Charlie had the hormone implant

[she]

The vet called me on Thursday and we had a good chat about the hormone implant.Although the vet offers no guarantee it will work he thinks it is worth a try. So on Friday afternoon I took Charlie to the vet surgery and he was given a short anasthetic and the implant inserted at the top of his back. He came round very fast and I was able to bring him home almost right away. It may take a couple of weeks before I notice any change in his plucking but I have noticed no adverse problems due to the procedure. He is happy,eating and talking as normal. I am also going to have a go at a herbal approach and start him on passion flower. I will provide a link to an artical I read and was impressed with. I will keep you all up to date on any progress or lack of it lol .

[she]

Here is the link on herbal treatments. Please let me know what you all think? http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww24eii.htm

[she]

[danmcq]

Oh Sheila I hope this works. You have gone to the farthest medical abilities and treatments to help Charlie.

 

In regards the herbal link and statements made there. I would take a very cautious approach and ask your vet. Some of the items noted as a "Treatment", such as Garlic raised a big red flag to me. It is poisonous to our Parrots and will kill them. Thus, this article was not apparently written by a person that had scientifically studied pet medicine or an avian vet.

 

I will say, the Aloe treatments seemed very interesting, but again, I would ask your vet. The internet is just so full of bad and sometimes dangerous information to our much loved critters, that it truly scares me. I advise anyone considering something they read on the internet (Other than from an Avian Vet website) to be very cautious and ask you vet before trying anything.

 

I know I'm preaching to the choir with you Sheila, but added this comment for the benefit of other newbies that might also read this.

 

Charlies photos of the plucked areas truly display just how severe he is plucking in those areas. I hope the hormone implants work for you and your vet.

[judygram]

I am so glad to hear the procedure went well and Charlie seems none the worse for it but I have to echo Dan on the herbal treatments, do ask your vet about it but in the meantime let the implant have a chance to work for it may do the trick and if you try the herbal treatment at the same time you won't know which one worked for Charlie. I truely hope this does work for Charlie for he is really doing a job on himself it appears from the pics.

[she]

Thank you Dan and Judy. I agree with you both. I think when you are so desperate to help you tend to overlook the obvious. I needed the reminders and I appreciate them. That was just what I needed. I will give the implants a few weeks and then make another appointment. I forgot to say that the vet also sent cultures away to check his original infection has cleared.

[Luvparrots]

I hope the implants help Charlie, Sheila. As the parront of a chronic plucker I do feel your pain for Charlie. My Sully after a year and oodles of Aloe Vera misting is finally coming around and letting feathers begin to grow in on his back and chest. My best wishes and prayers for Charlie!!

[Jayd]

With all hopes to you. Spock and Freddy, as you might know, have feather disorders, Freddy's is severe. Spock and Freddy's vets put them on Chamomile, both have been on it since Jan, both have shown great improvements, we give it to them as a Tea. As the others have said "ASK YOUR VET!!!"....

Thanks

Jayd

 

http://www.avianweb.com/homeremedies2.html

 

From the book "Holistic Care for Birds - A Manual of Wellness and Healing" by David McCluggage, DVM and Pamela Leis Hidgon:

 

"Camomilla

 

Camomilla is one of our remedies for feather pluckers. (Actually, there are more than 50 remedies that might work.) It is also used for anger and irritability that have been suppressed for a long time. Macaws might fit this pattern, as do many Amazon Parrots. Chamomilla soothes and calms. It is often most effective at very low potencies to start with (perhaps 6X). If it is successful, you can increase the potency dramatically over time."

[tarm]

If you can recall what drug is in the implant they are using in Charlie?

[she]

Tarm. The implant is called suplolorin.I had a bad night with him last night.He was so anxious and un settled.I was quite upset but today he seems a lot calmer . I have just rang the vet to see if the results of the feather cultures are back but they have not arrived yet.The implant disolves after a few months . I cant find a lot on it at all on the internet and vertually nothing on it being used on birds. The vet has used it on many animals including greys with some success but it is just a waiting game.

[tarm]

Ok I will dig and see what I can find out for you and others on it. I am super super leery of implants as I have seen very few that used drugs that did not have a long slew of bad side effects. In humans as we all know its mainly a birth control avenue as well as for long term treatment for certain diseases. I know all you want is a healthy bird and if this works it could well be worth any possible risk that make come with it. My main concern is that is was a corticosteroid or hormone as these things really do a number on all animals endocrine systems and it can take a long time for them to get back into wack. But I have no idea what kind of drug that is in that implant. Let me see what I can find out. Thanks for taking the time to get me the info. I really hope and pray your feathered challenged friend gets better soon.

[tarm]

Ok I knew it its a contraceptive. It can be used in males as well where it acts as a chemical castration. Its main use is in dogs and cats as a option to neutering and spading. The action is said to work for 6 months but findings have shown 18-24 months. This is again becasue of the havoc it causes to our gonotropin production and associated hormones. It actually is being used in the avian medicine but not so much for plucking but as a way to correct hyper egg laying and the associated behavior. It seems it is being used by a somewhat popular avian vet Neil Forbes in the UK in Swindon IIRC. Along with egg laying it has also shown promise in helping correct "frustrated breeder behavior" particularly with hand reared birds trying to mate with their owners. It is used to correct these behaviors. This also maybe the key to how it may be able to help feather plucking. Especially if the root cause is what is basically a neurotic behavioral issue that has some hormonal connection. Suprelorin is a chemical switch (Gonadotrophin agonist) that hopefully with its use turns this behavior off. The implant works for 18 - 24 months. Hopefully once this behavior is broken if it works it will not return as the drug slowly dissipates from the system. As far as long term on going use the studies were mainly done on dogs and cats and no negative side effects were noted after 8 years of constant use so that is at least some good news on that front.

 

In its use for both the persistent egg lay and frustrated breeder issues it has been said to be highly successful by the reports from the two vets that had reported its use. I can take a few weeks for it to start to have a noticeable effect in those uses. Another similar drug is Deslorelin you may see mentioned in researching Suprelorin.

 

Ok just did a bit more digging and I found some posts about it being used for a egg laying issue but also hormonal plucking. It worked very well for that. So the good and bad of the whole thing is if the plucking has a hormonal component it show have a very good chance of helping. If not then it likely will not.

 

Another drug that is in the same action family that is also being used and you may see is Lupron (leuprorelin acetate).

 

I went and did some digging on hormonal feather plucking ande under it these drugs and indeed openly recommended:

 

"Many parrots pluck their chest area as they mature and get into breeding condition. Another typical plucking patterns for hormonal birds may be plucking between their legs.

 

Hope this was of some help and at least eases your mind about its use for your bird. I hope it does turn out that this works.

 

Tim

 

One bird plucked his chest when he was forced to watch a breeding pair of the same species that were temporarily placed into his room. As soon as the pair was relocated, the plucking stopped.

 

In some cases, a vet may prescribe Lupron shots to reduce hormonal behavior. The drug Lupron turns off sexual hormones. Some bird owners report that hormonal plucking started immediately after administration of this drug and never started again. It works if the plucking is caused by hormonal frustration.

 

However, vets first recommend that pet owners make environmental changes to reduce sexual triggers, such as removing mirrors or nest boxes and to prevent hormonal stimulation such as petting that induces this behavior, and altering the light cycle to mimic winter sunlight. If all these changes fail than drug therapy may be warranted. Drug therapy is most effective in females but has also shown effectiveness in males."

 

As I understand it: Suprelorin, Deslorelin, Lupron (leuprorelin acetate) are Gonadotrophin agonists. They have an inhibitory effect on the pituitary that should reduce and or temporarily eliminate the hormones FSH and LH being produced and released. This drug has been used in birds for chronic egg laying, hormonal aggression and feather picking. Again, this is not a perfect drug and certainly not for all situations.

 

If it turns out to be hormonal here is some good info and also how to reduce triggers I found while searching this http://www.avianweb.com/sexualbehaviorinbirds.html

 

 

Some more good news was a number of the posts I saw it mentioned being used and being successful where on African Greys.

[Janfromboone]

Wishing you luck. It is a frustrating problem.

[she]

Tarm Thank you so much for the information.my vet had mentioned most of what you found.He also mentioned,the vet you named and said he has had good results. It is a case of fingers crossed in charlies case. I have just had his culture results back and the initial infection of his feather folicals has cleared which is brilliant.I do realise I have no guarantee using this method but as we have been fighting this battle since January It is worth a try. Thank you every one for your help and support over the months,I know I can count on my friends here xxx. I will keep you all up to date.

[Jayd]

Wonderful Parront you are.....................

[tarm]

Best of luck to you and Charlies.

[pearllyn]

How is Charlie doing now Sheila, it's been a wee while since the implant?

[she]

Charlie is doing really well. The first week or so I could not see any change at all and then if anything an increase in his plucking and he was very agitated. The last few days have Been wonderful. He seems to be a lot more settled and his plucking is vertually nil. He looks lime a right scruff and has loads of pins coming through. I M a lot happier about him at the moment. But it is very early days. Thanks everyone for your help and support. I will keep you all up to date.

[tarm]

You know the couple days were Charlie was super agitated could have not been so much from adjusting to the meds but the fact that he had a ton of pins all starting thru the surface of his skin. That had to make his skin sensitive. Either way glad he seems to be doing well right now and feathers are coming back in.

[she]

Yes I agree. The vet has given him antihistamines to help with the pins. The other week he was pulling them out as soon as he could grip them but only the odd one now. I am also putting him to bed a bit earlier and trying a bit of clicker training with him. Clicking after he has left the feathers alone after plucking and giving a treat. That's not going too well though lol.