African Grey in the Classroom

[77railer]

Good Day,

My name is Leroy Steigerwalt, and I am a 5th grade teacher @ Kingsbury Elementary located in Sumter SC. I had my students research various birds as a possible classroom pet. Once my class discovered that an African Grey has the mental capacity of a 5 year old child they were very interested. After we read Because of Winn Dixie one child asked the class if we thought an African Grey would be smart enough to "feel" unwanted. Needless to say my class is now committed to adopting an African Grey that has been rescued or needs to be relocated. If any of you might have pros and cons to attempting this or may have resources at hand to make this possible please chime in. I am eager to do this and have had experience keeping other breeds of birds in the past. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Leroy Steigerwalt

[Birdnut]

Hmmm. I am thinking that an African Grey might not be the best choice for your classroom pet. They are one of the more challenging parrots to keep and manage. I don't think it would be comfortable with the quick movements of children; many of them are uncomfortable around young children.

 

Would this be your pet that you would bring with you to the classroom? A 5th grade class is going to be there for a term, and then they will move on. I wouldn't get a parrot for a classroom project, unless it is going to be your bird that you are committed to keeping and caring for and then sharing with your class.

 

If that is the case, I would suggest something more like a conure, whose energy more matches the energy of children. Sun conures are beautiful and playful, and blue crowned conures are clownish and can be wonderful talkers. Show your class the movie "Paulie."

 

Just my opinion. I am very interested in what others think about this ....

Edited September 17, 2010 by Birdnut

[Luvparrots]

You will need to do some reading about African Greys as they usually choose one person to "own". They normally do not like or trust children. You can't leave them alone in a classroom for the weekend as they are intelligent and being "abandoned" could cause a grey to get bored and to pluck its feathers, not a good thing. Also greys don't talk non-stop, if they are uncomfortable or feel unsafe they clam up, well like a clam.

Edited September 17, 2010 by luvparrots

[77railer]

"Would this be your pet that you would bring with you to the classroom?" Yes I will be keeping the bird. It will stay in the classroom during the day and at my home at night/weekends.

I am definetly open to other breeds of parrots. I think the "adoption" aspect of my kids endeavor is the most important. They want to give of themselves and anyway I can give them the chance to do that would be awesome. Anyone know of any birds that need a good home?

[Jayd]

Thank you so much for what you want to do and for your open mind. If I may suggest, if the rescue bird has any problems, especially mental, I would advise not to select them, even though the desire to help is strong. I'm Going to suggest you select a Amazon parrot, they are known to coexist with large groups of people, they are independent and play by themselves, they can be corrected the same as children can, they talk well and can be taught to answer question's, and importantly, there low maintenance easy to feed, and like a child they have to be taught what is good for them. [they tend to get fat] really their just green children. A 8-15 month old Yellow-nape would be a ideal bird, a Blue-front is also a good choice. Conures, are some what excitable and can be nervous birds. Here's a couple of link to a useful Zon info...Thank You Jayd

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190343-Amazon-of-the-Week-Index

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190341-For-a-beginner

Edited September 17, 2010 by Jayd

[Jayd]

I forgot to mention, they're very good singers, they can sing Opera, can learn to sing along with the children, and some have a vocabulary of over 650 words....Jayd

[Birdnut]

I'm Going to suggest you select a Amazon parrot, they are known to coexist with large groups of people, they are independent and play by themselves, they can be corrected the same as children can, they talk well and can be taught to answer question's, and importantly, there low maintenance easy to feed, and like a child they have to be taught what is good for them. [they tend to get fat] really their just green children.

 

Now, Jayd, you're makin' me want a zon! LOL! (No more birds - repeat - no more birds!)

 

This does sound like a good choice. I guess I was thinking of smaller parrots with liability issues in mind, as the larger parrots are capable of a more serious bite. Part of the learning experience in this classroom would need to be how to behave around a parrot. I imagine 5th graders are capable of learning this very well.

[Jayd]

Yes, get a Zon. you don't know what your missing!!!! Good post...Yes Zon's can be taught to behave around large groups of people, a Zon thinks mostly with their stomachs and getting attention, but then, they are wild and accidents happen. A Zon "Clamps more then bite's" they'll put their beak around you finger, instead of the point, very seldom do they draw blood, again, they are very sociable if trained from a young age. When it comes to bonding, they have there favorite person and also their flock who they play with etc, a Zon never grows up! Your can have many Zon's in your home....Thanks Jayd

P.S. I'd never give up my Grey's, Zon's and Grey's are so different... You'll never know a Zon until you live with one.....lol

[danmcq]

Welcome Leroy!

 

It's always a pleasure to see someone doing research and asking questions before taking the leap into having a parrot.

 

Since this is going to be a "Classroom Pet" and staying there during classes. You should be aware not only of what Jay has written, but also that any parrot species can become very loud and annoying at times. What will the ramifications to your class be when this occurs on a daily basis? I can guarantee you it will interrupt your class due to the kids getting a kick out of it and laughing, which will only encourage any parrot to do it longer and more often. They love reactions and once they receive one, they will keep increasing that behavior for fun and excitement.

 

The other thing you need to be aware of, is that children by nature love to stick fingers in cages. A Parrots powerful beak has the ability to quickly penetrate deep into a finger and snap a tendon or blood vessel, especially to this small and soft hands of children. Another thing children inevitably end up doing for excitement is slapping the cage or sticking an object into it such as a pencil or pen. Over a long term period, any parrot could become very aggressive and emotionally damaged.

 

A Zon or any Parrot in the right knowledgeable hands can be wonderful life long companions. Zons are very outgoing as Jay has described and a joy to be around.

 

One thing you should know about a Zon versus a Grey. I have been around many Zon's over the last 4 years and can tell you they are 10 times noisier than a grey. They will just sing and chatter to no end at times. As they reach sexual maturity, they also become a challenge to manage and thus the rescues Number One species... are Zons. I am involved with a rescue that presently has 37 Zons up for adoption. Most of them reached sexual maturity and the owners were just not ready for the changes much to the detriment of these poor souls now in rescue. Some worse mentally than others. Under good fostering care with tons of patience and love, they are normally brought back to the state of being a good companion bird for the right owner. Some will never be a cuddle muffin for up close and personal interaction, but they are still a joy to interact with on a less personal level. They know the baggage each bird has and which would be the most receptive to an environment you are planning on keeping it in 8 hours a day, five days a week.

 

One other thought on classrooms. Birds are highly sensitive to any airborne chemicals. Chemicals in a school and classrooms used for cleaning and disinfecting could kill the bird, even though you cannot smell it. No parrot owner uses strong cleaning chemicals in their home due to it. There is a ton of information on this site and the internet on birds and poisons to them.

 

My best advice to you, would be to go to a rescue and speak with the caring staff about your thoughts and intentions. They will be able to guide you to the right bird and teach you what you need to know.

 

Your intentions are admirable, but I would strongly suggest deep thought into to what you think the long term outcome may be.

Edited September 19, 2010 by danmcq

[GoDiego]

As Jayd has said Amazons are great parrots that adjust well to lots of activity and noise without getting upset, in fact they are more likely to try and join in. They love the hustle and bustle of a busy environment and enjoy showing off to new people. Like Dan has written Amazons can be quite noisy and tend to compete with noise levels. Diego my Amazon is very laid back and quite if the mood in the house is tranquil, heat up the atmosphere a bit with lots of talking, my children running around and being excited etc. Diego gets loud to match. Apart from that they are beautiful birds, with heaps of character, and I mean heaps! If you decided to get an Amazon you will be adding another child into your classroom LOL. Although they are great fun, they do need a lot of attention and training but in some respects that is the same with all parrots.

 

Another thing I would bare in mind about having a parrot in a classroom area is, how are you going to control where the parrot goes? I am sure in a classroom with many children, doors and windows get opened? I am constantly monitoring my 2 boys with the windows and doors and this is a job with just 2 of them, not sure how easy it would be with a whole classroom? Even if you were considering clipping your birds wings, they can still head out of an open window if spooked, as clipping wings is not a guarantee that they won't fly. Or will it be in a cage during the day?

[Talon]

P.S. I'd never give up my Grey's, Zon's and Grey's are so different... You'll never know a Zon until you live with one.....lol

 

I second this!!

 

However, as Dan has said. Most schools have required cleaning chemicals they use. That would be very harmful to any bird. As Jayd has said, Amazons do have a bite, in fact, they prefer to clamp on your finger as they step up, some think they are trying to bite you, but they are really making sure that finger perch is stable, steady and strong! Kids tend to scream and not want to go near the bird when this happens. Also, as Dan has stated, When they reach sexual maturity, they are very difficult to handle. Even taking them out of their cage can be a problem. My Amazon is now 1 1/2 years old. She is very territorial of her cage even though she is out of it most of the day. She does NOT want me to ever clean it, or stick my hand in it when she is looking. She will try and attack me in her own sweet way....I never let her have the upper hand, although it costs me in pain sometimes...

I would suggest parakeets that you could take home at night and on the weekend.

[Jayd]

This forum is wonderful and all the responses are of the greatest value. This link is about Amazon's in public contact. Like others have said, you'd need a separate room to keep you bird in next to the classroom. As pointed out, any training of the bird would require equal training of the children... Another suggestion might be is like a 'Show and Tell" where you bring the bird to class one day a week, you could video it's activity at your home and bring the tape in each day, Amazons adapt well to this type of activity. As a final note, after going to all this trouble, getting everything together etc, after a few days, the bird might not like you... http://www.parrothouse.com/amazingamazonsarticle.html Thanks Jayd

[Jayd]

Most schools have required cleaning chemicals they use. That would be very harmful to any bird.

Quote Danmcq:One other thought on classrooms. Birds are highly sensitive to any airborne chemicals. Chemicals in a school and classrooms used for cleaning and disinfecting could kill the bird, even though you cannot smell it. No parrot owner uses strong cleaning chemicals in their home due to it. There is a ton of information on this site and the internet on birds and poisons to them.

 

Any bird needs a controlled environment..

 

Were proud of our forum we try to provide both negative and positive information to help ...

Jayd

[77railer]

Lots of good information and suggestions. I am currently trying to acquire a cage that would house a medium/large bird as the first leg of our journey. As far as "classroom management" for the bird goes...that would take some getting used to. In past classes we have had several class pets and the kids did a good job respecting the animals. The door would be an issue that I would be interested to see how the class decides to handle. I find if I let them "own" the idea they do a much better job of carrying out the task. From further research and suggestions on the board I am open to a conure or amazon parrot. With funds being an issue in education we are hoping that someone may donate a baby to our class. We will have the habitat waiting on the bird long before we acquire it at this rate but everything happens in due time. My wife and I have looked at conures and a few amazons in a pet store and she is excited about having one that comes home with me. I appreciate all the suggestions and comments and look forward to hearing what you have to say in the future.

 

Mr. S (what my kids call me)

[Jayd]

Thank You. Please, when you get your bird, get a fully weaned one. Most parrots in the wild don't leave there nest till there at least 6 months old.

Thank you, and again welcome....Jayd

Here's another useful link of links: http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190489-Welcome-PROSPECTIVE-and-NEW-GREY-Owner-s..

[JDS5607]

It's great your kids have such an interest in having a classroom pet!

 

However; I have to agree with everyone else, I would suggest not getting a grey for this purpose.

 

I used to breed lovebirds, and I had a teacher come and adopt a baby from me. She told me that it was her pet, but she would be taking him or her to school with her everyday.

I think this is a good idea, because lovebirds are 1. quieter, usually... and 2. smaller, and easier to manage and keep entertained... not to mention the bird was hers, and the kids were only allowed to look, not touch. It ended up working out really well, and she took him two or three days a week, so he could still have his quiet time at home.

Please also remember the attention span of both a grey and a fifth grader.. they may both be too distracted with each other to be able to focus

 

 

Whatever you decide, welcome to the forum!

[GoDiego]

The door would be an issue that I would be interested to see how the class decides to handle.

 

From this I'm thinking you will have it out of it's cage whilst in the classroom. If this is the case then another thing to consider is that Amazon's are extremely inquisitive parrots and from my experience with Diego very rarely want to stay still for long. Diego is constantly making beelines to things he should not be touching, flying to my husbands desk and trying to steal his pens etc. It may be worth considering how this may disrupt a class if you are trying to teach them as you would need to keep stopping to deal with your feathered student.

 

I'm also going to now comment as a parent of young children. I would be worried if their teachers had a large parrot free in the classroom as I'm aware of how parrots can behave. Parrots are not domesticated like a cat or dog and their wild side can often show. Children can only act as children do, and my concern would be how a child would react if a large parrot flew to their desk or even onto their body. Can you trust the children in your class to stay calm as any quick sudden movements could be deemed as threatening behaviour to a parrot. How would you feel if one of the children got bitten from something like this? Also how would the parents react?

 

I think it's great that you are really involving your class into this project, rather than dismissing their thoughts. However, I'm thinking maybe a smaller bird like a parakeet or Love Bird may be more suited? Or to do what Jayd said and that is to only take the bird into school a couple of days but have it in a cage.

Edited September 21, 2010 by GoDiego

[77railer]

GoDiego - Thank you for your reply and thoughts. From time to time I would take the bird out of its cage. Possibly for an incentive for the class reading a certain number of books or scoring a certain percentage on a test. Im thinking from reading all of the thoughts and websites that it might turn into a day a week or so. Depending on the behavior of the bird, and my classrooms reaction. I spoke with a breeder today that also suggested a yellow naped amazon. Funding is a serious issue since I cannot use school money to purchase from an individual. Has to be a company like petco that we already have an account with. This means if/when I do this I will have to use personal funds...gonna be awhile unless I find someone wanting to help a classroom teacher,lol. I will keep yall posted on how things are going...

 

Leroy

[zandische]

Lots of good information and suggestions. I am currently trying to acquire a cage that would house a medium/large bird as the first leg of our journey. As far as "classroom management" for the bird goes...that would take some getting used to. In past classes we have had several class pets and the kids did a good job respecting the animals. The door would be an issue that I would be interested to see how the class decides to handle. I find if I let them "own" the idea they do a much better job of carrying out the task. From further research and suggestions on the board I am open to a conure or amazon parrot. With funds being an issue in education we are hoping that someone may donate a baby to our class. We will have the habitat waiting on the bird long before we acquire it at this rate but everything happens in due time. My wife and I have looked at conures and a few amazons in a pet store and she is excited about having one that comes home with me. I appreciate all the suggestions and comments and look forward to hearing what you have to say in the future.

 

Mr. S (what my kids call me)

 

Mr. S,

 

Please understand first that I do not mean to inflame you with my response here, and in the points I make below I only I wish to challenge you to fully consider this endeavor. I think that if you can do so, this could be an incredible and fun learning opportunity for both you and your class, and something we'd all love to read about. An African Grey (and most parrots, actually) is nothing like a class hamster, and has requirements above and beyond even a difficult to keep "pet." I'm glad you're willing to learn and accept feedback from our forum members. We've got a great group of people with a lot of experience to share!

 

It would perhaps be better to think of getting an African Grey or other parrot less in context of getting a "classroom pet" and more in terms of "adopting a child." The social and mental needs of a bird with the intelligence of a 5 year old are just that: that of a 5 year old child. They are also just as ornery and have a similar (and often lower) attention span. Do you have children, Mr. S? Do you have the energy for and would you feel comfortable bringing a 5 year old to hang out in your class all day? That's essentially what you're getting into!

 

I didn't catch what subject you teach, but you might consider reading "Alex & Me" by Dr. Irene Pepperburg - either on your own or with your students before going down this road. The book provides great insight into an animal that was intended to be a "research project" and quickly became so much more than that. Alex was a pretty social and interactive bird, but the point to remember about him is that he had researchers interacting with him 8-14 hours a day, and their entire purpose was to find ways to interact with him. In your class setting, your primary objective relates to a 5th grade curriculum and teaching your human students, not your parrot. (Although incorporating the parrot into the lesson structure would be an interesting idea to tackle.) Although Alex & Me offers lots of examples of Alex in a research setting, there are some important points about how complex Greys are, how much attention and mental stimulation they need, and how difficult it really is to care for them properly. What was particularly memorable about this book for me was not that Alex was so gifted but that Dr. Pepperburg tried so hard to maintain a professional distance with Alex so as not to invalidate her work, and in the end, Alex's loss was so much more staggering for her because she had never truly allowed herself to love him in the way that he had loved her. Which is incredible, because we're talking about love here, with a parrot. To put that in the best possible context, the world's most intelligent parrot's last words to his person were simply "You be good. I love you." That speaks volumes to the kind of bond these creatures can form with us, the intelligence they posess, and the responsibility we must own when we bring them into our lives.

 

So, having said all that, here are some suggestions:

 

- Have a well-laid out plan in place for how you intend for students to interact with the bird (such as handling it and talking to it) that protects both the bird and the student. You need to always be in complete control of interactions and "educate" your students on proper handling techniques.

- Does anyone have access to the bird when you aren't in the classroom, such as at lunch, bathroom breaks or in between class periods? Is the classroom locked and/or can you take the bird with you when you leave? (Prevents theft, unsupervised handling, accidental injury to either the bird or a person, or the potential for someone to let the bird outside.)

- Consider inviting the administrator(s) of your rescue to talk to the students and teach them about the Grey and his needs.

- How will you and others react when the bird: screams, bites, flies, wanders off the cage, chews up a schoolbook etc.

- How often will the bird be out during the day?

- Will the bird be flighted or clipped?

- What happens if the bird gets injured? Do you have a first aid kit and veterninarian close by? Will you be able to leave your students to take the bird to the vet and if not, who will?

- Could it impact your job and/or your future livlihood if a student is injured by your parrot? (Common parrot injuries include minor scratches, lacerations to fingers, hands, arms and face from untrimmed claws or a beak, and more seriously, severed tendons, scarring or facial/ear/eye injuries.)

- Consider how you will deal with your grey when it acts out (like suddenly screaming in the middle of a test).

- There are differences between older & younger greys that you should be aware of. A young or baby grey will want to be with you 24/7 whereas an older grey may be much more mellow (or sometimes not.) Rescued/older greys may have learned words, phrases, sounds or behaviors that you, other school staff or parents may not feel are appropriate for a 5th grade class. Younger birds may not seem as "interesting" to the class because they haven't learned to talk yet and there's no guarantee they ever will. Younger birds are often less well-behaved and needy because they haven't learned their lifeskills yet; older birds may pick things up easier, but may also be a lot more ornery.

- I would also suggest you keep your Grey at home for six months or so to get used to each other, form a bond, and establish a safe environment (particularly if you get a baby). During that time, work on taking the bird for short car rides (perhaps to the pet store?) to get him used to riding in a car and meeting new people. That way it will be much less stressful for the bird when you eventually bring him into a class of children who all want to touch him.

- Consider bringing the bird to class only once or twice a week until your students and the bird are used to each other and you have a better feel for how well they'll interact.

- Find ways to make it fun for the bird to come to class with you - give him special favorite toys on class days, lots of praise and attention, sing/play a favorite song, give him special "class-only" treats. Birds like routine, so consider developing a game to play with the grey and the first class of the day as a "reward", which creates a fun routine he can look forward to. It also creates a positive image in the bird's mind of the classroom and why he wants to go there.

- Teach the bird as well as the students! Birds learn amazingly fast. Use the bird's learning ability to inspire your students to work harder, and make your bird happy in the process.

- Read as many books as you can on African Grey care and parrot behavior. They are invaluable in helping you learn about your grey.

- Create a blog so all of us, your students and the world can follow along with you!

 

One last thing: money is only the beginning and not nearly the end. On average, expect to spend anywhere between $50- $100 per month on your bird. (That covers food and toy costs.) Expect to pay $60-$80 for a yearly vet visit, and be prepared to spend more if your vet needs to do labwork. (Although as a teacher, you might be able to bribe your students to bring him toys and treats! Or maybe let them know that they can bribe you with toys and treats for your bird. Either way works! )

[Jayd]

This is very good, thank you, I think the good teacher decided a while a go to go with a parrot other than a Grey. Please remember each one of us can write a essay about our birds, and each would be some what different...I feel this teacher will also do much more research than a general person in the market for a parrot would. Quote: Where do you live? I need to move there for the low costs you mentioned!!!LOL...In regards to Alex, He's our mentor......If any one whose interested in Amazons can get the chance to read Jonie Doss book, Amazing Amazons", please do so... She broke and made some new rules....http://www.parrothouse.com/jdoss.html http://www.parrothouse.com/amazingamazonsarticle.html I don't agree with all she believes in, but she did it and she did it well...Thanks Jayd

Edited September 22, 2010 by Jayd

[77railer]

Zandische - Thank you for your post. You raise several questions that I need to think through in order to handle them with success. I do want to let everyone know that I have been in contact with a lady who has a nanday conure that she is considering letting us adopt. Her husband is deployed and with work and kids she feels she is neglecting the bird. I have also been in contact with a breeder in my state who has agreed to significantly reduce the price of a baby yellow naped amazon. My wife and I have been discussing this project and she is excited about having a bird at home. I will continue to update as things unfold. Please wish us luck...

 

Mr. S

[Jayd]

http://www.google.com/search?q=naday+conure&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&client=firefox#hl=en&client=firefox&hs=R5G&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&&sa=X&ei=Rn2ZTLuYF4_2tgPgweSpAw&ved=0CEkQBSgA&q=nanday+conure&spell=1&fp=6f32b8af52b7e0b8

[GoDiego]

If any one whose interested in Amazons can get the chance to read Jonie Doss book, Amazing Amazons", please do so... She broke and made some new rules....http://www.parrothouse.com/jdoss.html http://www.parrothouse.com/amazingamazonsarticle.html I don't agree with all she believes in, but she did it and she did it well...

 

I have also read this book and it gives you a great insight into an Amazons behaviour and the species. Like Jayd, some of it I also did not really agree with but the majority was definitely worth reading.

[Georgiesmum]

The conures are known to be very noisy i had a jenday before and i had to find him a new home as his screams were so high pitched weather he was in or out of the cage only time to stopped was when he was eating!! Not sure if nandays are known to be as loud but i would check it out as kids would not be able to concentrate on school work. I know all parrots are loud but this was piercing.

[Karcar]

Nandays are very very loud and the one my mother in law had was forever nippy not matter how much attention he got. As a matter of fact he was down right nasty.

Not a good choice for classroom in my opinion. A blue crown conure, or a half moon, would in my opinion be a better conure choice.

Karen