Murphy's biting everybody but me?

[reggieroo]

We seem to be having a biting issue with Murphy (He's now 8 months old) which as developed. He's been biting Kate for a good few weeks now & last night she got one hell of a bite, I could see the bite mark in her flesh & it drew blood, now it's red & swollen.

 

We also had a guest stay with us last week & although Murphy really seemed to like him he would do the same thing as he does to Kate.

 

What he does is fly down for a tickle while they are sat on the sofa, puts his head down for tickles then halfway though he just bites really hard then puts his head back down for more tickles.

 

Sometimes she goes to him on his stand & he looks all sweet, he solicits for a tickle then bites.

 

Thing is he never does this to me, very rarely even flies down for tickles to me, only to get my toes sometimes :eek:

[Jane08]

Oh no they have been taken in by the bluff of wanting a scratch. This is very common and I am sure we have all been through it until we got wise to the body language. The key is to watch the eyes and see what the feathers are doing. The eyes will be dilated and the nape and back feathers will be raised, but not the head feathers. This is a very hard one to distinguish as they come up to you with the head lowered and you think oh how cute and go to scratch them and then bam bite. They are masters at it. I suggest you really watch the body language next time and if you see this don't touch him, he is pulling a bluff. I have always found the key is to watch the eyes they tell you everything.

 

Rangi does it to my BF, he walks up to him lowers his head and actually touches my BF hand with his head waiting for a scratch. My BF then goes to Rangi I am not falling for that one as we can see by the eyes that he is pulling the bluff.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Jane08

[Shades Of Grey]

Oh no they have been taken in by the bluff of wanting a scratch. This is very common and I am sure we have all been through it until we got wise to the body language. The key is to watch the eyes and see what the feathers are doing. The eyes will be dilated and the nape and back feathers will be raised, but not the head feathers. This is a very hard one to distinguish as they come up to you with the head lowered and you think oh how cute and go to scratch them and then bam bite. They are masters at it. I suggest you really watch the body language next time and if you see this don't touch him, he is pulling a bluff.

 

I was going to post the very same thing but I doubted my own advice since I am new to greys. Good to know that I actually know something about grey behavior LOL. I always look at where Tui's eyes are when he puts his head down for a scratch. If he is looking up then he is bluffing me, little stinker

[danmcq]

Yup, common to Greys and I get a bite when I fall for it as well....most the time.

[Dave007]

If your bird is flying over to sit and get a rub or if it's on a cage looking to get a rub or it's in a cage looking to get a rub, the best way to give that rub/tickle/scritch/scratch is to use your finger and never touch the skin, just the feathers. It's harder to do this then touching the skin because a person who's rubbing but not touching the skin will think he/she is not penetrating and the person only rubs through the feathers won't even think he/she is even touching the bird. I say this because birds actually like their feathers touched but not the skin. Rub the skin and you'll never know what was touched which made the bird bite. Touching only the feathers and not the skin takes practice and even more so, it requires that a person look at where they're rubbing.

Touching the skin will many times cause a bird to instantly bite and almost immediately put it's head down so that the rubbing can continue.

 

This type of biting is even more pronounced when a bird is molting and it's rubbed the wrong way or direction--too close to the skin or wrong direction and WHAM, the bite happens.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Dave007

[judygram]

Yep the old sucker punch but Josey doesn't play that game but Dave has the right idea to not touch the skin but just the feathers for they allow the touch to travel down the shaft to the skin and that is all the touching they really want anyways.

[Luvparrots]

Ana Grey loves her scratches and asks for them all the time. Sometimes if I am not paying attention, I rub the wrong way on her feathers and she will give me a nip. This can happen also if I don't pay attention to the new pin feathers coming in. She reminds me that, hey!!! that's uncomfortable!!!

[reggieroo]

Maybe I'm the only one who gives good tickles then......lol

 

On a serious note I do touch the skin sometimes as he seems to like you to get right in there, almost like a neck massage. I wonder what Kate is doing wrong to get bit then as I never get bit?

 

I'm going to observe more closely next time she gives tickles & watch to see if I can determine whats maybe causing it. Most often I'm sat watching TV & all I hear is "ouch, naughty" I look round & Kate's looking very annoyed telling me Murphy has bit her again. I tell her not to react as he might enjoy the reaction but I guess she finds it difficult as it's human nature to react to something like a bite.

 

I know the game you guys are talking about, my friend used to have a grey that always used to say "give us a tickle" head would go down then wham! Used to do it to me all the time but I kept on falling for that sweet little voice asking for tickles.

Edited August 19, 2010 by reggieroo

[danmcq]

Two different scenarios, the love muffin like my wife that Dayo never pulls the fake out on while she deep scratches to the skin and me the guy he plays with like a close friend you box a few rounds with, shake hands, crack a beer open and laugh about how you took a sucker punch again.

 

I am going to try Daves comment on just touching the feathers only instead of trying to scratch him like I do my dogs.....

[reggieroo]

Hey Dan, sounds the other way round here then with Murphy. I can give him the deep scratches to the skin while even kissing him on the head etc, I can do anything with him without fear of being bitten.

 

I'll get Kate to also try Dave's comments on the tickles just on the feathers & see if it make a difference.

 

I also wonder if they sense confidence in people you know like dogs know when your scared of them etc. I know that Kate is afraid of being bitten & so are guests when they come over & they always seem to be the ones who get bitten. It was the same with my Amazon, me & my Mum where the only people who didn't get scared or mind being bitten & yet we never got a bit except when we first got him of course.

Edited August 20, 2010 by reggieroo

[Dave007]

Yes, they can sense when a person is leery/nervous. Although a person doesn't realize it, the things that are being done to a bird who is leery of them will sometimes cause a bird to bite. A person just doesn't act the same when that person is very wary of what the bird may do, and the person doesn't realize that they're acting differently. Just about anyone here will tell you that their bird can get a bit nippy when nervous or leery or extra aware of things.

A bit of advice. Simply put the bird in a cage when you have people over. The bird feels safest in that cage and experimenting with who the bird likes or dislikes doesn't do the bird any good especially when those people are not bird people.

[Elvenking]

Yes, they can sense when a person is leery/nervous. Although a person doesn't realize it, the things that are being done to a bird who is leery of them will sometimes cause a bird to bite. A person just doesn't act the same when that person is very wary of what the bird may do, and the person doesn't realize that they're acting differently. Just about anyone here will tell you that their bird can get a bit nippy when nervous or leery or extra aware of things.

A bit of advice. Simply put the bird in a cage when you have people over. The bird feels safest in that cage and experimenting with who the bird likes or dislikes doesn't do the bird any good especially when those people are not bird people.

 

After asking around, that seems to be the best advice Dave. Thanks again for the concise summation of the topic.

[pearllyn]

We went through the same thing with Alfie. She went through a phase where she was challenging me too on every little thing and the bites were hard. We got passed it though, going on advice from here. And I know it's easier said than done but not reacting to the bite did help, as did letting her know it was not acceptable. Murphy is just young and will get passed this phase too most likely.

[Acappella]

I would tell Kate to give up on the scratches for a while and instead keep a foot toy that Murphy likes, and a couple treats, with her when she sits down and he flies over. That way her interactions with him will be positive and she'll start to relax. End every interaction while it's going well so everyone is happy. If she does give scratches, only do it for a second or two, before he has a chance to turn, stop, and then praise the heck out of him, give him a treat. That way you build on success, and he'll want more. Also, the advice about watching those eyes is priceless. Teach Kate about pinning and how to read Murphy and most, if not all, of those bites can be avoided.

[reggieroo]

Right, the biting issue has got worse with Murphy now biting people really hard. Kate won't have anything to do with him anymore as she is now scared to death of him. I'm the only person that can handle him.

 

I'm wondering if it's the fight or flight thing going on with him. The reason is if I ask him to step up he most often flies off but if somebody else asks, he bites hard!

 

I also wondered if it was an issue with him not liking women as much because he also bit my Mum hard but then another day he also bit my Friend Ady who is male so don't think it's that. The only other person who he hasn't bitten yet apart from me is my Dad. My Dad was his caregiver when I was on holiday, so the only people he doesn't bite so far is me & my Dad both his care givers.

 

At least he doesn't bite the hand that feeds but seriously this is a problem we need to overcome!

[Elvenking]

I can only speak to what I have read around on the forums. The one thing I think I can say is that I think that everyone but you should just keep a distance from him for now. Maybe others could just try to talk to him nicely but not approach him. Maybe they could chance giving him a little treat and then just back off to let him enjoy it. I live alone but now frequently have visitors but no one that lives with me. When someone does come over I ask that they just not attempt to pick up or touch the bird unless I am helping. I am the only one who can provide the comfort under which he knows that things are going to be okay in these situations. He will then, when feeling up to it...actually land on the shoulders of my guests and get a closer look when he feels he can. If you are his chosen one then be there for him as often as you can for iffy situations and just back him up all the way. That is what I do for Issac.

 

Murphy is not actually seeking out these people and actively biting them is he. This is more of a response to being approached. If that is the case...then he just needs some time and space. Baby steps all the way on that one is just what I think. Just one opinion here.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Elvenking

[reggieroo]

I can only speak to what I have read around on the forums. The one thing I think I can say is that I think that everyone but you should just keep a distance from him for now. Maybe others could just try to talk to him nicely but not approach him. Maybe they could chance giving him a little treat and then just back off to let him enjoy it. I live alone but now frequently have visitors but no one that lives with me. When someone does come over I ask that they just not attempt to pick up or touch the bird unless I am helping. I am the only one who can provide the comfort under which he knows that things are going to be okay in these situations. He will then, when feeling up to it...actually land on the shoulders of my guests and get a closer look when he feels he can. If you are his chosen one then be there for him as often as you can for iffy situations and just back him up all the way. That is what I do for Issac.

 

Murphy is not actually seeking out these people and actively biting them is he. This is more of a response to being approached. If that is the case...then he just needs some time and space. Baby steps all the way on that one is just what I think. Just one opinion here.

 

Well with Kate he is actually flying down to her & offering his head for tickles & then...............bam! He gives her a hard bite! So after this happening on more than one occasion she refuses to handle him or have him on her. I have tried to have her ask him to step up but he just lunges at her finger, now I can't get her to try at all. She has washed her hands of him totally unfortunately.

 

I'm quite gutted to be honest as I wanted Kate to play a part in bringing Murphy up, but now I fear she really dislikes him!

[Elvenking]

I can understand how this would make you feel. It was always one of my bigger fears that Issac would not get along with anyone but me. I know that it is possible for Murphy to come around, but I doubt it's going to be anything that will happen quickly. I would just let it all die down for now, no more attempts for quite sometime. You want to avoid the situation for now. Both Kate and Murphy stand a chance of coming around again sometime. You just don't want to stress and\or force the situation into rightness if you know what I mean. I will think on it a bit more...but that is the advice I ahve to offer for now.

[danmcq]

Well with Kate he is actually flying down to her & offering his head for tickles & then...............bam! He gives her a hard bite! So after this happening on more than one occasion she refuses to handle him or have him on her. I have tried to have her ask him to step up but he just lunges at her finger, now I can't get her to try at all. She has washed her hands of him totally unfortunately.I'm quite gutted to be honest as I wanted Kate to play a part in bringing Murphy up, but now I fear she really dislikes him!

 

One of the realities of a grey as they grow older month by month and year by year, is the preference of one person normally being the cuddle muffin and the other has limited contact previleges.

 

This is true in our house as well. I wanted Dayo and bought him. But, as he aged from month to month it became very apparent by 6 months old that my wife was his selected cuddle muffin. I took bites then and still do now at times, but once you learn all the body langauge and learn their sucker punch moves, like bend down for a scartch and then nail you when you try, you learn what you can and cannot do with them.

 

If you significant other hates him, it is truly sad. Perhaps a limited expected frinedship can be continued. The only limiting factor to that, is if she is fearful of him, he can sense it.

 

My grandchildren all fear Dayo due to the bite he COULD inflict, not that he actaully ever has. Guests that come over will interact with him if they feel comfortable to do so and those that fear a nip (never blood letting to them) just talk to him sweetly and interact with him from a distance.

 

It is very rare for a Grey to be freindly like a puppy dog with everyone. It's is just not how they are wired in the wild intincts that still exist. They do not have one domesticated cell in their body. I truly hope your and your household can learn to interact with him on the levels he allows and come to enjoy it.

[reggieroo]

Well I think Kate does fear him, you can almost smell the fear when she trys to interact with him. What I have noticed tonight is he puffs himself up when Kate goes to tickle him. I had him on my hand & walked in to see Kate, I asked her to tickle him & he puffed himself up just as she touched him, Kate then backed away.

 

I can literally do what ever I want with him & he never bites me (I'll get bit now I've said that!), I can flip him on his back & touch his feet, tickle his belly & he's fine with it.

 

It will probably end up just me handling him & Kate just having a verbal friendship with him for the time being. I'm sure once he starts talking away she won't be able to resist chatting with him.

[Jane08]

If she is scared then don't put her in those positions and ask her to touch Murphy. For the moment she should not be touching him at all until she is fully confident with it. They can smell fear a mile off and they play on that fear as well. It's like a game for them.

 

Our female Kea was exactly the same with me and I was scared to death of her and hated her actually. I then had to change my attitude first and realise it's not Kea's fault it's me. So I decided to find something that Kea and I could do together that we were both comfortable with. I always asked my BF to leave us alone so we could have special time together without him around. She loved learning new stuff and doing tricks, so I started at the beginning and taught her to step up on my hand using treats. The first thing I did was just give her treats and ask for nothing in return and then moved on from there. Anyway she thrived and our trick training took off all at Kea's own pace. We did this for maybe 10min a day. This was how I built a relationship with her and I became more confident in handling her. Kea also became happier being in my company and stopped biting me. I must admit this did take me about a year, but it was well worth it considering how long she will be in my life.

 

Never ever did I touch her without being 100% sure she was ok with this. Now I can give her head rubs but only at certain times and only on her terms. Everything I do with Kea is on her terms, even when I ask her to step up I always ask her first and watch the signals she gives me. My BF has a totally different relationship with her and can do anything with her just like you can with Murphy. Still I love the things Kea and I do together, they are our special times. I also know Kea loves those times as well as she usually asks me for a kiss and I lightly touch her beak with my lips and she lets out this little scream of joy. Never ever in a millon years did I think that we would progress to that stage.

[pearllyn]

Well with Kate he is actually flying down to her & offering his head for tickles & then...............bam! He gives her a hard bite!

Alfie did this with me for a while too. If it's any consolation to you, she doesn't now - I very rarely get bites from her and when I do, I can see them coming a mile off so it's my own fault for persisting. When this biting started with Alfie, it was really bad, she meant it and drew blood every time - I posted about it when it happened and was very disheartened and upset by it. I took advise from members here and started to give her a timeout in her travel cage. I must stress though that this is not something I did lightly, and the timeouts were only for maybe five minutes at a time, and ONLY ever for hard biting, NEVER EVER for anything else. It nipped it in the bud, Alfie learned very quickly that biting led to her being on her own and she has largely stopped it. David is still her favourite but the 3 of us get on very well together and I'm happy with the situation.

Murphy is still pretty young isn't he? He's pushing boundaries to see who he can boss about, but hopefully you will find a way through it and come out the other end, a happy family.

[reggieroo]

Well at the moment Kate doesn't want any physical interaction with him so I'll leave her to come round on her own. I'll show her these posts, let her have a read & hopefully she will give it another shot when she feels more confident. Good idea about using the treats Jane, might be worth Kate starting like you did with just some treats to help build the relationship. Going to suggest that to Kate.

 

They are hard work these greys aren't they? You can read & read as much as you like about greys & their behaviour but when you have one they are way more complicated.

Just when you think you've cracked it they do something to make you think hang on a minute, what's it all about?

 

Some of you, who have had them for years probably know what I'm saying & possibly know greys & their behaviour inside out but I can see how that would take years & years of ownership. I'm not new to being a parrot daddy as I had an Amazon for 10 years but I feel greys are a different story altogether & you almost have to learn as a novice when it come to grey behaviour etc.

 

I'd just like to say thanks to everyone on here who has offered me help now & in the past, much appreciated..........many thanks!

[birdhouse]

Some of you, who have had them for years... possibly know greys & their behaviour inside out

 

I think the very most'est experienced & best'est grey owners are the ones who will quite confidently say they will never know what their grey is going to think up next. They are just like living with a human on many levels. Constant change is the only constant. That's what makes owning one such an amazing experience.

[danmcq]

I think the very most experienced & best'est grey owners are the ones who will quite confidently say they will never know what their grey is going to think up next. They are just like living with a human on many levels. Constant change is the only constant. That's what makes owning one such an amazing experience.

 

Boy did you get that right! I believe a Grey is one of the most complex and intelligent species of birds in relationship to thinking and speech cognitive abilities. AS they age, they observe and change their behavior. Sometimes they change it to get along better, to get what they want or a fun game like "Change-Up, I suckered you in again Hahahahahahahaha" and they feel a great sense of pride doing so as they strut away with a smug posture and body language.