I'm addicted to my GREYS...Mixed signals

[MyGrey-Gary]

I'm addicted to both my newly rescued Grey name Gary and the Grey forums! A few of you know about the rescue of Gary's abuse and have seen my photos. But the good thing is - if you are reading this... I'm NOT alone! Of course I'm new to both Gary and grey forums...but plan to be around for a very long time to both. We want to give Gary his space AND we want to talk to him so he gets to know us. and on that same token - since I'm in IT and on the computer all day - I tend to hop into the forum and view some posts to get tips and ideas of how to get Gary accustomed to us.

So I hope you do not get tired of seeing me around. I'm sure I'll settle down and post a "reasonable" amount instead of an excessive amount.

 

So now about Gary and how he is doing... I thought Gary did very well for the first night. I've read about the "honeymoon phase" but I would have thought that would have taken at least a few days to jump into. Gary (of course) doesn't let us pet him and I wouldn't expect it. But I thought he did exceptionally well.

 

His eyes were NOT pinning.

 

He was making a grinding noise

 

He was perched on one leg.

 

His feathers were fluffed BUT every so often he looked like he was shivering. (house was at 70 degrees so it wasn't that he was cold). More like he was nervous.

 

His cage was open and he would come to the front of the cage and would just stand there and look at us while we would talk to him. (hopefully he knew we were not going to invade his personal space).

 

He would hang upside down and actually got out and and on top of the cage door. He christened the floor at that time.

 

When he flew out of the cage and landed on the coffee table in front of us. He seemed to just be standing there, looking around. He did a step up onto my hand.

 

I held him for a min while speaking to him. I attempted to pet the top of his head, but he turned like he was going to bite me... so I stopped trying to pet him. He sat on my hand for a min while I spoke to him and then I had him step up back in his cage. (Didn't want to press my luck).

 

He really didn't seem to express any aggression. Even when I attempted to pet him, he didn't go right to bite me. He just gave me the signs that he didn't want to be pet.

 

The previous owner said he says a few words like hello... but mostly mimics sounds. We didn't try to get him to speak but we spoke to him - he would just look at us, tilting his head.

 

He would stretch a wing (not really flap). and the previous owner was holding his wings open trying to show me where to clip the wings (which I have seen my mom clip her parrot's wings for years)... and I would tell him - OKay... and try to get him to let go of Gary's wing. He was really making me mad! URGH! Mad just thinking about it. OKay - sorry about that...

 

and he even did some head bobbing when my wife and son were talking to him.

 

so here is where you guys give opinions. We want to take it slow but we would also like to go with Gary's pace. too fast, too soon? or as long as he doesn't hide in the back of his cage, does come out of his cage, and steps up to me (only to go back into his cage), we are going at Gary's pace? I was mainly concerned about Gary's quivering.

 

Sorry - I'll try to keep posted less winded!

[Barbara2]

The quivering chest is another bit of the grey language. It might mean, "I want you to pick me up." It might mean, "You are making me nervous". Time will teach you what he is trying to tell you.

[birdhouse]

You haven't tried to make him do anything. You've given him the opportunity to explore his new surroundings but let him decide how. You've interacted with him like a new member of the flock. All good.

 

He's going to need some time to stop being dazed & confused, so he's probably going to give you some mixed signals. The chest beating is likely nervousness at this point. But Barbara's right, it will have other meanings, eventually.

 

You're paying attention to the way he's behaving & what you're reporting sounds like a bird who is settling in & not freaked out about it. He's probably just so happy to be away from them that he'll try anything.

 

I wouldn't change anything you're doing until he does. Then, react accordingly.

[KimKim]

Sounds like you guys are off to a great start!

[judygram]

It sounds like you are doing all the right things with Gary and allowing him to settle in and take things at his pace is what will win him over, it may take some time for you to gain his trust considering what he had to put up with in his former home.

You can ask all the questions you want, we don't mind answering them if we know the answer and there are a lot of knowledgeable members here who knows just about all there is to know about greys.

[MyGrey-Gary]

Thanks..... I may just create a post called MYGrey-Gary nightly Journals....lol Because I have to give an update from last night. I'm sure there will be days/nights that are not good...but yesterday I was surprised again. We give him attention but we do not force or chase him. If he's at the front of the cage, we get right in front of him and say hello...etc. if he moves to a back perch - we leave him alone. Yesterday I saw an opportunity to have him step up to my hand and he did. I tried petting once and he did not want it. But what he did do is go up to my shoulder. He sat there for a few min but when I went to get him he went to bite me. So I left him up there and leaned towards the cage and he stepped up from my shoulder to the cage. when we all left the room, he started making his noises... microwave beeps, water dripping, bird chirping, etc. We came back down trying to get him to say hello...... he didn't.. but he did continue with his sound effects.

 

Overall... not a bad night. Sometimes he will step up to me.... sometimes he won't. If he doesn't...... I just leave him alone. Hopefully he gets that or he will very soon. He even steps up to my son....(sometimes as well). I really wish he would with my wife. She gives him peanuts which are supposedly his favorite (and I'm not putting in his dish). We only give those to him by hand.

[birdhouse]

I'm really glad to hear things are going so well, but you might want to slow down a bit. That two days in this bird isn't much intimidated by a new flock says he has a strong personality.

 

He's conditioned to being hit & I'm going to guess they threatened to hit him as well. How does he know what you're going to do when you reach towards him & he doesn't know you or have any reason to trust people, especially women, apparently?

 

He's a biter who's been abused. Any of this may color the way he sees things when you start to pet him for instance. Maybe not so good to let him on your shoulder, yet either. You're very vulnerable if you trigger a bite reflex. And you will, at some point.

 

For a while, it might be a good idea to limit it to step up when he's comfortable. Let him hang, talk to him, offer a toy or food. Give him a lot of time to forget what he's known & learn that hands won't threaten him any more. That & the move are a lot for right now.

[MyGrey-Gary]

I completely agree with you birdhouse. I believe this is moving very quickly. Also - when he goes to bit, he doesn't position himself - so I don't know if he's going to bite or step up. He doesn't duck his head, he doesn't reposition. When I have him step up it's because he's flown down to the floor or the coffee table. or he is trying to get to the top platform on his cage.

 

Last night - he was pretty active. he would go to the top of the cage platform and tear the paper that was up there. He was making some sound effects... but he seems to go back and fourth pretty quickly. Seems to trust one sec.. and not the next second. I can certainly understand that from my previous posts and the information you listed above. I've just been trying to make sure I go with his pace. If he trusts me.. I want to show him he can and that we are not going to force him to do anything. But I don't want him to think he can do anything he wants in the household. I'm holding off with all training until he gets to know us. I would really love it if (and hopefully this is possible) he would go back into his cage when I tell him, have a potty spot (even though accidents happen), not to mention a vocabulary.....and I am well aware it's going to take some time. I haven't ever trained a bird and have done lots of reading and viewing of videos - for clicker training. I'm not sure if that can start 2-3 weeks or 2-3 months from now, etc... I would imagine a lot of people want that for their Grey. I am willing to put in countless hours.

 

Currently - I make sure at night when I cover him up - I say good night Gary... see you in the morning. And in the morning, I say good morning Gary.... and before I leave for work, I tell him to have a nice day and see him after work. When I give him what I was told is his favorite treat - peanuts (at least for now) I tell him good boy and um..umm.. good. Which is after I hold my hand next to him without him biting at it.

 

I would imagine I'm going to be one of "those people" that needs lots of guidance. My mom has an Amazon Parrot since I was in high school. But I didn't ever try to train it. I spoke to him and gave him treats... watched my mom clip his wings, etc.. but this is my first time owning my own bird. She also had love birds, parakeets, and some others......

 

ANY advice as to what we are doing wrong or what we should be doing - will be GREATLY appreciated AND utilized. I really do not want to move tooooooo quickly, I do not want to give him any bad habits and I do not want him thinking he will rule the roost. But of course I will spoil the hell outta him.

 

We certainly have the effort and are open for suggestions but lack the 100% knowledge to know we are doing all the right things - (right things, right timing, etc). And more importantly, know this forum is the right place to go to!

[MyGrey-Gary]

okay, so I've had Gary for a week now. I think we have made some tremendous progress... but still getting tons of mixed signals. We try to keep his cage open all the time while we are home. He comes out and sometimes we can't get him back in. he won't step up to me. He will just look like he wants to bite me. Last night (and this has happened twice now) he flew from his cage right onto my shoulder. He's done that before when I had food - so I figured he just wanted to share some food. But last night, I was just sitting on the couch and he came right to my shoulder. No problem, right? Well.. when I wanted him to step up to my hand, so I could put him back in his cage, he wouldn't. so I ended up having to stand up and lean into the cage so he would step up into it.

 

He also talks up a storm when we walk into the other room. Almost seems like he wants us to go back into the room. He already said a couple of words but this morning he said "Holly Molly" which is our dogs name. (Molly wasn't in the room). When we walk out of the room, he starts going thru everything he knows - all the whistles, sounds effects and words... He will only do this while we are not in the room OR when we are in the room and we are not paying attention to him (or have food he wants).

 

Today marks the first week he's been here, so I can't ask for much more...... He doesn't seem to bite me to the bone anymore. When I ask him to step up, he will just look at my hand. He will fly right to my shoulder but then won't step up to my hand most of the time. He will step up to me every so often...... when he sits on my shoulder, he will only be on one foot, and make that grinding noise. so I would imagine he's very content.

 

No miracles in a week - he's not stepping up to me MOST of the time. I'm wondering - am I about there? When he does step up, we will step up to everyone - Me, my wife and son. then we end up putting him back onto of his cage or inside his cage.

 

Will he always go to bite me when he doesn't want to step up?

I don't fully trust him - so I can't expect him to fully trust me - kinda....... I haven't ever forced him to do anything and I haven't gone to bit him

 

Great progress for his first week here! but I want more!!!!!! lol

[Talon]

Love the updates! Sounds like your doing a great job letting him settle in and get used to his new forever home.

[birdhouse]

It sounds like Gary is doing greyt. He's a strong little bird & seems to be overcoming his sad past quite quickly.

 

No, he isn't necessarily always going to bite you if he doesn't want to step up. There are other ways to say no including body language, head back with mouth open, hitting with his beak closed, etc. Kura will wrap her foot around my finger & "shove" my hand away.

 

He may just need to fully believe you'll listen to him. Then he'll learn he doesn't need to go to the extremes of bloodletting to have a say. But it's only been a week & he's still trying to find out what your true intentions are. Trust takes time, especially where there's been abuse.

[katana600]

Gary has come a long way with you in a short time. I like that you get him to step up for you and put him back while it is still a positive interaction. Shoulder time should be reserved for a totally trustworthy bird as a privilege. For a little while, until you get to trust him and for him to trust you, I would put up your arm and keep him from being able to land on your shoulder. As much as you are wanting to get close to him, it would be a real setback if he lands on someone and gives a hard bite from a miscommunication. In another month or so, after thwarting him and diverting him to your hand or forearm, he will understand that he can be on your shoulder by invitation only and that he has to step up when you ask him to remove him from your shoulder. It is a lot easier to give more privileges than it is to take one away if there is a mishap. You are doing a fine job getting him acclimated to your home and family. Congrats on your progress.

[MyGrey-Gary]

Thank you.. thank you... I made some more outstanding (unbelievable) progress yesterday. I have to start by saying Gary was scratching his head. While he was still in his cage and the door was closed (fiberglass curved front door), I was talking to him and softly scratching the door. He came up and put his head down and against the door. so while he was doing that, I pet the top of his wing thru the cage while pretending to scratch his head on the door. He stayed there while I did that, so I figured I would try to go one step further. I went on the side of his cage and scratched at it. He again lowered his head and I was able to scratch his head for a few seconds before he attempted to bite me. I got a bit braver and opened the door. (all this while I was saying scratch Gary) when I said scratch Gary again and did the scratching motion, he put his head down and allowed me to scratch his head for a few seconds. I stopped and did it again. The third time, after I scratched his head for about 3 seconds, he went to bite me. I said no. that's not nice Gary and closed his cage.

 

I really do need to train him that it's not ok to fly down to me from his cage and land on my shoulder. I hope someone can tell me what (EXACTLY) what to do when he does that. I'll be watching TV and all of a sudden I hear wings flappin and bam! Gary is on my shoulder. The other night I spilled some wine on the couch cause I was caught so off guard.

 

He will also fly down to my son's knee when he's watching TV. The bad thing is when he flies down to my shoulder or to my son's knee, he goes to bite us when we attempt to have him step up so we can put him in or on top of his cage. We do not ever force him to step up - we are persistent until he does. but it sometimes takes up to 10 tries before he steps up without biting us. ANY IDEAS? Please.............

 

Also - We just don't understand why he will still try to bit us hard - especially when he seems like he will be loving. Why would he go to bite me when he lands on my shoulder? Why will he go to bit me when he seems fine to me scratching his head? I will only scratch either up to about 5 seconds or he tries to bite me (which ever comes first).

 

I know I can't complain. I have only had Gary for a week and 2 days now. So please advise.......... I will certainly not allow him on my shoulder any more - at least until he stops biting at me. but what do I do when he flies when I'm not paying attention and he lands on my shoulder (remember - he goes to bite my hand when I ask him to step up). What I typically do after I let him sit there for about 30 seconds is lean into the cage and have him step up there.

 

 

As a side note - I would really like to potty train Gary. I can't seem to do any training yet since he still bites me - but I'm wondering... do you think it's a good start by saying a keyword when he poops? while in motion? right after? Do you think he will learn the keyword and it would be easier to potty train him later when he knows that keyword? If you are wondering what I mean by potty training - I would like to get him to potty either just in his cage or a specific perch in his cage. Right now, he will even go in his food. well - it lands on the side of the bowl...

 

Wow - this is getting long - hope your taking notes before commenting (giving me recommendations) one last thing - is it possible he doesn't know he's biting us so hard? Cause I know he used to bite the previous owners and he used to get smacked by the wife...and they guy would grab his beak, hold it and do a no motion while he told him NO and bad boy.. or something like that.

 

Thanks so much for all the advice given to me! It has certainly helped. I know for a fact that I would not have Gary so comfortable with us if it wasn't for all of you out there!

 

so maybe I should sum up all the questions now - since I'm looking at this book update that I hope someone reads....

 

1.) How do I get Gary not to fly to my shoulder when I'm not paying attention? (he will bite me if I try to have him step up to my hand).

 

2.) Do I continue to try to scratch Gary's head if he allows me for about 5 seconds? but he goes to bite me at random times - 2-5 seconds...

 

3.) Should we continue to attempt to have Gary step up? seems fine sometimes.. and other times he tries to bite. We hardly get bit because we can see the diff...

 

4.) Does he know that his bites hurt? and he will stop doing that once he fully trusts us?

 

5.) Lastly, should I say a keyword while he is pooping, right afterwords? and will he recognize that keyword when I can attempt to potty train him later? Or do I just wait?

 

I would imagine good training will come after he trusts us and won't go to bite us. But (and sorry I guess one last question) won't training assist in getting him to trust us if we are not pushing him?

 

Thanks again - I know this was REALLY long. Just have lots of updates and even more questions... It's too bad my mom lives a couple of states away.

 

Once again - THANK YOU!

[judygram]

1. Well one thing when he flies to your shoulder is put your arm up to block him from going there or to divert him to somewhere else for most of them are drawn to the shoulder unless you put a stop to it.

2. Maybe he only wants to be scratched for a few seconds, after all he has only been with you a short time.

3. Yes continue to have him step up but there will be times he just won't want to and respect his decision at that time.

4. Realize that biting is the main way he has to tell you something and no the biting will never stop but it should lessen greatly, if you push when he is not in the mood then "BAM" you will suffer a bite.

5. I don't really have any advice for potty training as I never attepmted that with my fids.

[animalINSPIRED]

As far as shoulders, what Judy said makes sense to me. I don't have any personal advice in that area as Averi just steps up.

 

When you're scratching his head, be aware of your surroundings. I've fallen in love with a Grey in a pet store whom I visit every week or so. If I offer a scratch, she normally puts her head down and I'll scratch. Though I've learned to remove my hand if anyone walks through the door, because in that instance she'll lunge at me mid scratch. Do your best to watch his body language. If he shows any signs of discomfort, or any changes at all really, stop scratching. Respecting their body language builds trust.

 

And yes, continue working on step-up. Again follow his lead, no pressure. And when he does step-up, treat! This will make stepping-up a positive experience and something he looks forward to.

 

Biting will lessen as he settles. You will learn to read him better and he will learn that you won't hurt him.

 

Does he show any certain body language right before he poops? Averi always squats and scoots backward. At that point we pick her up, move her to a potty area and say "potty", she goes, and she gets a treat. It's also good to note when he goes. Averi always goes as soon as she gets out of her cage, so we always take her straight to her potty place, when she comes out.

 

You guys sound like you're making great progress!