn't treat her, but they would keep her for awhile while we went to borrow money or sell things if we needed to! Talk about rude! And they're affiliated with the Emergency Vet that raped us for $500 last night. So anyhow, I'm not sure what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Oh, I feel terrible for you. Obviously you're trying to do everything in your power for your bird, but unscrupulous vets keep taking your money and doing nothing useful for your bird. I think it might be a good idea to move her cage from that room for a couple of days. Even if you can't smell it, maybe the chemicals are lingering in small doses. Also, it's got to be stressful trying to find an avian vet when your bird is sick. If she makes it through this challenge, be sure to invest some time in tracking down a good vet for next time. My dog was on Metacam as an anti-inflammatory for his arthritic pain. I hope it helps your bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Just called the Emergency Vet back to ask about the medication and the loss of appetite.......they told me they can't answer questions over the phone and that I'll need to bring her in again at a cost of $500 if I want a "follow-up". Completely ridiculous. Basically at this point I'm just so tired I'm not thinking straight and hoping some of the bird experts here can give me their opinion on (obviously not real medical advice): 1) Is Metacam effective at treating respiratory inflammation in Greys? 2) Does the diagnosis and treatment plan seem reasonable? 3) How serious is wheezing/respiratory distress (after over 24 hours) caused by an "allergic reaction" to fumes such as those from Formula 409? 4) Do you think I should bring her to another scandalous-sounding vet for a second opinion or continue with prescribed treatment over the weekend and re-evaluate on Monday? 5) Should I begin to worry yet about her not eating for 12 or so hours? About the watery feces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 See I know Metacam is used for muscular/skeletal issues - my question is whether it is useful for respiratory inflammation...... The vet we normally use for her is 2 hours away. That's the closest one that will treat birds. But when I called this AM I was told their avian vet had left them and that they no longer treat birds, so the next closest is nearly 3 hours away. To find another I'd need to look even farther than that.......not sure what to do at this point about the vet - hopefully we won't need one again anytime soon since she's not even 3 years old.......I suppose if we do, however, I'll find a good one even if it takes a 3+ hour drive. This is the 2nd vet that stopped treating birds by the way. Our first was right around the corner. They stopped about a year ago and sent us to the one 2 hours away. Now they have stopped also so we've had to look even further. I was on the phone all morning calling every vet in the area with no luck. I have her in her portable cage (I used to take her with me on business travel). It is pretty big for a travel cage - I'd say 2.5 feet by maybe 2 feet. Anyway, I have her in our bedroom away from the living room. I think it is pretty well aired out though, anyway. The windows and sliding doors have been open all night - the air filter running, and 2 fans blowing. There is no longer any scent left........but just to be safe I moved her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Thanks for the thoughts and advice by the way - much appreciated. Hoping someone with some specific knowledge of these things comes around too and can advise on the medical issues...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Where are you located? If her droppings are watery she can dehydrate easily can you get some Coconut juice or half gatorade and half water into her? You may want to try spoon feeding some warm mash to keep her energy up. Yes Metacam is an anti inflamatory you may want to ask a Vet by phone if Benedryl may be helpful-do not dose on your own. Sick birds can succumb to dehydration so do get her to drink, eat grapes or what ever you can tempt her with . Do keep trying to find a good avian Vet even if you have to call them for help due to distance. 1) YES somewhat 2)Not convinced 3)serious 4)get some help now, birds have very little reserve energy to fight with 5)Yes do push foods and liquids, tempt her with treats and keep her warm 6)Add a clean mist vaporizer with no additives just water or take her to the bathroom with a hot steamy shower running & see if that eases her breathing. (Do not put her in the shower) Edited August 5, 2011 by Greywings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 http://www.wingsatplay.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=1 Link for Avian Veterinarians by state hope it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 This isn't likely an allergic reaction. It's more likely toxic chemical exposure. One is an immune system overload. The other is more damage to tissue &/or harmful chemicals in her system. Some chemical toxins actually suppress the immune system, which is why Greywings' suggestions are so important. If you go that route, make sure she doesn't get a chill after you've had her in the steamy bathroom. Also, do what you can to isolate her as far from the area that got sprayed as possible. It's probably still in the air, which means she's continuing to be exposed. So fresh clean, air is very important. Have you checked http://www.aav.org/search/ to see if you can find any other vets or talked to the local store where you got Betsy? I don't know if animal poison control can help, but it might be worth a try: http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-control/ or 888-426-4435. And yes, it might help to say where you are. It might even help to make a short, separate thread asking the members if they would suggest a vet in your area. Include "emergency" in the title & maybe refer to this one for details. I really hope she starts to improve, soon. Please let us know what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 She doesn't want to eat or drink anything now. It's tough because she has always hated anything wet other than water. I've been trying to give her water through an eyedropper, but not much luck, she just gets upset and starts breathing harder. As I said earlier, I took her in the bathroom last night and it seemed to make it harder for her to breathe. Her breathing got really labored so I discontinued. The Metacam doesn't seem to be doing much good. Just checked the avian vet website and no luck (other than the places I already was familiar with). At this point I don't know what to do. I don't see myself being able to get her to eat enough food and drink enough water by eyedropper to keep her alive for long. I have her in the bedroom as far away as possible from the area that got sprayed, but I think the stress of being in a different area might have been what started the whole not eating thing in the first place. I have all the windows open and it's 90+ degrees outside, so chills aren't too much of a worry. I didn't take her to the other vet (6+ hour drive) thinking it would do more harm than good and that I could get the same level of poor care at the emergency vet here in town........but neither will treat her without a large sum of money I don't have to give them......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 And I called avian vets all the way into 2 states over this AM but none would give me any advice at all without seeing her........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 So I just called the darned emergency clinic again and they want me to bring her back. They say they'll need to keep her over the weekend and that we won't be allowed to see her during this time. What should I do? Leave her alone with these people? I have no idea how to proceed......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Geez, I'm calling these places and they have avian vets in the office but no one will even talk to me without money. I tell them I'm hours away and there are no vets in my area and they just tell me I can make an appointment if I want. SO frustrating..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morana Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Uh, I'm so sorry to hear that your birdie is not good at all:-(((((( I even wrote to my vet but since today is the holiday in our country and she doesn't work during the weekends I don't know how else I would help. It is questionable weather my vet even works this month or she already might be on holiday. Keeping my fingers crossed. Even if she gets back to me, I know it is not much to expect since she didn't and can't see your birdie but I couldn't just sit and do nothing.. What about your birds breeder? Could you call/visit her/him? Maybe she/he knows a good vet or someone else that could help! Please check it out. And here are my two cents.. Your birdie needs to take water. Do you have a syringe? Maybe it would freak her a bit less because she was hand fed by one(?) If this surroundings (your room) are freaking her out, can you move away the carpet and get her back in the room where she was in? I know she don't want to eat but you just need to find a way! Eat with her.. Apple sauce, mashed sweet potato, eggs, some favorite fruits...anything at this point!!!!! IMO there is no point in bringing the bird to the emergency vet clinic unless they can give her infusion and only then, because they already showed they have no idea what in the world they are doing. Also, what kinda crap (pardon my language) is the policy that you can't see your bird while in their care!?! She would be left in unknown environment, all alone and without anything or anyone familiar! I don't think that would help much. -But finding someone who could get her the infusion might help. Unfortunately I'm not a vet, but to me, that sounds logical:-S I'm so sorry I can't be more of assistance to you and your bird. I'm really really hoping your birdie gets well soon!!!!:-) Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morana Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Now I was talking to my BF and he said something that is still ringing in my head.. You really don't have much of a choice since it is Friday and no one works on weekends, right? If nothing changes really soon on your end, you only have that emergency vet to give it a shot,right? It is not a bed of roses, one way or another. Try to calm yourself down and listen to your gut- to take her to the vet or not. A positive thing is that even a regular vet knows how to give a infusion, right? Please keep us informed because this is eating me alive:-( Edited August 6, 2011 by Morana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 I found a vet in the area that will see her. They say they aren't bird "experts" but that they have treated birds before and can at least look at her. Heading there now. I tried to give her water using a syringe - no luck - she's scared of it and doesn't want the water anyway, even off my fingers...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Jesus, so sorry to hear of this. What you describe of labored breathing and no appetite or desire for water is extremely serious. It may or may not be related to the "Bird Safe" carpet cleaner. That could be coincidental. The person that can possibly diagnose and treat your grey is a certified avian vet that knows what to test for and how to keep her alive until a correct diagnosis is established. It may be a 3 or 4 hour trip to see an avian vet, but I personally believe the sooner you get there the better. Your grey will not live much longer if you don't in my opinion. Also, as sick as he is, there is no doubt they will want to keep and treat him over night at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusCAG Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I am so sorry to read all this. I don't have anything constructive to offer like some of the others have, but I just want to express that I truly hope that this trip to the vet can help your little one out, and that whatever damage has been done inside can start mending. Thinking of you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pi_1 Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 The problem isn't the distance - it's that no one will see her until next week at the earliest. So I have her at the vet in town now. They don't have an avian vet but say the vet has worked with birds before. They have her in a box giving her oxygen. They listened to her chest and say the wheezing is limited to the throat and not the lungs. They say it indicates either something is stuck in her throat or that she is having an allergic or asthmatic reaction. They're taking X-rays now to check for blockage. They say the Metacam probably caused the decreased appetite and lethargy. They say she should not have been given the Metacam. I don't think they're planning to keep her overnight but we'll see. And what is it with these vets not letting you be there for the exam? They all make you wait outside. Seems like it would be more stressful! I'm not a crazy person that won't stay out of their way - I could see them keeping me out then. Anyhow, I think it is good news that her lungs aren't effected. I'll keep you updated. Any thoughts on the new diagnosis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara2 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Thanks for the update. I've been keeping my eye on this thread all day hoping for good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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