Camelot Macaws - Photos please

[texascowboy1979]

hey everyone. Im picking up 3 babies tomrrow, Wednesday. Im getting 1 blue gold, and 2 baby camelots with no feathers yet.

 

The breeder said one of the camelot babies has a few red feathers... the brother and sistes from the 1st cluch both came out yellow camelots. Im picking up the the Yellow Camelot babies in Oct... but Im curious to see pictures of your camelots, alll colors and ages, as long as they are camelots. Ive seen red camelots that look like Scarlets, and Ive seen Orange Camelots, yellows, and others. Please post ur pictures... Thank you

Edited September 22, 2010 by texascowboy1979

[Jayd]

This is a multiple Hybrid, a weaned baby cost's upward of $2100.00 dollars, there purpose of breeding these birds is to make money because of there color. The health and longevity of Hybrid parrots are not known at this time, nor is the out come of selective cross breeding. Our Salsa is a Hybrid, and in comparing Salsa to the two Amazons she's the child of, there's many notable differences, How great is the differences from a multiple Hybrid? And how will their long turn health be affected? I will buy to help or rescue a Hybrid, but other wise I'm against breeding them... This is my opioion. Jayd.....They are beautiful, but at what cost... http://www.many-feathers.com/Camelot-Macaw.htm

[Azzie]

Those are incredibly colourful, and I can see the attraction for people.

What exactly do you mean with the term hybird Jay? Is it a cross between say a blue and gold and a scarlet?

And why are there uncertainties regarding health and longevity of hybrids? Don't these birds naturally mate with another in the wild to produce such offspring?

[texascowboy1979]

From my knowledge, The term hybrid has been used from by a cross bewteen two animals from a different species, they can be from the same Genus to have better results on producing the offspring. A Camelot Macaw is a 2nd Hybrid cross, which means:

 

Breed 1 = Blue & Gold X Scarlet = Catalina

Breed 2 = Scarlet X Catalina = Camelot

 

Its been noted that hybrids mature earlier and can reproduce younger than full blooded macaws. Many people have different views on crossing animals. I take both sides. I have breeding pairs to keep the blood line pure, and and I have breeding pairs to create certain hybrids.

 

On Macaws, I support crossing breeds to improve color and friendlyness. Same goes for Peafowl, chickens and other animals around the farm.

 

On other hand, I do not support crossing certain animals like Eclectus. I belive in keeping them pure. As it is it is hard to tell the difference from between Red Sided, Vosmaeri, and SI. I know the female is somewhat distinguishable, but the male to me is the same bird. I keep them seperate at all times.

 

Its really up to the breeder and I know that some people look down on it, but I have no problem with it. The Yellow Camelot is a Beautiful Yellow macaw.

[Jayd]

Those are incredibly colourful, and I can see the attraction for people.

What exactly do you mean with the term hybird Jay? Is it a cross between say a blue and gold and a scarlet?

And why are there uncertainties regarding health and longevity of hybrids? Don't these birds naturally mate with another in the wild to produce such offspring?

A Camelot is a "Multiple Hybrid", [not just once] repeatedly re bread to produce to create a mutation that doesn't occur any-ware in nature, this is done for the purpose of, as texascowboy1979 said "On Macaws, I support crossing breeds to improve color and friendlyness." These are "Designer Birds". This is selective breeding for the sole purpose of increasing value, not to help a problem or increase their lives. Most people who buy such a creation do so for the color, not the desire for a companion or the love of a parrot. We don't even know how long they'll live, our what there health will be like. texascowboy1979 said:"On other hand, I do not support crossing certain animals like Eclectus. I belive in keeping them pure." Question?, Whats the differences? There unique unto them selves!!!! Jayd

Hybrid macaws are predominantly a domestic phenomena created from taking the original species from their natural habitat and keeping them with other species in a limited community setting. Hybridization does occur naturally in the wild, however, it is more difficult to document and there is no proof they do.... One could say that hybrid macaws, as we know them, are primarily the product of civilization & globalization. At this time there is not enough recorded data for comparison to make general conclusions regarding the hybrid offspring, health, life span, temperament, coloring & genetic viability for future breeding.

[texascowboy1979]

Most people who buy such a creation do so for the color, not the desire for a companion or the love of a parrot.

 

True... most people buy birds for there color, and work out the differences later. I compleatly agree. Im trying to produce a solid yellow macaw.

 

Eclectus Question?, Whats the differences?

 

I guess there really is no difference, its just a matter of preference. I was looking for a Vos Male, and I was not able to find a pure Vos... only crosses... But then I found someone who has them and I was able to get hone. In my preference, the only ones I cross are macaws... not any other parrot.

 

Thanks.

[Jayd]

True... most people buy birds for there color, and work out the differences later. I compleatly agree. Im trying to produce a solid yellow macaw.

Most people buy a parrot out of love or the need to help or share there lives with Sir, not for "Color" or just to show off or to say they have one!!! I'm sorry, sincerely, but I firmly believe that it's wrong to do this for the reasons Ive stated..any birds, not just Macaws. Jayd

[Birdnut]

Interesting discussion. Hybridization is certainly a controversial issue in aviculture.

 

We have a hybrid bird: a "parasol" cockatoo (G2/U2 hybrid). She's a lovely creature and very sweet. We had discussed getting a cockatoo for some time, and my husband was just drawn to her.

 

I can certainly appreciate the arguments against hybridization. I think it's an important point to consider that some of these birds may be headed for the situation where the species is only maintained in captivity. That is certainly a good reason to maintain the purity of the species.

 

I'm not sure about the health issues that Jayd raises. These sound like some very legitimate concerns. I do know that hybridization has been used extensively in agriculture. Many of the cattle breeds are hybrids which were bred to produce cattle with more hardiness and better resistance to insects, heat, etc., by crossing English cattle with African cattle (which are a different species).

 

In the veterinary field, I heard a lot of reference to a phenomenon called "hybrid vigor." This referred to the idea that the more separated the genetic background of two individuals, the hardier and more vigorous their offspring. I don't know how this might apply to parrots, or how much "separation" can be involved and still provide this benefit.

 

I know we all care very much about the welfare of birds in aviculture and certainly want to oppose any practice which produces unhealthy birds.

[Elvenking]

I used to see a bit of truth in the fact that people buy birds for their beautiful plumage. But it should also mark the integration of a new member of the family, not just a show bird or a living decoration. Hopefully more is intended than that. Otherwise, we're talking about another narrow minded individual.

[Dave007]

Texas

 

These are simple examples concerning mixing different macaws. I'll only use 2 species here although this apllies to all macaw species.

 

A blue and gold has a certain personality that only they have.

They live to a certain age that's documented.

 

A Military macaw has a certain personality that only they have.

They live to a certain age which is also documented.

 

So, take a military and breed it with a blue and gold and the chick's actual length of it's life is then unknown because it's been altered.

The personality of the chick isn't the same as it's parents because 2 personalities have been intermixed and there's no way to tell what that final personality will be. Actually, some hybrid macaws can turn out to have terrible personalities. What personality the chick develops is called pot luck.

Mixing different macaws because of the shorter amount of time it takes to breed certain species only creates weaker chicks. A certain equal amount of maturity should be present which can only be obtained by breeding 2 birds who are the same thing.

The health of the chick may be altered because the requirements of each species has been altered/mixed.

 

""""On Macaws, I support crossing breeds to improve color and friendlyness. """"

 

Creating hybrid macaws has no effect on friendliness. There's no guarantees concerning friendliness. Changing the color? Yes changes do occur. Actually, that's the main reason that people mix different hybrid species of macaws. There's a market for oddly colored birds. Color shouldn't be the main reason to get a macaw or any other species.

The baby that arrives can never be bred again in order to go back to a pure strain. They can breed with any other macaw and the final results will be unknown as far as color because no hybrid macaw has a dominant gene anymore.

 

Finally, a person has a much better chance on learning how to adjust and deal with a new baby macaw that has a guaranteed

type of personality, life span and household acceptance such as a blue and gold or a green wing or a military etc. each of these birds have different personalities and mixing different personalities isn't such a good idea just because of more vibrant color and perceived friendliness.

 

The only reason people will mix these birds is because it's actually possible. It doesn't make it right.

Most other species of birds won't go near each other even though they are the same species and look almost identical.

 

A yellow naped amazon won't breed with a yellow crowned amazon.

A yellow crowned amazon won't breed with a double yellow headed amazon.

A Lesser Crested Cockatoo won't breed with a Greater Crested Cockatoo---both are almost identical.

An Umbrella Cockatoo won't breed with a Mollucan Cockatoo

A congo african grey won't breed with a timneh african grey even though people will swear that what they have is actually a *timgo* It can only be produced by a person and very little success happens. A person who has a *timgo is usually the owner of a Timneh that has the normal colored beak but has a vibrant red colored tail and is a bigger bird than a regular timneh. If Timgo were actually available, there would be a huge market for them simply because of their genetically different color. Fortunately, getting that type of bird is hard to do.

Congo greys incubation time is different

Period of time to eggs hatching is different.

Parental habits concerning chicks are different between Congos and timnehs concerning how they do things.

Methods of feeding chicks is different between congos and timnehs.

Personalities are different with pairs of timneh breeders and pairs of congo breeders.

 

And I can mention loads of others and that's why I think intermixing for the final minor results is bad.

 

There's just many pure bred greater amount or lesser amount of colored parrots out there that are easily available.

 

Unfortunately, most of the end results of mixing macaws can't be seen until the birds are much older.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Dave007

[judygram]

I can always count on Dave to tell it like it is and why fool Mother Nature for she did an excellent job with all the different species of birds and the colors they were hatched with is what they were meant to be, man shouldn't be trying to create other colors or combinations.

[Jayd]

I can always count on Dave to tell it like it is and why fool Mother Nature for she did an excellent job with all the different species of birds and the colors they were hatched with is what they were meant to be, man shouldn't be trying to create other colors or combinations.

Thanks Dave for your truthful explanation of this sad trend. Your reply's are always useful and much needed. We can always count on you Sir. Jayd

[Jayd]

Thank you birdnut, you wrote: Many of the cattle breeds are hybrids which were bred to produce cattle with more hardiness and better resistance to insects, heat, etc., by crossing English cattle with African cattle (which are a different species). This is what I meant by there not be bread for any other reason then "Vanity". Our Salsa is a "Hybrid" and we love her dearly. her father was a Blue-front and her mother was a Orange-wing,[Yellow-nape,ignore please] we were given her for raising 4 of there other birds, we don't accept money for anything we do with live birds, cages, toys yes, not birds......Thanks Jayd

 

Note: Corrected my stupid mistake,Sorry Jayd

Edited September 23, 2010 by Jayd
Correct my mistake...

[Georgiesmum]

Jayd does this mean all orange wings are hybirds?

[Dave007]

A blue front isn't a hybrid

A yellow nape isn't a hybrid

An orange wing isn't a hybrid

All are standard breed amazons

It may be possible that the matings of the 2 types that Jay is referring to may have created a bird that looked like an orange wing but the offspring isn't a orange wing, just one that may look like it

 

Go to Jay's room ( Amazon Room) and you'll see multiple pictures of Amazons. All are standard amazons.

There's no hybrids; there's no mutations in the pictures. None of the birds in those pictures would have any desire to mate with each other.

 

There's even more pictures of others that could have been put in but at the time, pics weren't quickly available and they too would have been standard amazons.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Dave007

[Georgiesmum]

Oh right its just that jayd told me that salsa is an orange wing and then above said she was a hybird with two diff breed parents so i was confused

[Jayd]

Oh right its just that jayd told me that salsa is an orange wing and then above said she was a hybird with two diff breed parents so i was confused

Georgiesmum, Dave and everyone else on the forum.. I deeply apologize for the incorrect statement I made, I had a bad day yesterday and didn't feel my best, was at the Doc's most of the day. To correct this, "Salsa's dad was a Blue-front and her mom was a Orange-wing", she takes after her mom and her brother Bartly, takes after his dad!".. My deepest apologizes. Salsa was captive breed, not wild... Thanks Jayd Edited September 23, 2010 by Jayd

[Georgiesmum]

No prob at all it just got me wondering lol

[GoDiego]

I deeply apologize for the incorrect statement I made, I had a bad day yesterday and didn't feel my best, was at the Doc's most of the day.

 

Everyone has doh moments Jayd (me more than most) if you have not been well and after your sad news about Prince, I'm sure everyone understands. I hope you feel better soon, don't forget not only our wonderful feathered friends need their health looking after.