What is it about Greys and flying away?

[FredGrey]

OK - I've been reading about greys and their great cognitive ability for some time now. I've researched diet and I've look at many other aspects of grey behaviour but I am still confused about one major thing.

 

The recent issue with Emma flying away also got me thinking.

 

Over the years I've had parrots escape occasionally but I've always retrieved them from within a block or so of where I live. I believe in flighted birds and, over the years, it is pretty much a given that at some point in time a parrot will fly out the door. My birds have always stayed within a short distance of home, though and, because I work on what I've recently learned is "recall training", they come back to me when I call.

 

This doesn't seem to be the case with Greys from all the threads I've read here and on other boards. One Youtube video says a lot:

 

Is it true that it is harder to recall a grey if they escape?

 

Because I strongly believe in flighted parrots I think what I learn about this subject will strongly impact my decision on whether or not to get a grey.

 

Fred

[Dave007]

All parrots are wild animals and will remain so until they die. It doesn't matter whether they're kept as pets or not. If a parrot gets away, it'll usually keep on going until it has to land. As soon as he/she is strong enough, it continues it's journey. Where to? That can't be answered. They'll go anywhere they want and having the desire to come home doesn't exist once that wild nature of the bird kicks in which is usually instant. Like any other wild bird, it'll find places to go to and it'll instinctively know how to avoid human contact. That's the nature of all wild birds, softbilled or hookbilled. Many people do different things to lessen the chance that the bird will never be permanently lost. Unfortunately, the majority of times those things don't work well. Wing clipping, microchipping, special banding etc. The reason that many of these things don't work is because

1--the bird is never recovered

2--the bird is recovered but people don't make any effort whatsoever in trying to find the owner. This doesn't apply to everyone or every bird but lets put it this way---it's major news when a lost bird is actually recovered and the people who were involved in finding the bird DID make a concerted effort to seach out and find the owners so that the bird can be returned

Is a parrot (especially a pet parrot) a wild bird?

Look outside and watch all of the wild birds and watch their habits such as disappearing to nap during the day, acting very vocal in the morning before eating, listening to them in the early evening just before they finally retire for the night.

You'll see that your parrot who's in the house and who has never been out of the house is doing the same things at approx the same time everyday just like the outside wild birds.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Dave007

[FredGrey]

All parrots are wild animals and will remain so until they die.

Interesting. I've read elsewhere that parrots, especially the larger ones, develop long term relationships with people and will recognize and come to their previous owners many years after they had separated. I am wondering if there is a problem with my definition of wild vs tame...

 

I am in total agreement that wing clipping and microchiping or banding are not the answers to prevention or recovery of an escaped parrot. From what I've read wing clipped parrots can still fly very well if needed (spooked) and I agree that both microchipping and banding depend a lot on the people that find the bird. This being said I am/was a great believer in getting a bird to come when called. This has allowed me to recover birds from nearby trees and hedges in the past (budgies and cockatiels). I would simply put out a finger and call their name and they would fly to me from wherever they were.

 

If a grey flys 6Km on a first flight "out the door" then it makes it that much harder to recover the bird when it escapes. I had no idea that they were such powerful flyers! In my experience a bird that was kept in the home and only flew room-to-room did not have the capability to fly very far on its first flight...

 

Thanks for the response!

[Talon]

I am a strong believer in not trying to teach recall training. Why? Because it scare the bee gee bers out of me..... I couldn't bear with the thought of losing my birds, so I protect them from ANY chance I can of losing them. I have read too many stories of birds escaping or not returning and it frightens me to death. How's that for a closed mind....

[Luvparrots]

My biggest fear is my sweet Ana Grey flying out the door and getting lost. She and I are very close, she comes to me when I call her and she loves to be in the same room as me. She and I are companions. But not for one second do I believe that she would not fly out the door on the first chance she got. How do I know this because I see her always watching the door when I or anyone else goes in and out. She is always waiting for that one opportunity and I know in my heart of hearts that she would be out the door in a flash. And I accept this. She wants to be free to fly as she is meant to fly. But I also know that once she stopped flying and got hungry she would wonder where I was and why I didn't come get her and feed her. Frankly I don't care if she flies 100 feet or two miles as her parront I will try to find her. The microchipping is just one more chance I have to get her back and I will do anything to get her back. It doesn't matter if I have her in a harness or with her anklet and jesse, she always tries to fly off until she knows she cannot. She is an animal just like us and we too love our freedom!!! I can look in the newspaper right now or on the internet and see ads from people desperate to find the birds, some cockatiels some conures, some greys, some macaws. They all try to fly as far away as they can without thought about tomorrow and where their next meal will come from. The Lucky ones get found and returned. I can only hope that good and loving animal lovers will find my Ana Grey if she is lost and try to find me. Vet offices, animal control, rescues will check an animal to see if it has a chip. It is free to have them checked. So choose the parrot species you love if you are inclined to became a parront.

Edited June 14, 2010 by luvparrots

[she]

Charlie will fly to me when I call him IN THE HOUSE. I doubt very much the same would happen if god forbid the unthinkable happened and he flew out a door. I can see how some people may be lulled into a false sence of security and think their bird would come back if escaped. The bird for a start would be confused,disorientated and scared.A pet bird can have a very hard time if it gets free.

[FredGrey]

Thanks sooo much for the replies! I knew greys were different but I had no idea how different...

 

I am a strong believer in not trying to teach recall training.

But is your bird flighted? Does he/she come to you in the home?

 

I understand that recall training involves training outside and this is scary to me too. It makes sense to me to teach a parrot to come to you even if only indoors. This way if the worst does happen then there is a fighting chance to recover your bird *if* it escapes. At least that's what I've done with my birds in the past and then they've come to me if they've escaped outside.

 

But it sounds to me that I've got a lot more research to do!!

 

As for microchipping and banding - yes - if it increases your chances of recovery even by a fractional percentage then it is worth it... very true. Thanks for that luvparrots!

Edited June 14, 2010 by FredGrey

[lovethatgrey]

I would like to confirm that yes, Emma was found 6 kms away from my home. I personally doubt that she flew that distance without stopping here and there along the way.

I believe that Greys are very strong fliers if given the chance to develop their muscles. In Emma's case she also has a VERY good diet, lots of flytime and lots of gyms to climb on. She has always been very active at home. With that said, I am equally stunned that she was found so far away and in that particular direction. When I was searching for her, I was convinced that she was much closer to my home. She had crossed many highways and tall buildings. Both nights and both morning were quite quite CHILLY and there was a lot of rain on the first day. Emma is also well socialized, has been well treated all of her life and is not fearful of very much.

When she escaped that morning, she did not even have a chance to eat that day. I am very relieved that Emma became hungry and finally seeked out *good* humans for help, otherwise, who knows how far she would have flown.

I am also so happy with all of the help that I received during my stressful ordeal, Emma's disappearance was posted and crossposted ALL over the internet.

I am also so happy with all of the help that I received during my stressful ordeal, Emma's disappearance was posted and crossposted ALL over the internet. Lots of people from coast to coast were thinking and praying for her. I believe I found Emma due to a bit of luck and Massive divine intervention. It's a miracle.

Edited June 14, 2010 by lovethatgrey

[Talon]

Yes, my birds will come to me in my house when I call them. I did not teach that to them, they just seem to have realized that when I call their name loudly and tell them where I am, they will fly to me and I praise them. I suppose, you could say, they are trained....

[FredGrey]

Both nights and both morning were quite quite CHILLY and there was a lot of rain on the first day.

First off - I have to say how happy I am to hear that you recovered Emma. I read about your loss in several different places as well! As I've said before the parrot community, at least the community that is closely involved with their birds, seems very close-knit and it is a shame if anyone tries to divide such a community.

 

I've always felt that parrots are far more resilient to changes in temperature than we give them credit for. I've never worried about draughts and the like with my birds. It is sooo great to hear that she is back! She must have had a great adventure!!

 

when I call their name loudly and tell them where I am, they will fly to me and I praise them.

That's all I've ever done with my birds as well - but it has served me well in the past. I guess, should I decide to get a grey, I should be doubly careful about the environment and the chances for escape... I read somewhere, once... I kind-of forget where... But someone said something like, "after owning conures for a while I decide I would get a grey. After all, how different could they be?

 

Very. very. different".

 

It's stuck in my mind...

[danmcq]

I just want to say one thing about the thought of Greys being different in comparison to other parrots and flying away. It does not matter what species it is. If they get out, they will fly off. My conure jake once flew around 40 miles away over a 2 week period. The night he flew off there was a thunder storm and I suspect he just kept flying in terror. I got him back through a post I had made on craigslist. He had landed at a bird feeder in their back yard and one of their children walked up to the pretty bird and to their shock, stepped up for them.

 

Greys and each species of parrot have differences. But, one commonality they have with all birds, is they will fly away.

[Greywings]

danmaq is so right birds of every species have been lost this way not just Greys there are many stories of Amazons, Macaws , Cockatiels and Conures lost in the out of doors, just look on CL any day in a large city. I have also watched free flighted Greys skimming over the landscape with Macaws who are in the same training group all returning safely to hand. I could never do that as my fear would be Hawks taking them or loosing my beloved bird and not knowing the outcome.

[FredGrey]

My conure jake once flew around 40 miles away over a 2 week period.

Yes I've read that conures are "strong fliers" as well. Mine has not made it out the door and hopefully never will!

 

Thanks for the replies!

[dhorje]

One of my friend's Grey escaped twice but he returned on both occasions. How lucky!

His Monk Parakeet is free flying. The parrot is free to roam outdoor. He knows how to return home.

[Janfromboone]

I have wondered if in addition to recall training if orienting the bird to the outside of the house and the yard with frequent walks and letting them see the house they live in from all angles would help keep them oriented should they fly outside the house. It isn't surprising to me that Tui didn't come back. When the wind blew him away from an appartment building imagine what that building looked like to him when the wind blew him away from it. It looked like nothing he had ever seen before. If there is a familiarity to the trees and the yard and outside of the house then wouldn't they be more likely to stay close to what is familiar.

[zandische]

I'll add my experience to this thread. Perhaps it will help you or someone else, Fred.

 

Keeping a parrot flighted is a difficult decision. My first grey and I were extremely close in a way I have not found with any other creature. I wanted her to be flighted because it made her deliriously happy to fly around the house and my goal was for her to be able to live life as an independent, valued member of our household. Her ability to fly gave her the option of choosing when she wanted to be with us, challenging us to think about things her way, and allowed her to develop her decision-making skills to the point that she was an extremely outgoing, confident bird.

 

I worked with her on recall training. I could call her anywhere in the house and she would come to me. I hadn't started recalling her outside yet, but I took her outside often in the aviator harness and she was learning to get used to the outdoors. She had taken many car rides and loved the car. Also, we taught her to hone her flying abilities by providing challenges - narrow door openings, different-sized perches and unbalanced perches, etc - to the point that she was an extremely agile flyer indoors.

 

Her escape was a freak accident. A cat came on the back porch and spooked her on her playstand nearby; as she flew away in a panicked flight from the kitchen, my husband happened to come in through the front door at the same moment. Utilizing her agile flight skills, she folded her wings up and shot between his head and the door jamb - passing through a space barely bigger than 8 inches. He had failed to do the "bird check" before opening the door - that is, to open an inch or so and listen for the sound of beating wings.

 

We have never found her, despite spending countless hours, time and money searching all over the state and answering numerous prank, drunken or completely dead-end leads. We were able to help rescue 2 other greys, a parakeet and a cockatiel during our search which is somewhat heartening. It was the most painful loss I've ever experienced - not only because of the bond we shared, but because I was sick with the thought that she was scared, hurt, or caught by the kind of person who would not try to find her owner. Despite all the training she had and the bond we shared, when she flew out the door she did not come back.

 

We now have two young greys and we are trying to start again. These greys came already clipped; the breeder had clipped the first 7 feathers on each bird and it has been heartbreaking waiting for those feathers to grow back in. Our little girl has lost all of her tail feathers because she tries so hard to fly and then drops like a rock, landing on her rump and breaking the feathers off. Our boy is a great flier and will probably be extremely healthy when he gets his feathers - even with 7 clipped, Gryph has enough strength and stamina to fly/glide well over 40 feet. I have a feeling that when he can maneuver and get lift he will be a handful!

 

So, to the actual point of this long response - I have had parrots in both flighted/non-flighted situations and lost a flighted parrot who did not come back. I will allow my parrots to be flighted again, because I believe it improves their health and confidence. But it wasn't my parrot's fault that she didn't come back when she escaped; you can't expect a terrified bird to know her way home any more than a 3 year old left in a shopping mall, and especially when that lost bird still has most of her wild instincts.

 

The truth is that it was our fault for providing the opportunity for escape. Whenever we take a parrot into our home - regardless of whether we choose to clip or not, whether the parrot is a genius or whether they have been recall-trained - we must take responsibility for doing everything possible to keep the bird safe. It is so easy to see our parrots (especially Greys!!!) as people who can reason like people do, but we must understand that they are wild-at-heart animals with very basic instincts. We are their caretakers - soldiers even - standing guard for our fids. We must understand that if we cannot protect them, then we may have to face a situation like I did above.

 

That being said, the joy of sharing my life with a grey is unparalleled. I am, and always will be, a grey person.

Edited June 24, 2010 by zandische

[Janfromboone]

Zandische, That was so sad. It sounds as if your house was as safe as it could have been and yet your bird escaped. Very thought provoking post. Even though your bird was familiar with your yard and outside he flew away. Can any of us feel that our birds are safe if they are flighted.

[JJsHoney]

I can answer that question with a big fat NO!!, I live in the middle of nowhere, my closest landmark would be the highway, or a state park, the trees are gigantic and very dense I have always feared someone getting out more so since we moved to this house. There is very little people traffic maybe a few joggers but other than that they are far a few in between. I have lived in this town or its surrounding my entire life, and I honestly don't think if Rene or any of my fids were found that they would be returned to me, or taken care of properly.. I know of a small amount of people with parrots and and even smaller amount of them take care of them properly :mad:

[zandische]

Jan, honestly, I don't believe a house is ever truly safe. I don't believe a bird is ever truly safe no matter how paranoid the owner. Besides open doors/windows, there are a ton of other ways a bird can get hurt - from ingesting chemicals to inhaling bad fumes, to eating a poisonous plant etc. There's a lot you can do to reduce hazards, but when you consider how completely different a parrot's needs are from a human's, and how our lives just don't really mesh well, you start to realize how out of our element we are here. To be a truly good parrot owner I think you have to want to live and think like a bird, and not a people. Of course, then you get dubbed the crazy bird [lady/man]. ;p

 

For what it's worth, my husband and I have decided to screen in our front and back porch. We're hoping to get both of those done this summer. The front porch has a roof on it so we're going to build a basic enclosure. The back deck is just large enough to put up one of those screened canopies, which isn't fool proof but should be able to prevent a terrified bird from flying away. This will create a vestibule over each door so if a bird does get out, they have another barrier between them and the world. It's the same concept used in zoo enclosures. Plus, it will be a nice place to hang out when it's done

 

Zandische, That was so sad. It sounds as if your house was as safe as it could have been and yet your bird escaped. Very thought provoking post. Even though your bird was familiar with your yard and outside he flew away. Can any of us feel that our birds are safe if they are flighted.

[FredGrey]

Thank-you zandische for your well written and thought-provoking reply.

 

What I've been reading around the web and on several forums, is that clipping a parrot is not a solution for keeping a bird from escaping. If a parrot does escape the bird stands a far better chance of survival if they are left unclipped - which means that recovery is also more likely. I am not interested in entering a clipping debate - this is simply what I've been reading.

 

What is most interesting to me is how *far* away from home lost greys seem to be found. My birds have always been within a block or so when I've found them. I am amazed at the distance greys will travel when they escape.

 

Thanks again for the replies!

[lovethatgrey]

Yes, they do travel far. I would say that what helped to bring my Emma home to me was that she was found by *good people* who did the right thing.

[Janfromboone]

Wonderful though provoking post. I wish I could crawl into the mind of the grey for many reasons, this being one of them.

[dhorje]

I am training my Grey not to fly out of the house when the door is open. I am not sure if my method is correct or not.

I will harness her for this training. A flightline of 25-30ft is attached to the harness and is tied to the sofa. I will leave the door open for 30 mins to an hour.

I will do this 2-3X a week. So far she hasn't flown out of the house if none of us goes out. If one of us went out she would fly to our shoulder to follow us.

The places she would fly to while she was outside were the clothes rack and on our car. If we stayed indoor, she would not fly out.

My purpose of this training is to make her get used to seeing an open door without having the desire to fly out. We never know that one day we might accidentally leave the door open.

 

In one of this training, Cocoa was on the fridge in the kitchen and I had to go out of the house. On seeing me walking out of the house, she flew out trying to follow me but I was already in the street. She landed on the clothes rack. She did not follow me further. The line was long enough for her to fly to the gate but she stayed back.

 

I bird sit for a guy recently and he wasn't sure whether to keep his CAG flighted or not. He was afraid that his Grey would fly away if not clipped. So I showed him what Cocoa could do. I had the door open and placed Cocoa's stand right in front of the door. Cocoa just stood still on his stand. Of course, she was harnessed.

[danmcq]

Those are great training techniques! When Cocoa is older and experienced, you'll probably be able to take him unharnessed anywhere you wish, if you desired.

 

I have a friend with a grey he has had 17 years. He works construction and his greys rides on his shoulder everywhere he goes. When the grey wishes it will just fly to a good roosting spot like a tree, awning telephone wire etc. and kick back and watch as his owner works. It is an amazing thing to see such a well trained and laid back grey like this.

 

Your well on your way to that point when your grey is older and used to loud noises and surprises. From what my friend said, his grey is not alarmed by anything....

[dhorje]

I hope there will be a day Cocoa will be like your friend's grey. At this moment she gets spooked by the noise at construction site. I had to be careful when we walked past houses that were doing renovation.