My confusion

[Cobi Hay]

Hello all !

 

As I was telling in the "welcome" forum, my name is Cobi, and my Congo - Neptune, is 1 year old already and I'm starting to take training more seriously now.

 

So far he knows to step up on my finger and he's usually giving a good feedback (wagging his tail, asking for patting on the neck) - but it's a bit complicated:

 

1. He's more than eager to get a touch in the cage, bending his neck and exposing his feathers there but on my arm he would refuse my fingers. He doesn't bite (unless he's surprised from a quick movement, and than it's a gentle "stay away" bite, nothing aggressive). But he would refuse my touch, moving from side to side uneasily and waving his wings.

 

2. When he's around me he would happily step - up on my finger. When on my fingers he would step up, step down, turn around and cross from one finger to another, but he wouldn't come to me when im asking him to come (like - when he's on his favorite branch in the cage.

 

* Im sure if i was able to find a good training method covering everything it would be much easier for me. I've seen "birdtricks" (?) and it seemed like a good system. Prob it's mostly based on DVD's, and im a hard of hearing. Though I AM able to communicate with people, I have difficulties to understand speakers on digital media without Subtitles or captions (mailed the site asking for it - and they said "No. We don't have captions. Sorry").

 

Anything I can do to get a better contact with Neptune?

 

Thank you

 

Cobi

[Karcar]

Go to goodbirdinc.com Barbara Heidenreich is a wonderful bird trainer. Also tons of good advive here you should be getting a response soon. Wish I could help more I am just starting lessons on bird training myself and I know watching the bird's body language is very important, and lots of patience.

Karen

[Jayd]

Be calm, he's testing you, have a outside perch, away from the cage and practice step-up, from there. A Grey doesn't always do what we want, especially stepping up on command....Jayd

[GoDiego]

moving from side to side uneasily and waving his wings.

 

Just out of curiosity, is Neptune clipped? The reason why I ask is this sounds like he could be saying to you, "come on! I want to go over there!"

 

With regards to touching him when he is out of the cage, what I did with Diego my Amazon was to put him on a table where I would touch him on the wing or back for literally only a second or less and then reward him with a treat straight away. I only ever did this when he approached me rather than chasing him around the table, this way he felt in control of when I touched him and he knew that I was not going to force myself onto him. Giving Diego the choice, gave him a lot of trust in me.

 

After a couple of weeks I was able to stroke his back and wings without him darting forward to get out of my way. Now he has learnt that under the wing on his back is actually a nice place to get a scratch and will now turn his back and back up to me for a good scritch.

 

I also always use a cue for when I ask him if he wants a scratch, I will ask him if he wants one and at the same time wiggle my finger. Now when he sees me wiggling the finger the feathers on the back of his neck will fluff up, this is his way of saying "sure that would be good" If his feathers stay slicked down or he moves away, I tell him "Not a problem" and walk away. Again this is giving him the trust that I will not force myself onto him.

 

He's more than eager to get a touch in the cage, bending his neck and exposing his feathers there but on my arm he would refuse my fingers.

 

I might be wrong but I think this is because he knows he is in his safe place, his cage. On your arm, he probably feels more exposed, if he is clipped then again he may feel out of control as he knows he cannot escape. Gain the trust with him that your not going to do anything to him unless he wants it and this should change.

but he wouldn't come to me when im asking him to come (like - when he's on his favorite branch in the cage.

 

I think that this will come in time, once he has gained some trust in you, even Diego does not always come when I ask him, but that's fine I just accept that he's not in the mood and so walk away.

 

Barbara Heidenreich is a great bird trainer, I'm not so keen on Birdtricks but this is my personal opinion. Also don't forget to look on Youtube as there are loads of great basic training videos to watch and all for free

[Jayd]

As Caroline said, I don't recommend birdtricks!!!! As a side note, some Greys never enjoy being touched. Out side of there cage, they feel free and no longer have to do what you request to get out of there cage. When a baby goes through there terrible two's all kinds of strange things happen!!! Caroline is good at baby training.....Jayd

[judygram]

I agree with the others, leave birdtricks alone as it is just a money making gimmick, you will learn so much more from Barbara Heidenreich and the goodbird.com site.

Carolina has given you some sound advice, greys are not like dogs who would be glad to come when called, sometimes they like to control their environment and make decisions themselves and we are best to respect that and ask again another time.

[Cobi Hay]

Just out of curiosity, is Neptune clipped? The reason why I ask is this sounds like he could be saying to you, "come on! I want to go over there!"

 

Yep. He's clipped. I know there are many who disagree with this method but my house is all windows. A flying parrot would crush into something for sure.

 

When he moves from side to side it's more like "Get your hand off me. I don't like it". The rest of the time he would just sit on my arm relaxed and look at me with big eyes. He likes it when I talk to him. But he hates it when I touch him. From what I read here it sounds reasonable.

 

When I place him on a table (or the floor) he would just get out of my reach and stay there. When I show him a treat he just ignores it. If I step forward giving him the treat, he would grab it and get further away to eat it. Then hehe would stay there and ignore any effort of mine to show him another treat.

 

But i do know he wants my attention. He enjoys being with me (when on my arm or in the same room with me. He's calling me from other parts of the house for company and he surely feels safe enough around me to speak.

 

Ok - So I can define the "problem" with a normal African Gray behavior with touching, and not something I accidentally did to harm him (I feared I might did something like that!).

 

Should i kind of "start over" - building his trust using treats from inside the cage and taking it slowly and easily? I would just give him the time and the patience needed for him to want to get out and get some more attention?

 

How should I respond to his calls ? I can't be in the living room (Where the cage is) all the time. On the other hand, he's calling me but doesn't want to get out of the cage.

 

It's confusing: He's calling me, but he doesn't want to be with me: He wants me to be with him. Does it sound reasonable?

 

Thank you all for the help! I will surely go through the site you gave me :-)

 

Cobi

[Luvparrots]

My grey/eclectus/amazon call me now and then and I just call back. They just want to know I have not forgotten them. So answer your grey and see if that helps. As for the not wanting to be touched, some times they just want to be left alone. When Ana Grey does this, I just move on. It doesn't take too long before she is looking for me. My fids are out almost all day long as I am retired and they are fully flighted.

[judygram]

As Janet said when he calls to you when you are out of his sight he is just wanting to be reassured that you are still around so you can call back to him to let him know you are still there.

I would go back to square one on the building trust again, just accept what he gives you and don't force him into anything he doesn't want, some greys do not like to be touched much and maybe Neptune is one of them so accept the fact that you can't handle him much but you can enjoy his company without having to actually touch him.

He does want to be with you but on his terms but I realize you cannot be with him all the time so be there for him when you can and the other times let him know you are in the house but not in his line of sight, by calling back you are reassuring him of your presence.

[Jayd]

This is all normal, he's testing the water. When you can, sit by him, read to him, sing, tell jokes, tell him everything you doing. When you go to put your hand in his cage, tell him what your doing, greet him each day, sing him a song. When he calls you, say"Gimme a kiss" and make a kiss sound, treat him like a young child whose home in bed for the day...Patience is the secret.....

[Ray P]

My grey Corky will some times want to be alone untill She see Cricket my amazon near me and she will make a b line to me land on my sholder and drop her head and rub it on my ear. Also I have a perch that is mounted on the door and when I tap the perch they will get on the door perch and I can open the door and than will step up on my finger or arm.

If they don`t want to come out they don`t come to the perch but that is not very often

[Cobi Hay]

First of all - thank you people for the help and the good advices.

I've been scanning the goodbirdinc site looking for some good training book. I've seen there is an E-book i can download, and it contains Articles and videos. It looks cool and im planning on mailing the site asking if it's captioned (for hard of hearing people).

 

As for now: Im having alot of progress.

 

Neptune learned a new word: Daddy. And he says is all the time and it's funny. He even mumbled "good boy" today and he imitates my laughter so I think your tips were very helpful.

 

Just taking it from step one:

Giving a lot of good feedback. Sunflower seeds. He even accepted some patting today in the cage. Placed him on top of the cage (there are a few toys there) and was just waiting patiently there. After some playing around he came to me for some seeds, took them and went back to the other side. I must mention it's a big change since in the past he wouldn't even come for a treat.

 

What I actually do is coming to the cage randomly. Talking a little. Offering some treats and making him feel more confident. I feel it works but as you all already said - it will take some time.

[judygram]

Thats wonderful Cobi and just think in terms of small steps for that is what it is and you are making progress, just keep up the good work as you are doing just fine, thanks for the update on Neptune.

[GoDiego]

Great news that there is some progress with Neptune.

 

When I place him on a table (or the floor) he would just get out of my reach and stay there. When I show him a treat he just ignores it. If I step forward giving him the treat, he would grab it and get further away to eat it. Then hehe would stay there and ignore any effort of mine to show him another treat.

 

Have you tried just sitting either at the table or on the floor reading a book or magazine out loud with a few treats near to you? This way your acting really indifferent to him coming over or not, they can sense our body language so by you calmly reading he may pick up that your not there for just him and so curiosity hopefully will get the better of him. When or if he decides to come over to have a closer look at you or the treats, just lower the book and say "hi there, help yourself to a treat" then carry on reading. This way he knows that even when he comes near to you, you are still not going to ask anything from him.

 

Like Judy says think in terms of small steps, remember you will never get to the top of a mountain in one leap.

[Cobi Hay]

What a wonderful idea! Thank you! I'll do that :-)

[Cobi Hay]

Ok

 

Here are some updates (and thank you all again for all the ideas and support!)

 

I placed Neptune on a table, placed some toys on the table so he could play. Placed some treat next to me and told Neptune that he got some free time and he can play and do whatever he wants. To my surprise he ran towards me and tried to jump from the table to my chair. I said hello - Have some treats! And he ignored the treats and just jumped on my chair, climbed on my lag and sat on my knee. Again, far away from my reach so I can't pat him. He was just sitting there having fun and fixing his feathers.

 

Back in the cage later, and through the bars, he was signing to me he wants patting. When I opened the cage he ran from my hand. Closing it again, he came to the bars asking me to pat him. So on and on. When I gave up he went to one of the toys, shoved it a little so it would move and placed his head below it, so the toy would pat him.

 

He really wants to be patted. Just not by me (?)

[Jayd]

Give him time, some Grey's are cage territorial, your doing right, let him come to you, he's building his trust of you. Jayd

[danmcq]

In addition to Jays great thoughts, he may want a light scratch from outside the cage. Then you would not be physically intruding into his cage.

 

You have made great progress and thanks for the update!

[rawleyd]

My 7 month old grey does the same thing. she will make noises for my attention and hang on the cage door. when I go over to her, she'll start scooting away on her perch and I just tickle her and rough up her head and neck. she gives me play bites and leans down for scratchies. makes the funniest little noises when I wrestle with her on the perch she likes. she really enjoys it. Maybe you should try some tickling and touching more often

[Azzie]

My almost 2 year old Cleo does the same. When in her cage and I am standing next to her, she will bend her head asking for a scratch. I move my fingers through the bar to do as she ask, only to have her shuffle just out of reach. I've no idea why she does it, as she loves to sit on me and play with me.

 

It sounds like you are making great progress, and I think just interact with him on HIS terms for now, and keep working at it like you have been. The fact he was sitting ON your knee and grooming his feathers is a good sign. A bird is vulnerable when grooming, with its head turned and twisted away and not keeping an eye out for predators. So the fact he is willing to do that is a big step in the right direction.

[GoDiego]

Back in the cage later, and through the bars, he was signing to me he wants patting. When I opened the cage he ran from my hand. Closing it again, he came to the bars asking me to pat him. So on and on. When I gave up he went to one of the toys, shoved it a little so it would move and placed his head below it, so the toy would pat him.

 

Is your cage a front opening one? If it is then, try sitting in front of it with the door open. Rest your arm on the the bottom of the cage door and just talk to him. This way you have part of you in his cage area but you are showing him that your not going to make a move on him. After a while he may come over to investigate your elbow or arm, when he starts doing this, change it to having your hand resting on the bottom of the cage door. Again this is showing him that even when you are in his space you are not going to force yourself onto him, letting him make his mind up whether to come to you or not.

 

And he ignored the treats and just jumped on my chair, climbed on my lag and sat on my knee. Again, far away from my reach so I can't pat him. He was just sitting there having fun and fixing his feathers.

 

This is great progress and he obviously does not have a really big problem with you otherwise he would in no way want to do this. Like Azzie says when a parrot grooms, it shows that they are relaxed with a situation. Plus to ignore the treats and just want to sit on your lap means that being close to you is much better than any treats you can offer.

 

Keep doing what you are doing as each update you post is showing that you are both developing a trust of each other and it's great to hear your progress.

[judygram]

Thats excellent advice Carolina and remember small steps, be patient and in time good things will follow.

[Cobi Hay]

Is your cage a front opening one? If it is then, try sitting in front of it with the door open. Rest your arm on the the bottom of the cage door and just talk to him.

 

Did that. He just passed over me and climbed to the top of the cage, sitting there and looking at me.

 

Thank you all for the support :-) Im taking it step by step and I'll let you all know about my progress.

 

So far I had one little success: He allowed me patting him for a few seconds today inside the cage without moving away. I told him "good boy" and gave him a small treat. It happened again and then I decided to let go. Not push it too much at the same time and leave him with a good taste for the next encounter.

[judygram]

So far I had one little success: He allowed me patting him for a few seconds today inside the cage without moving away. I told him "good boy" and gave him a small treat. It happened again and then I decided to let go. Not push it too much at the same time and leave him with a good taste for the next encounter.

 

Thats a small step, one of many to come, you are doing excellent, keep up the good work.

[Cobi Hay]

Hey All !

 

Some news. As you all expected, me guessing, we are having some ups and downs. It's not going smoothly and sometimes I must admit it's disappointing and difficult because I feel there is a small progress, and then a step backward. But I'm working very hard because it's important for me. Every time I feel it "glitches" backwards, I just take it easy, place Neptune back and give us both some time to rest.

 

Did something which I might should have done long ago - Got a clicker.

 

I do feel it's a good thing because it's new for both me and Neptune - a "clean" and new page to start from.

 

I'm doing some basics. Step up/down commands. Talking. Reading aloud . I do try to give a little pat here and there but he gets all stiffened and tries to escape. I also noticed that the first thing Neptune is doing when I open the cage is going backwards.

 

Sorry - I just don't understand what's the magic here: How will a parrot that practically avoid me change?

 

To share with you guys - I think the hardest part was going to the pet store, seeing a few beautiful CAGs there, and they were playful and asked for patting and cuddling! And I was like - what am I doing wrong? I was his only keeper. Bought him directly from the breeder when he was 3 months. I honestly thought his behavior is normal (avoiding my contact) 'till I saw other CAGS and heard stories from other keepers who have a wonderful feathered companions.

 

Well I guess i'll just keep trying. I can't do anything else right?