Please participate..

[Morana]

So that glorious day has finally come!-yesterday graduated from college and now I finally have time to breathe!!...and of course come back to my favorite forum..:-D

I got some money for my graduation so I'll be spending a part of it on my feathered friend..:-)

Unfortunately we don't have much here in Croatia to buy from, to start with, so I'll be ordering everything from UK and mostly from US. So please, now while I am at it, share your thoughts on what would be mandatory, what would be great to buy and then just for fun.. There are a few things I was thinking about.. Of course the money factor will be a limitation to all my wishes but don't think about it while writing your thoughts down.. Oh, one thing I'll be buying here in Croatia.. A humidifier:-) This AIR-O-SWISS E2441 is the one I'm thinking of uying so if you saw reviews or you have personal experience, or know better one also from this firm, or whatever,... I'd like some thoughts about that too.. :-)

I'll be buying, calcium supplement, Aloe Vera juice and gel here in Croatia too..:-)

 

MY LIST:

-first aid kit,

-t-perch for a scale,

-red palm oil

-reflector for his light

-Quaker oats (I saw their web page and have no idea which one to choose!-please advise;-)

-harness (but just to be look at for a time being. I want for him too look at it even if it means for a year.. and when will are ready, to be around. I figured it is a medium size but what would you recommend. Emphasis is on safety and comfort)

-lot of toys, mostly ones for shredding, foraging,...

-Nuttieberies? -haven't really decided about that but if I'm going to train him I'll need something to reward with. Is this appropriate? I read it on this forum that birds like them but never saw it in person..

-book: CAPTIVE FORAGING from M. Scott Echols (do you know is it a good book?)

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PS: if you know good on line stores that ship to Croatia do mention:-)

[judygram]

Congratulations on your graduation and the only thing I can think of that you did not mention is a heavy duty bell for your grey to bat around and fight with, a must have for greys, mine loves hers and its the one thing I can't rotate out as she would be lost without it.

[Morana]

I didn't forget to put a bell on my list.. I think that Zak and I would be out of a roof over our heads if he would start to ring that thing, so unfortunately, for now, he'll be without the bell..;-)

[Dave007]

****-harness (but just to be look at for a time being. I want for him too look at it even if it means for a year.. and when will are ready, to be around. I figured it is a medium size but what would you recommend. Emphasis is on safety and comfort)****

 

Start it off immediately. The older the bird gets, the more obstinate he/she becomes--get Aviator Flight type, no regular type harness.

 

The medium size is for CAGs

The small size is for TAGs

[Morana]

But how to tart immediately when I don't know anything about it,to be honest, when I don't know much about anything..? I had in mind first reading all or most of Shanlungs blog, convert zak to better diet and start training with simple stuff before harness. He is timid towards new stuff. Well, much less than he used to, but if you read the fiasco with the recent vet visit I'm sure you'll know what I am talking about. And about diet.. It is hard to offer some treats like seed when that is what he basically eats. :-S And the rest he doesn't wanna eat! I didn't give up on it but I m not that sure that it will happen tomorrow. So how can I start immediately?

[Dave007]

When I say *start immediately*, I'm talking about getting your bird used to having the Aviator on him. That has nothing to do with training. It's much easier for a young bird to accept that type of item as opposed to an older bird. The harness is used to take the bird outside and to do some training in the house AFTER he's used to the Aviator being on.

 

 

Treats? All types of nuts, shelled or unshelled. If you're gonna use peanuts, make sure you buy them at a food store because those peanuts are cooked and ready for human consumption. Nutriberries? They're very tiny different seeds that are put in thin molasses and rolled into a ball shape.

**He is timid towards new stuff**

All greys are, especially Congo greys. It takes quite a while for congos to accept new things. Sometimes, that also includes food, toys, new surroundings, new cages, new people etc.

[Morana]

Tnx Dave. To explain why I was associating harness with training..I was hoping to train him to lift a wing or do something on command so he would be used to accept certain aspects of "putting on the harness" before it actually happens so he wouldn't be so traumatized. I don't wanna force anything. I imagined that with training we would bond more and learn to trust each other more which I think is very important before trying something like harness.

 

And about the nuts...he doesn't like them...not now anyway..

 

I read so many posts of people and how their CAG is doing great-not fearful as much.. Mine won't go into a carrier.. I just wanna get used my CAG to change so it becomes normal. I know he would almost fly into a wall if I would present him with a harness now.. :-S

With this, I'm not saying I wont try anything. I'll try with clicker training to get harness close as it can without him being scared. But I am not inclined to put it on without covering more ground. He has to be able to trust me, not fear me. It was exaggeration when I said he'll be just looking at it for a year. I am able to touch him on various parts of his body, but wouldn't be useful to get him let me handle him all over the place before sticking him into a harness? I watched many videos about aviator suits and how to put it on bud I don't fell like an expert;-) I watched your video and I can tell you I would lose my fingers in a heartbeat if I tried what was that lady doing with Dusty! Lol I kinda wanna avoid that.. So am I making sense?

 

PS: Dave is this type of harness you were talking about? http://www.windycityparrot.com/Flying-Bird-Aviator-Harness-Leash.asp

Edited February 25, 2011 by Morana

[Dave007]

Yes, that's the harness I'm talking about. It's sold in many online bird companies. There's only one company that makes them.

As far as all the other things you're saying, I'm just gonna say something about parrots--owning a parrot includes getting bitten. All parrots will bite for one reason or another. As time goes on,you may think that action stops but loads of people here will tell you that even because their bird has gotten older, once in a while their parrot bites.

That video I posted was just to show you the usual method of putting it on. It had nothing to do with biting or friendliness. Once upon a time, that lady was bitten by the birds that she dealt with concerning harnesses. Almost all parrots get nippy when things like harnesses are first introduced and that includes all the other videos that you saw.

Another thing about parrots--this isn't to insult you but greys have the amazing ability to sense fear, wariness, nervousness in a person and when the bird sees that it won't do all the things you want to happen. Luckily concerning greys, they will give off a warning sign before biting and that also applies to wanting to be left alone.

Another important thing to know about parrots and I say this about the carrier but it applies to many other things that are happening--

Getting a parrot used to something takes repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition. As things are repeated, the bird will accept them. Befiore he accepts changes, there will be resistance and biting and squawking and growling. Look at all the people who put their birds in carriers and travel all over the place.

You're putting to much emphisis on how the bird reacts and you're taking it personally and your bird knows it and will do it again and again until you get control of the situation.

 

Not to insult you but this is your phrase in one of the earlier replies in this thread and it says alot of things

 

******But how to tart immediately when I don't know anything about it,to be honest, when I don't know much about anything..?*****

 

Because of this you're gonna have to rely on people who do know about loads of subjects and those people won't tell you things that don't apply. The things that are said may be harsh to you but they went through it and they realize that giving advice, no matter what the subject is will help you.

 

When I say that you're gonna get bitten, I speak for hundreds and hundreds of parrot owners who.ve gone through it.

 

PS---I wanna add one more thing to this-----

When you purchased that parrot, you bought a wild animal and that parrot will remain wild until the day it dies even if he/she has been a pet for years. A wild animal is totally different than a domestic animal.

It's one of the reasons that if a parrot escapes from a house, it's very hard to get the parrot back because when it escapes because it's going into an environment that nature made for that parrot.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Dave007

[Morana]

There is nothing harsh about your words. I know Zak can sense, even too well, my fear of getting bitten and I know I must get past that but I am making slow progress. (Probably) to slow. When I say I don't know much, I acknowledge my mistakes but I fear of repeating or, better yet, making new ones, which is also here restricting me. Training may be a tool for me to overcome my fear and in that way to bond further with my birdie. Another thing is, Zak and I are doing really good last months and there is also fear of breaking this trust.. So, the problem is fear! one way or another..

 

PS: I had a parrot before Zak, and maybe it can't be compared, but with that birdie and I had a relationship the way that lady (from the video) may now have with her birds. There was so much trust and love between us that I could hang that parrot by its tail (but of course I didn't) and he really wouldn't object/mind. So I know how is it supposed to feel-the bond, the trust, the not biting but somehow along the way I lost that..

[BirdsAreGrey8]

Congrats on graduating! Get a bag full of popsicle sticks for like $3. Mine loves them an tears them up.

[Morana]

Pure aloe vera gel and juice bought:-)

[MarcusCAG]

There is nothing harsh about your words. I know Zak can sense, even too well, my fear of getting bitten and I know I must get past that but I am making slow progress. (Probably) to slow. When I say I don't know much, I acknowledge my mistakes but I fear of repeating or, better yet, making new ones, which is also here restricting me. Training may be a tool for me to overcome my fear and in that way to bond further with my birdie. Another thing is, Zak and I are doing really good last months and there is also fear of breaking this trust.. So, the problem is fear! one way or another..

 

Perhaps I missed something somewhere, and I'm sorry if I did, but has Zak ever bitten you at all before? I mean, beyond a nip? My husband and I were both introduced to Marcus' bite pretty early on, mostly from curiosity on his part I think. I still believe that he never really learned his bounds in his former situation, I really don't know if he was handled at all, and he was wondering what he could get away with us at first. Now that we have a number of months' ground covered between us, Marcus knows what he can and can't do in the sense of what does and does not hurt us. Even I, the beloved one have received wretched gushing wounds from my darling boy (and believe it or not, our Quaker parrot has delivered bites almost as bad!). It comes with the territory. There are definitely warning signs to look for, but sometimes they get startled, sometimes they're just in a bad mood and I think they 'lash out' like people do occasionally, for any excuse of a reason just because they're in a cranky mood. I don't mean to frighten you saying this, but just so you know: if your Zak does latch on, one of the things I've found that works well with Marcus is to take my free hand and kind of push up and into his chest a little bit. It startles him (and I get his signature exhalation of displeasure, cute under other circumstances), and he lets go. Marcus rarely BITES at this point, if he reaches for me it is to pull my fingers up for a head tickle. But I know what he has done and still can do, and just the other day he bit my husband on the shoulder for who knows what reason? But we love him anyway, and wounds heal, and he's our boy. So if you really want to work Zak into accepting a harness, just take it slow, know there might be some bumps in the road ahead of you... but relax and adore him anyway. He'll relax more for you then and it will all be so much easier!

[Morana]

To answer your question-yes Zak bit me. The story is long so I wont get into too much details but I'll refer you to read about a part of my story in the tread

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?191930-Yoshi-s-Future-Trying-to-find-a-good-home&p=219702&highlight=yoshi+home#post219702

Because my faulty care Zak became a beast! I just couldn't figure out what was wrong because books I read and sites I found talked about parrot problems in general. Not a specific fix for a specific behavior. I don't know how to explain it better. Far as I was concern, Zak had best food, toys, loving home,most of the day out of the cage, etc.. But that too was so general and far from what he needed. The things I didn't know, for example,is that not all parrots like the same type of toys. Further more, he didn't know how to play with the ones he had. The best food we have here in Cro for parrots was a seed mix. The best I could find, but still just a seed mix.. And so on.. There is/was a long, long list of things I do/did wrong. He was unhappy and he couldn't communicate so he bited. Now I do understand but now he doesn't bite -except you really push him out of his comfort zone. My boyfriend still pushes him far out of his comfort zone because he still doesn't understand, but I am trying to talk to him and warn him every time I see he is about to do that. Mayor problem is that for him Zak is "just a bird" and I'm not sure if this is ever going to change. But back to the biting part.. I remember most vividly how Zak once bit my ear. We were watching TV, he was on his perch and then, out of the blue, Zak lounged and bit my ear so damn hard that it bled and bled and I was screaming in agony.. But the funny part is, I'm not at all afraid now that he'll do that. He is very often on my shoulder sitting there, preening, playing and we are doing great. Since I changed my perception towards him, Zak became a new bird in the matter of days! But somehow I am mortally afraid he'll massacre my hand. When I want to offer my fingers to pick him up I experience a rush of panic and then I give up because I know he can feel it. I picked up courage just once and I was really afraid so Zak acted accordingly-he bit my fingers, not hard, but it was more than enough for me to panic again. My boyfriend picks him up on his fingers and even puts him in the cage like that but he is not afraid at all. I read many useful posts like how to make a fist so he couldn't bite, or the one you said, but it doesn't give me courage. I'm in dilemma: to mentally overcome fear and then pick him up, or to act flowing advices I read and work my way through the fear that way.. Since the first one is not working I'm inclined to try the other thing.. The best part is..when I offer my forearm for him to clime on we never have a problem. So lately I started to offer part of my forearm closer to my fingers so he, maybe incidentally step up on my fingers ,but I think he chooses the forearm because he knows that I'm afraid and doesn't want to scare me any further just now.. I may be out of my mind, but I really think he calculates where and why he is gonna climb on to.. ;-)

Because of all my mistakes (from the past) I first wanted to read as many posts/blogs I could to understand him better so fear would go away. I love him so much and that is why I'm never gonna give up on our relationship, but it does feel like I'm taking a bit of a detour... I could read and act as I go, but I always feel too scared when we come to the part with stepping up/and biting hands..:-S

 

PS: I don't think I would figure out what was wrong any time soon if there wasn't that parrot tricks add I found. Afterward, It was just a matter of time till I found this forum. Before it was like I was blind and didn't realized it at all.

[MarcusCAG]

This is going to be quick because I need to get back to stuff here, but just a thought: have you ever just spoken to Zak about how you feel? Like, had a conversation with him about it and really just expressed how scared you get that he'll bite you? I'm amazed sometimes at how well my boys respond when I just talk to them about things that concern me with them--I don't know how much specifically they understand from it, but it's all usually just even a bit better afterward.