Tesla - a visit from the bird behaviorist

[CRYROLFE]

Well, the bird behaviorist paid a visit to Tesla (Pepper) and after getting a really good bite, and poor Tesla breaking a feather.....he finally stayed on the T-Stand and stepped up.

Now we are clicker training him to come to a perch on the cage door, and from there we will be opening the door, and THEN we will try to get him to step up on a perch or stand.

All of these steps will take at least a week or two each.

 

The barking in the background is our annoying Boston, Bender. He was VERY jealous not to be at the center of attention.

 

Tesla did tons better than we thought he would. Tesla has not been handled since he was about 6mon old. He would NEVER step up since he was a baby, so it was a very stressful day.

 

[video=youtube;El-Ch3VHTRk]

Edited October 2, 2010 by CRYROLFE

[Jayd]

Please do not set a time limit. When the stress gets to much, please stop for a while, your baby's in no hurry...Jayd

[pearllyn]

Please don't force Pepper into anything - he's trying to tell you he's not ready to step up yet. He's not been with you that long has he? I think there's still time for him to come round to you on his own.

It's worth baring in mind as well, that everytime you move away after he has bitten, you are teaching him something. Also, was this video edited in anyway? I saw him do the toilet twice in the space of 5 minutes which could also indicate stress. He really is such a sweet bird - many would have just shredded your hand completely in this situation. Just give him time, patience and oodles and oodles of love - although I'm sure he already gets a ton of that!

Thanks for the update.

[Jayd]

I'm sorry I don't understand why your using two arms, all your doing is causing a detraction, causing more stress, you causing him to make a decision, step-up, jump or bite! You shouldn't press your body so close, again your causing stress..When ever he bites, don't jerk or make a noise, just walk away, don't reinforce what he's doing, What Pearllyn said is more than true....sit back, let him tell you when he's ready, don't be in a hurry to change him, we also need to make more changes for them...Jayd, p.s. to many people in the room, take him alone into your bed room, and just sit and talk with him...

[birdhouse]

Looking for professional help with Tesla is a fine idea. It would be advisable to interview a few people before you actually start doing anything, however. There are many approaches & not necessarily only one right way to work with him. A good trainer should always put the health & safety of the bird first.

 

Causing a bird unnecessary anguish is never acceptable such as pushing it too soon or doing so amidst multiple stresses such as loud noises, cameras, mirrors, etc.

 

Putting the bird at risk physically, should be unthinkable. As Tesla is unflighted and given the likelihood that he will spook during any session, consideration should always be made for cushioned landings. Panic can too easily result in broken bones or broken blood feathers.

 

"Stick" training should be a last resort & still may risk even more severe long term emotional problems. Over the years a Grey owner will be bitten many times by their happy, healthy, loving, well acclimated bird. Anyone who does not advertise this up front, may well cause more harm than good.

 

You'll know you're on the right track when you find the trainer who says, "The only training methods that work with a Grey are all about patience,trust & communication. Okay. And a liberal dose of bribery that does not include unhealthy treats."

[Jayd]

Thank you birdhouse............Jayd Maggie and Spock......................

[judygram]

I too have to echo the others comments about it being a very stressful day for Tesla, there was too much going on for a bird to be relaxed about anything much less being manhandled by a behaviorist which seems foreign to me as it should be the bird owner doing the hands on with the bird, after all she is the one the bird is used to.

I have to agree with Jay that working with Tesla should be done in a neutral room away from any distractions and then and only then after you have success at it do it with the additions of the normal surroundings, if a bird feels threatened in any way then nothing good will happen. This will be a long process and will take a lot of time but it will be worth it when Tesla comes to trust you but that trust has to be earned.

[CRYROLFE]

Thanks guys, that was not me in the video but the bird behaviorist.

The method that I am using will be positive and clicker training. The door training is my first step....just to get him to step on a perch that is on the cage door and take a treat (which he is now doing) and then he gets a click and a treat. He will continue to do this until he is solidly coming to the perch. The trainer says that this will take a long time and should be AT LEAST one - two weeks depending on him.

She did use some stressful force measures and says she needed to see where he was at already as far as training. It would be so much less stressful if he'd let me get him off the cage someday for his wings/beak/nail clippings. She does come very HIGHLY recommended by all of the avian vets in my area, so that is why she came. She does all of the clipping etc.....also.

That is all I have to go on right now....you wouldn't believe what the pet shops told me to do.

 

I really appreciate all the help!!! That's why I am here. I know this will take a LONG time and we have a lot to learn along the way.

Thanks again!!!

[Jayd]

I'm sorry, I couldn't recommend her, Her style is for some other kind of animal..You said:She did use some stressful force measures and says she needed to see where he was at already as far as training. QUESTION? What did she need to see? You can do that with out stressing a Grey! If she "clips" that explains she still has to learn about Grey's...To make a blunt point, You need to train her, no one else...

A week our two isn't a long time...This can take months to years, no trust no step-up, or anything else...Sorry...Jayd

[CRYROLFE]

I do have another question.....how do you guys get your "unwilling" birds out of the cage for beak and nail trimming? The previous owner says he needs that all the time, and his nails already need it now, but I wanted to wait a couple months before subjecting him to that.

[KimKim]

like everyone else said I to think you should wait until he comes out on his own and starts to trust you and steps up. We all know now that he knows how to, he just doesn't want to yet. In the mean time you can get a sandy or cement perch that might help with the nails and beak. Or figure out what kind of toys he likes to chew on and give him shelled almonds for the beak. That has worked for us.. From the pictures it doesn't seem like an emergency to get the beak and nails done.. Hope this helps.

[Jayd]

Thanks KimKim......

[pearllyn]

Well done Krystal, on geting Tesla to take a treat from you - brilliant baby steps.

One thought for the trimming is to get a Sandy Perch.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sandy-Perch-jumbo-12-bird-perch-ap-2-3-Dia-/360293510229?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e32aac55

They're not mentally expensive and they really do the job. Alfie has several dotted around the house and I never need to trim her beak or nails at all - on this years vet visit, they said she was spot on! It's so much less stressful for Alfie and us!!!

Edited October 5, 2010 by pearllyn
forgot to add a link!!

[CRYROLFE]

Well he always has the sandy perch and it does look like he uses it (not sure if it's his nails or his beak or both) but his previous home says that his beak really gets extra long and curls under.

Not sure if this is a normal thing or only certain ones.

I made a video of him taking a treat from me. This is really huge for him since he would never take one from me before. Unfortunately it's only cheese or cheetoes but we'll graduate to better things later. I think he may take pasta also.

[Jayd]

Unfortunately it's only cheese or cheetoes but we'll graduate to better things later. I think he may take pasta also.

No Cheetos!!!, and only a small piece of hard yellow cheese, try Cashew's, almonds, walnuts, pine nuts. Start right with treats from the beginning, give as little salt as possible......

[CRYROLFE]

Alrighty....no Cheezits (more for me) and only dark orange cheeses....like Cheddars and such.

I tried all sorts of seeds, nuts etc....and not big whoop from him.

My other bird LOVES almond pieces and pumpkin seeds, but not this one.

I am always adding it to his mash to see which ones he eats. I know he also ate a walnut in the shell before.

What about a little bit of pasta? Plain.

I'd like to do this daily so I want to find something he can have. I am slowly starting to make the cheese pieces smaller too so that he doesn't eat so much.

 

I think he's doing a lot better and I did order him 2 Sandy perches.

 

Thanks!

[danmcq]

Crystal -

 

The cheese you are giving is fine and much healthier than cheeze-its. Kudos to you for switching the reward. Your patience and the clicker training seems like it is going to work out well for you and him. The happy sound of your voice and use of "Good Job" is a great way to build his confidence and trust with you.

 

A couple of observances, if you don't mind. In your behaviorist visit thread, you mentioned what you are going to do when the beak or nails need trimming. My recommendation would be NOT to have this done. His beak is fine and from what I can see of his nails, they are fine as well and perhaps clipped a little too short. To keep nails and beak in tip top shape and also provide him with some good activities, I would recommend including almonds in the shell for him to crack open and also placing toys made of wooden blocks he can chew to pieces. This will keep his beak in good working order and provide the natural way of keeping it up. The nails will stay at a good and proper length by simply adding some cement perches where you know he will frequent and stay on most the time. The perch mounted on the door would be the first place I would install one since you are working with him on using that perch in training and as his outside of cage preferred perch until he gets more settled into the new surroundings and used to all the new people and pets.

 

I commend you for going to such lengths in trying the various avenues of helping him gain trust in humans. This will only be done with time, patience and love. You do not need a behaviorist to come over and add more stress to the mix as others have commented on. Just the way you are working with him is already showing he is willing to interact. But only in his own timing and space he is comfortable with keeping you and he apart until he is confident he can trust you and especially those hands that have been the "Pain Inflicter" he has known them as all his life. Those snatch and grabs in to a towel he experienced to only constrain and do what he considers torcherous things to him, namely wing clipping, nail trimming and beak trimming. His view of hands is the mean torture. With this thought in mind, I think you can understand why he is leery of hands completely.

 

With your path set in the clicker training, with loving energy and patience, I guarantee he will come around to trusting the evil hands in time. The key is time and patience as I have probably worn out by know in this comment.

[Jayd]

Yes, pasta is good, we give fid's "Rotini, and Orzo"....Thanks Jayd

[Big_Squishy]

Our CAG BoBo only gets his nails trimmed when they appear to be causing him trouble grasping his pertches. I still do not have him towel trained but instead of clipping his nails I have be having them filed so they are not sharp but still long enough and pointed enough to allow him to be a as sure footed as a grey can be. I see no need to trim his beak, having rubbing materials that he can do his own grinding and scaling on will help. I am just getting back into the site from an extended time away but I know there aere some really good post about these kinds of materials. Also if you are thinking that beak trimming will make the bites hurt less I really think it may be the other way around. Bites are part of being owned by your bird. Generally the less you react to the bites the less your bird will try to bite. Not a given but generally this seems to be the case. I really think it depends on your pain threshold and how much it realy means to you to trust your bird and have them trust you. I guess I may be numb from the eyes down but I would rather be bitten a few times really hard and not react than being bitten all the time and having to let that come between BoBo and I.

[Big_Squishy]

Oh and just a comment on the bird trainers technique. When Baby BoBo came home with us, we had some trouble getting him to step up. Everyone spoke of patience , posture and approach. Give your bird all the time it needs but be consistant. If you stand too far away or too close you let your bird know you are scared or are threatening. Also I have always used my hand and not my arm to have BoBo step up on. My arm is bigger around that his feet can grasp. I always try to use two fingers to more comfortably accomidate his feet and it also gives me a bit more control. The only time he is on my arm is when he chooses to move off my hand on his own. Also her comment about your bird being workable? Come on? all birds are workable, the question is not will they work to your unconditional wants and needs but will you to theirs. It's the happy medium I think people need to work for.

[chezron]

Good luck with your bird. I wonder if the barking dog is upsetting your grey. They are very sensitive and need to feel safe before they can be handled. Dogs barking really puts my bird on alert and he gets visibly shaken by the noise and activity.