Greetings!

[oblivion]

Hi, I'm Mark, but use 'oblivion' all over the internet, so there it is. Either name works fine for me. I even answer to "Hey Stupid!" on occasion.

 

Background: As a kid/teen, I always wanted a macaw. I read up on them, met a few (held my first Blue and Gold at Disney World when I was about 6, which started it all), and have thus far have done the responsible thing (for me/my situation) and avoided getting one. We did have the occasional budgie,finch, and canary growing up, and my sister had a red lori for all too short of a time. My now-wife and I got "our" first bird, a beautiful cockatiel named Anya, early in 2000. I read a ton about birds at the time. A few months later, we added a budgie, Nimue. Sadly, Nim just passed almost 2 months ago, most likely from a reproductive tumor or cycst. She was best described as "an angry ball of sunshine" - small, BEAUTIFULLY colored, and animated like a Gremlin - the got wet and fed after midnight kind. We all miss her terribly, especially Anya.

 

Through a serendipitous set of circumstances, I suddenly find myself in the company of a 13 year old Timneh. I was just starting to think about getting another bird after losing Nimue and mentioned it to a family friend, the owner of said Timneh. She said, "Do you want S.?" Hmm.

 

She is S.'s original momma - she brought him home when he was weaned 13 years ago, but as life goes, she feels she no longer has enough time/attention for him. She feels it's in his best interest she find another home for him. But she's not 'dumping' him - she actually first mentioned this at least a year ago and still hadn't found the right new home for him. I'd kind of forgotten about her wanting to rehome him until she mentioned that.

 

So after some quick parrot refreshers (online and in my old books), much discussion with my wife and daughter (nearly 4 years old) and at least 50 questions, we brought him over in his travel cage for a 'weekend sleepover' to see how we all get along. So far, so good. There's some hesitation, testing, and misbehavior on his end, but nothing I'm too intimidated by yet. He has a few issues which make things a little more difficult, however. The main thing, after no longer being hand-trained, is that he is missing most of his toes on his right foot. Apparently this happened when he was very young - I don't think it was self-inflicted - but am waiting fro a more thorough answer on that. He's also missing part of a toe on his left foot. Again, these are OLD injuries and are completely healed. He's pretty good about getting around his cage and can still sleep on one foot (either foot), so it doesn't slow him down too much. Where it GOES seem to come into play (or maybe I'm just making excuses for him) is when trying to get him to step up. He'll step onto my hand, sometimes with a testing or protesting nip, sometimes without, but immediately flutters off (he is not flighted) - often before I can even praise him. In part, I think he's trying to be boss, for sure, but I also wonder if his unsure-footedness is adding to the issue. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

 

In addition/an extension of that is that not being flighted, he is INCREDIBLY clumsy when he does try to get away from step-up practice (even if done on the floor) that I fear he's going to hurt himself. Is this a rational fear or unfounded?

 

Ok, this intro has gotten really long and I've even thrown in some questions so I'd better stop before I get even further carried away. Other than some training issues, he's settling in fairly well. He has no interest/aggression towards the cockatiel and vice versa (they are housed quite separately and I do NOT intend to let them play together/on each others cages). There's also a bunny in the room and at times he seems amused by her. Right now he's getting some time out on a play gym, but I wish I could say he got there gracefully, by hand.

 

I've already been combing through the forums a bit and it looks like there's a bunch of great information here. I look forward to sucking all of the knowledge out of your brains.

[Talon]

Hi Mark & Welcome to our family. I am so happy you are doing so much research into your new addition. I am sure you will figure out her physical abilities as time goes on. I have an amazon that does the same with her wings when she steps up. I attribute it to her showing off for me and getting the opportunity to exercise them as she is stlll clipped when we got her. i look forward to hearing more form you. I am sure others with more experience will be here soon to help you better.

[judygram]

Hello Mark and welcome to our family, we are so glad you could give this new to you grey a new home.

This is just the first weekend right, give the bird some time to settle down for we are talking about a mature bird that has baggage that could be hard to deal with but in time it will become easier, just be patient with him and good things will come with lots of patience.

I doubt he is not stepping up because of his handicaps for he probably doesn't even know he isn't like other birds, he is just unsure of his new surroundings after all he is in a completely new to him environment and being a mature bird will take him longer to adjust.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things for now, include him in the goings on in the house, talk to him a lot and just be there for him and you will gradually see him show more of his true personality, for right now he is a little guarded.

Do read thru the many threads for lots of useful information and ask questions you may have and we will do our best to get you some answers.

We would love to see some pictures of S, is that his real name, if you would indulge us.

[Luvparrots]

Hi Mark, great intro by the way. What a wonderful thing you have done to take S in and give him a new forever home. I'm wondering if his missing toes are due to a possible catching them in a closing door as our greys do love to sit on door tops if given the chance. I of course am just guessing. Whatever happened S is certainly lucky to have found you and your family. I would suggest that you post some of your questions in the Health Room. Dave007, the moderator there, is a truly remarkable man who has oodles of great information about our greys. Please do post some pictures of S as I am a lover of Timnehs. My Ana Grey is the love of my life!!! Welcome to the Grey family!!

[slmclean]

hi Mark, welcome to the forum.

[oblivion]

Thanks for being so welcoming, everyone. I've taken a step back on the 'training' and just hung out with him a lot more today, and it's paying off greatly. First off, this morning, I took his cage in the bathroom with me while I took a shower. We have a glass shower, so I could see him and he could see the running water. Occasionally I'd splash some water over the top towards him and he loved it - whistling, bobbing his head, and doing the old Stevie Wonder sway. In talking to his original owner today, I found out he used to love going in the shower. Good to know - sounds like a possible bribe to get him to trust me.

 

Additionally, she said that his toes have been missing since hatching.

 

This evening, I brought both birds down to the kitchen in their cages and my daughter and I took turns feeding them Cheerios. They also got spaghetti and peppers, which they both loved. It was my way of introducing him to the dogs (two labs) and cat. He took it all in stride - never really getting nervous. I played a little tin whistle a bit, and he was rockin' out on his perch (my daughter was dancing, too). After that, we moved to the living room for some Dora the Explorer and World Cup Soccer/Football. For the last hour or so, now, he has been going through a repertoire of whistles, clicks, clucks, and something which may have been a dog barking. No words yet. He's looking very much like he'd like me to come take him out, but when I go over to open the door, he gets up to the back corner of the cage and extends his beak like he's going to bite. I'm not going to push it tonight - just going to let it be a good day.

 

Thanks again everybody. I've got a few pics up on Flickr, and will get more up soon: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=spencer&w=89453473%40N00

[Luvparrots]

Great pictures Mark. S certainly does very well with the talons he has and seems very confident. I usually just open Ana Grey's cage door and let her come out if she wants to. You might try that with your new friend so that his coming out of his cage is "his decision." Looking forward to hearing more about S and how his settling in goes. By the way, you daughter is certainly a little cutie!!!!

[oblivion]

What's the consensus (if there is one) here on an "open door policy?" The two books I've re-read recently say the bird should not be allowed to climb out/in on his/her whim, but removed/returned by the person (My Parrot, My Friend states it, Guide To a Well-Behaved Parrot references it). I agree we shouldn't be FORCING them out when we want and they don't, but there are times when we just NEED them out of the cage and a well-rehearsed exit strikes me as a good thing. I mean if there's a fire in the house, I want to be able to say "Step up!" and get him out of the cage (and into his traveler) without question, chasing, or having to resort to a towel. Is this extreme thinking? For what it's worth, with my cockatiel, I can tell when she's not happy about coming out, but does anyway. In those cases, I put her right back in (with an "In" command). That way, we BOTH have a say in the situation. Thoughts? I'm willing to change my thinking on this, but it's just what I've always heard and it makes some sense. That all said, for now I've relaxed the training, as I've said, while he's still getting settled in.

[danmcq]

Personally, I let my birds choose if they want to step-up to come out or not. Sometimes they will and lift their foot the minute their respective cage doors are opened. Other times, the foot stays down, I know they want to come out on their own and respect that. If I go ahead and force a step up, the chances are 80 percent that I am going to get a hard bite.

 

Returning to the Cage is another story. My conure goes to his cage everynight around 7 and will start squawking if one of us do not notice soon enough. He expects us to come and close his cage, say good night and cover him. My Grey would stay out of his cage 24-7, if he could. Thus, the return to the cage is somes a little bit of a struggle, but we never stop demanding it until he is in the cage. Most times, he enjoys an evening chilling with my wife and is already half a sleep when she gentley picks him up from her lap and carries him to the cage cup between both hands.

 

Some birds will become cage aggressive as they age and not welcome your hands in the cage while they are in it. I guarantee you, if a bird is like that, the lessons of "you come out on my hand or stay", will not work without taking severe after a while. In my book, respect is a 2 way street and when allowed, both come to a more harmonious life with each other.

 

In regards a fire, everyone in the house would be freaking out! Us, the dogs and the birds. In a 911 like that, I would pick the birds up quickly in my hands and just suffer any resulting bites as I take them out to safety. There would be no looking for towels or asking first.

Edited June 15, 2010 by danmcq

[Jayd]

Welcome, no where can you get better advice or suggestions then these Grey't people have given you. Jayd, Maggie and Spock and the flock

[Luvparrots]

Danmcq has the right attitude about cages. My first post was "in general." I am retired so during the day my fids' cage doors are always open except when circumstances are different. A repairman or installment people in working in the house. Neither of my birds are cage aggressive as I have always from day one gone into their cages to clean, change toys, whatever. They have never had the opportunity to think their cages weren't also my cages. And as Dan already stated in an emergency all bets are off and I will get my friends into their travel cages and out the door as fast as I can in anyway I can.

[oblivion]

Interesting. So far two votes against, zero for. I guess you can't believe everything you read. Like the issue of cage/gym height. Thanks for the opinions. Keep 'em coming.

[JJsHoney]

I have to agree with everyone else, Rene comes out when he feels like it (he is usually hanging from the door so he actually "swings" out) he goes in from time to time to eat drink etc. Getting him in is sometimes a struggle, as he will only step up to ONE perch and I have to shut the door fast or he is back to my shoulder in a flash lol.. Also in an emergency I wouldn't be so polite in asking and just deal with bites I have 3 dogs and 3 birds and 2 other people to get out too

[oblivion]

I think I'll pick this up in the training forum. Thanks again, everyone for the greetings. BTW, I'm uploading some new pictures to Flickr

 

 

 

Foot closeup:

 

Anya:

 

Bonus - Maggie and Em:

[oblivion]

Just wanted to post a one-week updated - if only for my own reflection later. I hope that's OK.

 

Spencer's BIG cage got moved in on Wednesday evening. He seemed happy to be back 'home' and I was glad to give him more space than his travel cage. The next morning, I hung up his 'very favorite bell toy ever,' and to my dismay, he just sat on his boing, totally ignoring it. He's continued to eat well - pretty much anything I give him from fruits to veggies (though he pretty much ignores almonds, which surprised me - fine, more for me) - but his vocalizations had trailed off from the first few days and I was getting a little worried.

 

Yesterday evening, my daughter was the first to ask, "can we bring the birds down?" when we got home and I started making dinner. Awesome. When I got upstairs, I'd found out SOMEONE had taken a VERY wet bath in his water dish. Heh. Good thing I don't care about that carpet and there's a shop vac at the ready! Back downstairs, I was grilling, and every time I'd go outside to tend the fire, Spencer would whistle like crazy (edit to state - I KNOW the birds can not be exposed to smoke - the grill is well away from the back door and the smoke was a non-issue). When I'd get in, he'd be pretty much quiet. It was nice to hear more noises from him again. Both birds got some fresh peppers and celery and then settled in as the sun went down, so I put them up to bed.

 

This morning, he was out on his play gym while I was doing my morning routine (recently amended, of course). From the other room, I started hearing an odd banging noise and of course my bunny started thumping away. I peeked into the room and there was Spencer on the side of his cage with an empty gatorade bottle (sniped from off the windowsill - usually has rainwater in it for an orchid) in his beak, banging it against the cage and wall for all he was worth. He dropped it when he saw me. I just started laughing at him and he seemed to enjoy that. As he climbed back up to the top of the cage/gym, I put the bottle up there for him. He picked it up, climbed up his boing, and started beating on his 'very favorite bell toy ever' with it. Such fun. The whole time, he was whistling and grunting away and I just kept laughing.

 

He settled down after a bit, but still played around with the bell a lot. He'd hang off the boing by his beak and shake the snot out of the bell with is foot. Later on, when I brought veggies up for everyone, I was feeding Maggie, the bunny, and I heard it - his first word to me since being in my house, "Hello?"

 

Awesome.

 

Getting him back into the cage off the gym is still not pretty, but the beak seldom comes into play anymore. Getting him into his travel cage to go downstairs/elsewhere is easy with a trick I learned from his original owner. The travel cage fits nicely in the big cage. He'll climb right into it without fuss - he must know it means fun times ahead. Getting him back from small to big cage is equally drama free. The only thing he doesn't like is me approaching him to put him back in when he's out free. Thus far, it's a lot like herding.

 

Thanks for indulging me this little recap. As of this evening we'll have had him a full week. Really, it's going better than I had dared hope. And Anya, my 'tiel, really seems to like having him around as well.

Edited June 18, 2010 by oblivion

[danmcq]

Great photos and update on Spencer's settling in.

 

It sounds like his cage and other familiar items made a difference in his openness and vocal activities. Being able to speak with the previous owner on how he interacted with Spencer is a HUGE benefit in knowing what he expects.

 

This was a good update to read and enjoy. Thanks for posting it and keep them coming.

[Luvparrots]

Spencer's looking good Mark. He certainly seems to be making himself right at home. Some lovely pictures of your family, feathered, four-footed, and two-footed. Your daughter is a cutie!

[oblivion]

Thanks for the comments, danmcq and luvparrots!

 

Another Friday, another update (two full weeks with Spencer).

 

This morning, from before I even uncovered him, he's been a real character. As I was getting the cover off, he was working on his "Hello." I let him out for a bit. When I had to head to work, he was out on his playtop and Anya was on hers (across the room). I put Anya away and said, "Spencer, do you want to put yourself away, or do I need to chase you again?" As I was closing up Anya's cage, he was already climbing down off his boing. He stood at the edge of the tray eying up the situation a bit and then lowered himself over the edge and climbed on to a perch in the cage. He put himself away! Of course I showered him with "Good birds!" and some extra Nutraberries. As I was leaving, he started going through a huge routine of new-to-me sounds. After I left, my wife (who works from home some days) told me that at one point he when through a whole phone conversation from ringing, "Hello?," *mumble mumble mumble*, "Good bye!"

 

I made this for him to hang out (literally) in the kitchen with us:

 

(Don't worry, the plants/shelf are much further away than they look.)

 

I set his carrier on a tray on top of the dogs' crate and have a rope and chain ladder up to the perch. He hasn't gotten to climbing up there on his own yet, but he eyes it longingly and when I lift the carrier up when he's on top of it, he eagerly steps onto the swing.

 

I need an overall photo of it, but the swing is mounted to the ceiling joists with two stainless steel eyes, suspended by sisal rope, and the rope to the ceiling (about 20") is protected by PVC pipe. There's an untreated pine 2x4 spanning above the perch holding the hanging toys (again, stainless steel eyes) which he's free to chew on if he ever climbs up there. It shouyld all be parrot-safe/consumable. I made the whole thing with new stuff (eyes, perch, rope) and stuff I had around the house (2x4, PVC, toys) for about $30. My wife thought I bought the whole thing and spend at least $75.

 

The only thing I need to figure out is how to mount a treat and maybe water cup - though he's not up there for long stretches of time. So far, for treats, I either hand-feed or hang a veggie-skewer-holder. I've got dog pillows on the tile underneath him in case he bails off (which he's done once). The dogs love cleaning up whatever he drops.

 

Another great thing is that in the last week, I think I've only been nipped once, despite handling him to get him back in his cage when he DOESN'T put himself away. When I grab him, he makes a heck of a racket, but doesn't bite. The one nip I DID get was after he jumped off the swing onto the floor and I helped him back up. He was fine for the 'rescue,' but afterward I got bold and tried petting him. I got two good scritches in before he let me know that was enough/too much and gave me a good pinch on the palm of my hand/thumb. I couldn't get mad - I knew I'd pushed too far.

 

He's done a few step-ups and even stayed on-board for about 5 seconds once, but we still need to work on that. Anyway, still lovin' this dude and he just keeps getting cooler, thanks in part to all of the help from everyone here (been reading all week, though not posting much).

 

I hope everyone else is having a happy Friday!

[Luvparrots]

Great update Mark!!!! Spencer is certainly settling in nicely and becoming a part of your family! He sounds like a very well-adjusted guy and I truly believe in no time will be an amazing part of your family!!! Love the hanging perch by the way. Before Ana Grey could fly, she had rope ladders all over the house so I am a big believer in them. As you can see, I'm a fan of Timnehs and Spencer if a cutie!!!!!

Edited June 25, 2010 by luvparrots

[oblivion]

I can't believe it's been a year and a half since I've posted here. Recent events have brought me back, but I'll get to that after a brief recap of the 'lost time' - but don't worry, it's all good.

 

Things progressed slowly with Spencer - taking it at his pace as well-suggested here. His out-of-cage time was usually just him running around the floor playing with empty bottles and things and he'd either put himself away before needed or I could herd him back into his cage. Due to his footing insecurities (again, only the front two toes on his left foot are fully grown - and none on his right), I never pushed the 'step up' issue. After about 6 months, we'd developed a rapport to the point that we have a 'beak shake' greeting through the bars where I grab his beak and lightly move it side to side and he lightly (usually) grabs my finger and will occasionally head-bob (though has not regurgitated for me). I figured if this was as good as our bond, I could be happy with that. He's entertaining and nice to have around, even if he isn't a "little old man in a feather suit."

 

By the way, speaking of entertaining, he has a decent vocabulary of "Hullo?" in about 5 different voices, including former owners and having recently picked up my wife's. He's also got a few different ways of saying his name - my favorite is a melodic, "PENCE-errr." He has my little's girl's 'little girl squeal' down pat, of course, as well as the microwave at his old house, Nextel phone chirps, other phone ringers, etc. He's also got a "Good night, go to bed!" routine. Quite entertaining.

 

He does screech occasionally, but that's generally limited to times he wants to be out (but can't be for some reason) or if I'm playing music too loud (or, of course, if the vacuum is running). His previous owner passed him along to me because she felt he wasn't getting the attention he needed and had started to pluck wing and tail feathers (though not chest feathers). That's all stopped as far as I've seen, which heartens me. I had been concerned that, with all the other pets, 5 (now) year old, etc., I might not be giving him enough attention either. He seems well-entertained during the day by his roommates (cockatiel and bunny, in their own cages) and a low-playing radio. Some evenings he calls for us when we get home, others he seems content to sit quietly in his room.

 

Though he will occasionally clamp down a to test me, the only bites in the ensuing months have been due to my stupidity of trying to be as casual in unfamiliar situations such as when in his traveling cage on vacation. As for other people, he gets on very well. He allows anyone to change his food and water even if he's at someone else's house while we're away. I do seem to be his preferred person - he contact calls to me and will let me know if he wants me to hang around. And that's been the way of things until about a week ago.

 

Last week, I had him down in the living room during TV time (in his travel cage with the door open as usual - that's how i shuttle him around without him having to step up). It was getting late and he was settling in, beak grinding, etc. At one point I looked over at him and he was dancing around a little trying to get my attention for a beak-shake. As I put my hand up to the cage bars, he bent his head all the way down instead of offering me his beak. I very slowly, gently, cautiously started to pet his forehead - nearly convinced he was suckering me in for a bite. but he never did bite. As I was petting him, I nudged my wife who was on the far end of the couch and she said, "Wow!" I got a few more scritches in, and then he seemed done for the night. I soon put him back up in his room. I was elated.

 

Fast-forward about 3 days and we got to this point:

 

The first time he's ever been 'on' me for more than a few fleeting second - and he stayed there a good 15 minutes.

 

He also hammed up a bit:

 

The next evening, I teased him a bit by giving our other bird, Anya, EXTRA scritches, praise, etc., with the help of my daughter. By the time I put her back on her cage, he was essentially BEGGING to be pet!!!

 

 

 

 

Quality family floor time.

 

 

I don't know why the sudden breakthrough, but I'm not going to waste too much time trying to pin it down. Too busy playing with my 'new' parrot.

[judygram]

Well it seems Spencer is doing just fine in your care, you mention a sudden breakthrough but it may have just taken him this long to feel he can trust you as being a rehomed bird they are very slow to trust again. You have made great progress with him and he looks wonderful from the pics you shared with us. Now lets not let so much time go by that you don't check in again and pictures are always welcomed.

[oblivion]

Thanks, Judy. I know that the progress was actually built up over the last 18 months, but it really is pretty astounding to see it all pay off at once. I will try to check in more often.

[DawL]

I will call you Oblivion. Love the Elder Scrolls games...not sure if that is why you have your name, but it works for me. Just wanted to say welcome to you!

[oblivion]

Thanks, DawL! I've used that name LONG before the game came out and even have it on twitter. As you can imagine I get a LOT of mis-directed tweets from people referring to the game. I just had someone recently ask me how much Bethesda has offered me for it and what I'm holding out for, though honestly, I've never heard one word from them.

 

BTW, my aforementioned honeymoon is over, the little snot ambushed and bit my pinkie yesterday. Ah well, he still came in for scritches later in the evening when all was forgiven. VERY much like my 5-year old.

[Ray P]

I would just like to say welcome back after 18 months and for the great update and I love your pictures.