My confusion

[Jayd]

Hi, the key to success is patience and time...Put the clicker up for now, sit back and let Neptune drive.. Let him decide what and what not to do, at his pace, to bond hi first must trust you, thats why he backs away, slow don, sit by him cage open and just talk, now and again try to offer him a treat, there's no set time limit on how long this can take, you can't rush it.......He can sense your frustration, and disappointment, clear your mind and approach him in a new light, with out expatiation, just love...jayd

[Azzie]

As Jay said, it takes time to develop trust and a bond. Some parrots do it easier than others, but just because your baby is a bit slower to give his trust doesn't mean it will never happen. And once it does happen, you will have a new best friend for life. Go slow, go at Neptune's pace, not yours. He cannot move into our world, but you can move into his, and this is what you must do. Speak to him quietly, tell him it's ok in your most soothing sweetest voice. I read somewhere that lots of blinking at a bird is reassuring to them, as it breaks the stare that a predator might do at its prey.

 

As for magic, there is none. This is just a process that takes time and patience. But it will all be worth it in the end, so don't give up on little Neptune.

[Jayd]

How true my friend..

[Cobi Hay]

Heard you all and doing what you recommended!

 

A new question raised: He tries to nip on my shirt buttons etc.

How should i treat a misbehave? Should I use the time out method? Should I look at him and say in a scolding tone "Don't do that?"

 

And what about climbing my shoulder (which he constantly tries to do) should I let him? I know that being on my shoulder is not a very good thing sometimes?

 

Cobi

[Azzie]

The shirt buttons might just be him exploring, which is a natural thing to do for a curious bird. I think it's entirely up to you if you will let him chew your buttons off or not, I guess it depends on how handy you are with a needle and thread! If you don't want him to chew buttons, tell him firmly NO, but don't shout and don't wave your fingers at him. If he continues, you can put him into time out in his cage for 10 minutes or so. I do think he will just continue to chew buttons however, it's just the nature of the beast.

 

One thing you can do to entertain your bird is to make a "play shirt" Get any old t-shirt, and sew on various buttons, bits of wool, thread, rope, bells, and any other chewable bits. Wear the shirt, look like a clown, and let the bird go at it to his heart's content.

 

As for shoulder sitting, I think again it's personal preference. Some birds are definitely not shoulder birds and will bite at ears and faces. My Cleo loves sitting on my shoulder, and she just chills there. Occasionally she will gently tweak my nose, but she has never attacked my ears or face.

[Cobi Hay]

Azzie, thank you for the reply!

Neptune is cutest while sitting on my shoulder. It's just that I understood that being on my shoulder is not so good 'cos it makes him feel high on hierarchy?

[Azzie]

Have a read of this article. Seems the height dominance query is a common misconception.

 

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/behavior/heightdominance_behavior.htm

[Jayd]

Have a read of this article. Seems the height dominance query is a common misconception.

 

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/behavior/heightdominance_behavior.htm

Right-on...

[danmcq]

Right On, as per Jay re the height dominance theory out there on the web.

 

In regards the buttons, just place your hand over it as you say no button and hide it from view. I cannot count the buttons my grey cracked before he understood..... well he understood, he was just stubborn about it!!!

[Karcar]

Not to sound rude but I have to say I totally disagree with the play shirt idea how is he going to know the differents between the play shirt and your Sunday best. Instead offer him a small foot toy to play with when he goes for the buttons. That way he will learn not to play with buttons but toys. I personally never let my bigger birds on my shoulder I have seen too many mishaps and they weren't pretty.

Just my opinion,

Karen

[Azzie]

Why would you have a pooping chewing parrot out when you are wearing your sunday best? Since there's a good chance the parrot will chew buttons anyway, the play shirt is a suggestion to use instead of him chewing on good clothes.

[Cobi Hay]

Ok

 

2 different aspects here for the discussion:

 

1. Shirt subject/button subject: I didn't actually refer to the buttons - I referred to the "no" enforcement. As I was stating in the beginning of this discussion, I have a delicate situation with Neptune, which apparently lost his trust in me, and am working hard on gaining his trust again. Under this circumstances, should I stop a bad behavior, or just let it be and keep the "training" for later on?

 

2. Shoulder sitting: He begs for it. He wouldn't give it up for a second. When I place him on my palm he projects uncomfortableness (wing flapping, trying to jump away etc.) and this is part of the problem I was discussing earlier, saying that he is scared of my hands. Under this case, should I just place him down from my shoulder? Or just let it be until he's more relaxed and then fix it?

 

I must add another thing here. Yesterday he allowed me to give him a little pat on the back of his head, in the first time ever. And it was when he were on my shoulder. So I guess he feels more relaxed there. He has never bitten me aggressively. Even though he does plays with my fingernails and sometimes uses too much pressure there. But it's more of playing me thinks.

[Barbara2]

I don't know if what I am doing is correct but I had a problem with Neo wanting to chew on my shirt when I am holding him. I keep a small toy in my hand that has small blocks, pieces of rope and leather. I put that between his beak and my shirt so that he has something acceptable to chew on. It is really more of a distraction than a correction.

[danmcq]

A new question raised: He tries to nip on my shirt buttons etc.

How should i treat a misbehave? Should I use the time out method? Should I look at him and say in a scolding tone "Don't do that?"

Cobi

 

You did refer to "buttons", thus my reply concerning them.....

 

Your Grey is 1 year old. He is just trying to establish who he is and let you know he has thoughts of his own, unlike his pliability when he was an infant. They get testy and just want to try and get by sitting off on their own as you are describing. It has nothing to do with your having lost his trust. It is all about him learning that he has a brain, how to get his point across to you and you learning that what you want and when you want is not necessarily going to be his desires at that moment in time.

 

The shoulder is fine as long as he does not bite you and you trust him there. My Grey has loved the shoulder since we brought him home at 15 weeks old and that is where he sits or rides most the time. The shoulder is each individuals preference and whether or not you trust your bird there.

Edited October 5, 2010 by danmcq

[Luvparrots]

If your grey is doing something unacceptable you should correct him. If he is biting buttons, then say no and move him or offer something else more acceptable. If he is biting fingers tell him no and offer him an arm to sit on. Correction has nothing to do with trust if done in a kind and unhurtful way. If you allow something sometimes and not at others it just confuses our greys. It should be all the time or nothing at all. Ana Grey loves my shoulder but she loves to nibble my ears or preen my hair so I just flick her off and tell her "no, get off". She is flighted so this just sends her on her way. I am allergic to pain so anything Ana Grey does that could be painful to me is unacceptable.

[Jayd]

Why would you have a pooping chewing parrot out when you are wearing your sunday best? Since there's a good chance the parrot will chew buttons anyway, the play shirt is a suggestion to use instead of him chewing on good clothes.

 

Least we all forget, A Grey, like a child can be taught, in most cases, that what is his is his, and what he can have or can't have. Aplay shirt is that, his, and your Sunday best isn't.....Remember, on this forum, a suggestion or advice, is just that, not a competition of who's right in a mater like this...Out of the mouth of babes....

[Cobi Hay]

Thank you all for the advices and help. I'm seeing a little progress with my little one and it makes me glad.

 

Your Grey is 1 year old. He is just trying to establish who he is and let you know he has thoughts of his own, unlike his pliability when he was an infant. They get testy and just want to try and get by sitting off on their own as you are describing.

 

I agree with your opinion, though I still feel that he is scared of my hands. I get a very strong and nervous reaction from him esp. when he's placed on my palms. Clear and very very sharp there. He wouldn't mind any other part of my body (eg. lap, shoulder, arm) but when it comes to my palms he is afraid to be on my arm and afraid from my touch. Maybe it's a combination of few things, but what I'm doing (or trying to do, with your kind help), is settle things so I can tell what is wrong exactly, and how can it be fixed.

 

I was reading the article posted here about the parrot "hierarchy" and was reading a few more posts from the same person, who wrote there something interesting: He said that one parrot entangled in his friend's hair, and she had to remove him while holding him - and he added that it took her a few months to make her parrot feel more relaxed with her touch. I believe we are talking about the same situation here: A parrot that is growing up, trying to find himself, but also having some kind of "trauma" from something I accidentally did.

 

Here is something. I held him on my palm, which he tried to avoid. So I held his legs between my fingers, not applying pressure but not letting him jump or climb. I used my softest and most soothing voice and told him he's cute, that I love him, and that he's wonderful. And asked him to relax. After a minute or so (which looked like ever) of wing flapping he relaxed. Something I've learned is that "hysteria" of any kind is a very potent state of mind. But the brain can keep hysteria for about a minute or so, and then it stops. After this hysterical minute he got relaxed. And started noticing I'm talking to him, then answered me with little sounds which I already connect with relaxation (A small "koo" sound, that usually is followed with him patting me with his beak and head or showing other types of affection).

 

After seeing he's cool I told him he's a good boy, placed him on my shoulder and told him we're going to get him something to chew on. We went to the kitchen, I chopped a fresh carrot for him (He loves carrots) and placed him all relaxed in the cage with a chopped carrot and some wooden beads for play.

 

Hope I was doing right...

 

(Though I know he's very stubborn and will act the same way next time I try to place him on my palm...)

[danmcq]

Here is something. I held him on my palm, which he tried to avoid. So I held his legs between my fingers, not applying pressure but not letting him jump or climb. I used my softest and most soothing voice and told him he's cute, that I love him, and that he's wonderful. And asked him to relax. After a minute or so (which looked like ever) of wing flapping he relaxed. Something I've learned is that "hysteria" of any kind is a very potent state of mind. But the brain can keep hysteria for about a minute or so, and then it stops. After this hysterical minute he got relaxed. And started noticing I'm talking to him, then answered me with little sounds which I already connect with relaxation (A small "koo" sound, that usually is followed with him patting me with his beak and head or showing other types of affection).

 

After seeing he's cool I told him he's a good boy, placed him on my shoulder and told him we're going to get him something to chew on. We went to the kitchen, I chopped a fresh carrot for him (He loves carrots) and placed him all relaxed in the cage with a chopped carrot and some wooden beads for play.

 

This type of action in regards trapping his Talons between your fingers and letting him flap for a long period is going to make him more nervous of your palm, in my opinion. Being trapped is not a good feeling to a prey animal and I suspect it will not be very long until he gives you a severe bite if you try it again or maybe 3 times from now. Using a positive reward and soft calming voice as you did is great, but perhaps I might suggest you have his favorite treat there with you so you can give the reward instantly to ensure it is entirely associated with what just happened. A delayed reward could have been interpreted for example as for being a good boy on your shoulder ride to the kitchen to get the carrot.

 

Each bird is different as you know and may react differently than what you read or hear of others experiences with their bird. Since this even, is you grey now more fearful of your hand? That is the real gauge of whether he considered it a positive or negative event.

 

I appreciate the effort, time and thought you are putting into making sure you grey has a good learning experience and a gentle way of teaching him the ways of human to bird acceptable social interactions.

Edited October 5, 2010 by danmcq

[Jayd]

In agreement with Dan, "Palming, Laddering" are considered by some as a form of punishment. It is far better you concentrate on the parts of your body he is comfortable with. We all want good thing to happen with or Grey's rapidly, in reality, some of the things we think of as the easiest, take the longest.

[Barbara2]

In agreement with Dan, "Palming, Laddering" are considered by some as a form of punishment. It is far better you concentrate on the parts of your body he is comfortable with. We all want good thing to happen with or Grey's rapidly, in reality, some of the things we think of as the easiest, take the longest.

 

What do you mean by "laddering". (I want to make sure I'm not doing something wrong.)

[Jayd]

This is where you use both hands and have them keep stepping-up from finger to finger. Here's a good and interesting thread....

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190309-A-note-on-Punishment-and-your-Parrot

[Barbara2]

This is where you use both hands and have them keep stepping-up from finger to finger. Here's a good and interesting thread....

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190309-A-note-on-Punishment-and-your-Parrot

 

Thank you. I thought that is what you meant but I wanted to make sure. I watched a You Tube video where a guy was doing that in demonstration of a training method. Glad to know that is not the way to do it because it seemed unnatural to me.

[Jayd]

Thank you, it's a NO-NO....

[Cobi Hay]

Thank you for the article! I enjoyed reading and learning a lot from it.

Neptune is on my shoulder at the moment and I m reading him aloud stuff from this conversation and he seems to be enjoying it (plus trimming feathers and rubbing his head on my nose)

[Jayd]

This is Grey't.......