eye question

[Laurencann]

Yesterday we brought our CAG, Greystone, in to have its nails trimmed. She is a 17 year old we rehomed in July. We had a vet exam and basic bloodwork done then and all seems well.

 

The person at the pet store who trimmed her nails told us she was avian vet trained. She told us Greystones eyes were puffy and they got runny as she restrained her. She told us not to be surprised if her eyes started bleeding. She said that the puffiness was an indication of a sinus infection and if the infection was a bad one they could start bleeding.

 

I have never heard of this. Greystone appears healthy to me, is eating and behaving normal. But I do know birds can not appear sick until very sick. We have had her 4 months now, but she had a clear vet visit in July. The petstore owner said maybe the vet didn't know what to look for. That older greys can get these chronic sinus infections.

 

The avain vet I went to is well trusted here, and actually at the same clinic the lady claims to have been trained by.

 

What are people thoughts here? Was this lady full of Sh** or do we need to have Greystone rechecked? My husband thought they were restraining Greystone too low in the neck while she was toweled, more around the neck than by the bottom of the head. I didn't watch, I didn't want to be related to the experience since I am still forming my bond with Greystone. That is why I brought her to someone else to be trimmed instead of doing it myself.

[judygram]

That is a known fact that grey's eyes can bleed if restrained and I don't think it has anything to do with their health but I could be mistaken and one of the experts can correct me on it. Your avian vet is the one who knows best and his/her advice is the best.

[Jayd]

Thank you and welcome.. If I may , please seek a new avian Vet...Jay d

[Talon]

Jay is it true their eyes can bleed if restrained?? I have never seen this or heard of this in al lthe research I have done. And if this is true, then when you towel them, is that considered restrained...?

[Dave007]

Parrots with bacterial sinus infections ( also know as upper respiratory infection) have usually been diagnosed by a vet to find that out.

Signs of bacterial infections are excessive yawning, shaking and rubbing it's head, sneezing or frequent nasal discharge.

 

A vet runs tests for that and usually, antibiotic or anti fungal therapy is usually given orally or depending upon the seriousness of the problem its given by injection or topical methods. Sometimes in extreme conditions, the bird has to stay at the vet's office for a few days.

 

""""The pet store owner said maybe the vet didn't know what to look for. That older greys can get these chronic sinus infections.""""""

 

Who told her that and what's worse is that she's passing on dangerous, false information.

If if you have specific worries about sinus infections, then go to the vet although vets usually recognise that problem very quickly.

 

Older birds get chronic nasal infections? That's ridiculous and totally BS.

 

The word chronic means permanent and can't be cured and if a bird had a chronic nasal problem, it would be dead.

 

Bloody eyes? Red iris or actual blood? Do yourself a favor---get your bird's nails clipped somewhere else

Edited October 24, 2010 by Dave007

[Laurencann]

I have seen that African Greys can produce bloody tears, with an unknown cause. This lady said it was from a chronic sinus infection.

 

[Laurencann]

thanks for all of the input, there have been no signs of any upper respiratory infection. I well either start doing the nails myself or just having the vet do it. I was just trying to keep myself separated from the stressful experience. Her nails dont really get long just sharp, despite the variety of perch materials we offer.

[Barbara2]

Even before the responses were posted I sort of wondered if maybe the "nail trimmer" was covering just in case something happened from the restraint. I'm guessing she had to restrain a little tighter and maybe was anticipating a reaction from the eyes. That's just a guess from reading the opening post.

[Azzie]

I'm inclined to agree with what Barbara said.

If at all concerned though give your vet a call and relay the conversation with the nail clipper and your concerns.

[judygram]

Ok I stand corrected, they might not bleed from the eyes but some of the blood vessels can break making the eyes appear bloodshot, that is what I meant by bleeding from the eyes.

[Laurencann]

Thanks so much guys, I just wanted to be sure I was update with grey info. I have other birds but Greystone is my first grey.

[judygram]

I think I would find myself a new vet, my opinion.

[ranaz]

HI Everybody

This thread is interesting and I would really like to know what the vet would say. I have a funny experience similar to this which I never understood. The last time I took Kookie to the vert to get his nails and beak trimmed, I was holding Kookie in a towel while the vet was doing the job. It seems that I held Kookie's head tighter than I was supposed to and when the vet finished and Kookie was released we both noticed something a bit strange in his eyes. It looked as if I applied too much pressure on his eyes and his eyes looked disturbed. Actually under the light I felt as if his eye was a bit dented, not quite spherical (I mean his eyeball). I was scared like hell and the vet used a magnifying glass to look closer but in a matter of seconds, his eye went back to the normal shape. The vet also was not sure cos upon examining his eyes, they looked pretty normal. That was pretty strange, and I am not sure if this was some sort of an optical illusion or a reality. There was no bleeding or anything else and in no time Kookie was as playful as always. I am sure I will handle him with more care and pay extra attention to his eyes.

 

It was probably nothing, but felt like sharing this with you, hoping that we will always be extra careful especially when we have to restrain our greys.

 

Missed you all and missed this forum. Glad to be back online...

 

Rana

[Jayd]

Jay is it true their eyes can bleed if restrained?? I have never seen this or heard of this in al lthe research I have done. And if this is true, then when you towel them, is that considered restrained...?

Thanks Talon, It's called "Bleeding Eye Syndrone" It could be a disease that might be traced to nutritional issues and when restraining a Grey for grooming they may produce tears

containing blood. This may be associated with high blood pressure. More research is needed to determine it this is a sign of underlying problems. This is why it's best to find other ways then toweling...Thanks Jay d

[judygram]

Missed you all and missed this forum. Glad to be back online...

 

You have been missed here too Rana, good to have you back and posting again.

[KimKim]

I have heard of the cheek area bruising from being toweled.

[Greywings]

They can get puffy eyes when stressed that return to normal when at rest. Kind of like being squeezed in a cartoon.

[Spinner]

I think we're possibly talking about two different symptoms here.

 

Eyes may appear red or have red vessels appearing prominently within the eye (as is shown in the pic in the earlier post). As was said by others, this may be from infection or other internal issue. It may also be from mild trauma to the eye (perhaps like flying into a window). It can be cause for concern and should be examined by a qualified AVIAN vet as soon as possible.

 

The second bleeding issue is appears to be actual blood coming from around the eyes an onto surrounding tissue. It is very light - think of our watery eyes welling up. It usually happens during restraint for a routine procedure such as an exam, nail trim, etc. It is not very common and not all greys exhibit this. If seen during any time other than related to restraint by a qualified handler, it is cause for immediate concern. I have seen this with one of my breeder greys as a regular reaction to gentle handling.

 

As always, if in doubt, always consult a qualified vet. I do!

[danmcq]

It is a fairly well known fact that African Greys will actually shed a "Blood Tear" when stressed.

 

As Dave has so well put it, any other symptom of the eyes should be checked..

[FirstPenguin]

Parrots with bacterial sinus infections ( also know as upper respiratory infection) have usually been diagnosed by a vet to find that out.

Signs of bacterial infections are excessive yawning, shaking and rubbing it's head, sneezing or frequent nasal discharge.

 

A vet runs tests for that and usually, antibiotic or anti fungal therapy is usually given orally or depending upon the seriousness of the problem its given by injection or topical methods. Sometimes in extreme conditions, the bird has to stay at the vet's office for a few days.

 

""""The pet store owner said maybe the vet didn't know what to look for. That older greys can get these chronic sinus infections.""""""

 

Who told her that and what's worse is that she's passing on dangerous, false information.

If if you have specific worries about sinus infections, then go to the vet although vets usually recognise that problem very quickly.

 

Older birds get chronic nasal infections? That's ridiculous and totally BS.

 

The word chronic means permanent and can't be cured and if a bird had a chronic nasal problem, it would be dead.

 

Bloody eyes? Red iris or actual blood? Do yourself a favor---get your bird's nails clipped somewhere else

 

Just lurking about until the time is right to get a grey. Dave I was hoping you could go into more detail about the excessive yawning and rubbing the head. We've seen our Senegal do a long yawn where she stretches her beak open and elongates her neck in what seems like an exaggerated fashion, she'll do this several times in row. She also rubs her beak on hard and soft surfaces alike but that I think is normal. Is that the different or the same as what you mean by rubbing of the head. She's just over a year old and had her yearly check-up quite recently with an avian specialist who said she passes with flying colors. We asked about the yawning but they didn't find our description of it as any cause for alarm. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

EDIT: ALSO, she rubs her head and cheeks on her toys sometimes. But she likes to be petted and preened with found objects. When we offer her like a popsicle stick or a baby carrot even she'll put her head down for a scratch. So we figured she was petting herself with her toys.

Edited October 29, 2010 by FirstPenguin

[Dave007]

What I said was""""""""Signs of bacterial infections are excessive yawning"''''''

 

All parrots will stretch their necks and do a long yawn. They may do it a short time later and a couple of times later in the day, but not do it constantly all day long ( every 15 to 30 minutes). That's what excessive yawning is. It's very obvious and it's easy to see that the bird is acting very unusual. It stands out. Your bird isn't doing that.

Be happy that your bird is scraping it's beak and cheeks on hard and soft surfaces. It cleans the outer beak, takes scraps of food off, files the beak down etc etc. All of that is normal. As a matter of fact, that's how greys lose their shiny black beaks and make them look scratchy and dark gray. As far as tickling itself, birds will take many materials and scratch theit heads and face with it. The favorite being dead feathers that've recently fallen off. So, nothing sounds unusual about your bird other than it's being a love bug.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Dave007

[FirstPenguin]

What I said was""""""""Signs of bacterial infections are excessive yawning"''''''

 

All parrots will stretch their necks and do a long yawn. They may do it a short time later and a couple of times later in the day, but not do it constantly all day long ( every 15 to 30 minutes). That's what excessive yawning is. It's very obvious and it's easy to see that the bird is acting very unusual. It stands out. Your bird isn't doing that.

Be happy that your bird is scraping it's beak and cheeks on hard and soft surfaces. It cleans the outer beak, takes scraps of food off, files the beak down etc etc. All of that is normal. As a matter of fact, that's how greys lose their shiny black beaks and make them look scratchy and dark gray. As far as tickling itself, birds will take many materials and scratch theit heads and face with it. The favorite being dead feathers that've recently fallen off. So, nothing sounds unusual about your bird other than it's being a love bug.

 

Thanks so much! Sorry to be a nervous paront and hijack a thread the second something sounds vaguely similar. All the info you post is very informative and you point out how much bad info and old wives tales are floating around. This also reminds me it's humidifier time here in the northeast. Thanks.