14 week CAG advice please!

[thxango40]

We have a 14 week old CAG and being new grey owners, we have a few concerns.

First a little background...

Oliver was brought home at 11 weeks.

Hand feeding has not been a problem. He would cry to eat twice a day, and quickly began to eat food on his own. Making sounds throughout the day, discovering new sounds often and taking treats from our hand.

 

Our concerns are these:

Oliver has yet to show any real interest in my wife or I and still looks at us with great uncertenty.

Hates to be wrapped in a towel and fights to get out.

Will try to bite if you bring your hand close to pet him.

Shows very little intest in play or exploring and sits quickly most of the time. (Cage full of toys)

Has become non-voical over the past few days and has stopped eating his regular food.

Is showing no interest in veggies or treats any more but still lets us hand feed him no problem.

He does not appear sick and his weight has remained around 330g.

 

We are very loving parents and are very confused by this behavior.

We have also reverted to hand feeding him twice a day until he begins to eat on his own again.

Is this normal grey behavior or should we be concerned?

[Jayd]

Question? HAS HE FLEDGED? Tried to fly? A fledgling will lose weight before flying. Hows his poop? Describe it, Does he eat colored pellets? Has his poop changed? Sometimes a Grey will be a one perso bird, don't worry still really young! Jayd

[thxango40]

No, he has not fledged. Our breeder clipped his wings before we picked him up. I was concerned about this but she told me it was better this way. "They never miss flying if they never get the chance". He does however, flaps his wings alot and jumps off this cage to the floor. The breeder said to just put him back in this cage for a while as soon as he does it.

His poop has not changed much. Long, greenish-brown with white surroundings and yellowish urine. We have been feeding him Kaytee Exact Rainbow pebbles along with offering carrots, sweet peas, mango, red pepper, etc. Whatever we could get him to eat as he is not fully weened yet. He loved carrots but now just throws the food after we hand it to him. Also, if I or my wife try to interact with him, he walks away as if he's uneasy about us.

Edited May 29, 2010 by thxango40

[judygram]

No, he has not fledged. Our breeder clipped his wings before we picked him up. I was concerned about this but she told me it was better this way. "They never miss flying if they never get the chance". He does however, flap his wings alot and jumps off this cage to the floor. The breeder said to just put him back in this cage for a while as soon as he does it.

 

 

I would like to strangle that breeder but thats another story, a bird needs to be able to fly and land before the wings are clipped but most of us here at grey forums like to leave our grey flighted, they have wings for that very purpose and your bird is only doing what comes naturally only she doesn't know she can't do it. It sounds like your bird was not weaned before you brought it home and that is another strike against your breeder, he/she needs to be put out of business.

I don't think your grey has settled into his new home yet, it takes time for them to feel comfortable and the breeder clipping the wings so early has hindered his confidence in my opinion but please be patient with him. There are a couple more members here who will offer greater advice than I have to give, they are breeders and long time bird/grey owners and will give you some excellent advice, their screen names are Jayd, Dave007 or Spinner.

[Jayd]

No, he has not fledged. Our breeder clipped his wings before we picked him up. I was concerned about this but she told me it was better this way. "They never miss flying if they never get the chance". He does however, flap his wings alot and jumps off this cage to the floor. The breeder said to just put him back in this cage for a while as soon as he does it.

His poop has not changed much. Long, greenish-brown with white surroundings and yellowish urine. We have been feeding him Kaytee Exact Rainbow pebbles along with offering carrots, sweet peas, mango, red pepper, etc. Whatever we could get him to eat as he is not fully weened yet. He loved carrots but now just throws the food after we hand it to him. Also, if I walk towards his cage, he walks away as if he's uneasy about me.

I hope you'll reconsider the wing clipping, there's some good "Pro and Con threads and posts here... Pad around the floor where ever he falls, they can split their keel, [breast bone] touch him there and see if he's tender or sore! colored pellets can change their poop color. It sounds like he's trying to fledge, wanting to fly, this is something they never forget, and at the very least should have been taught to fly before clipping, a breeder saves money and the chance of injury by clipping before 1st flight!

Your baby's young, keep hand feeding till "He" stops himself....Even if he eats all the food you give him, don't stop , let him stop! Here's a thread on Abundant feeding, might help explain: http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189769-Abundent-Feeding!

PM Dave007 and Spinner, there a wealth of info

Jayd

[Jayd]

Your baby is just adapting, has to build trust in you. Did you visit him a few times before you brought him home? How was he then? A Grey when fledging will lose weight, all they can think about is flying, your baby can't, so I believe this has put a little weight on his shoulder, he could also be blaming you because he can't fly.[?] Keep up with all your doing, don't give up!!!! Waiting for your response's. Do you have any pictures you can upload?

Jayd

[thxango40]

Jayd,

Thanks for the advice. So should we let his wings grow out and let him fly later? Or will it have been too long? We had no change to visit him before be bought him. The breeder lives 100 miles away and we were told by them that the baby "could not be distrub" when we first visited them. He would have been about 9 weeks at the time. Seemed a little weird to me but this guy has been in business for 38 years breeding birds so we trusted him. Oliver just seems depressed and a little scared and unsure. I feel so bad. We are continuing with the love and attention, hand feedings and treat offerings. So you think he'll come around? Will he build trust in me if I make him do things like be wrapped in a towel aginst his will? My breeder says it lets them know you're the boss any the bird will learn to accept the touching. I feel like he's just getting mad at me. What do you think?

 

PS. Check out my profile for pictures I just uploaded today!

Edited May 29, 2010 by thxango40

[Jayd]

Yes, please let them grow out at least long enough for him to fly. [i don't clip] Don't worry about the towel right now, concentrate on having him with you, keep the playing and talk going a lot right now even if he don't seem to respond, a Grey is always thinking! You will read in the forums most breeders encourage new owners to spend as much time as possible while the baby is growing up! Yes, he is scared and unsure, but this we'll pass. HaHa, You'll never be the boss, your Grey is in charge...[Read one of Spock's threads] Yes, he we'll build trust quickly, just keep doing what your doing, and remember that a Grey can sense emotion, and if your unhappy around them, they know it!!!!! Only your Grey we'll determine how much touching he will allow you...

Jayd

[Jayd]

Here you go!!!!! http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?89533-HOW-TO-POST-PICTURES-photo-tuturial

[thxango40]

Jayd,

Thanks again for all the great advice. I feel better knowing that I'm not doing anything majorly wrong. I work from home so he's getting about 10 hours attention and love per day. That's what makes it so weird. All that love and attention and still unsure of us after 3 weeks. I'm guessing greys just take longer to adjust then one may think. I'll check out the other threads you recommended. Hope you enjoy the pictures!

[judygram]

Jay is so right with the advice but the more I hear about this breeder of yours the more I don't like their methods. He was sold too quickly, was not weaned, not allowed to fledge, was clipped and didn't allow you to visit with your baby and he has been in business for 38 years, well that don't mean squat for he has a lot to learn, I only wish you had come here and talked to us before you got your grey, we would have set you straight.

Yes please do let his wings grow out and he can learn to fly then, it will not be too late but he may never have the confidence in it that he may have had if he had been allowed to fly from the start, his ego is damaged right now but it can be fixed, just continue to be there for him, talk to him and he will come to trust you but it does take time.

A grey always wants to be boss and they like to make their own decisions about things, you can work around this by allowing him to make some decisions for himself and letting him think he has made the choice, after all we have the bigger brain but you will be surprised at how smart they really are.

We would love to see some pictures of him if you have any.

[Jayd]

Jayd,

Thanks again for all the great advice. I feel better knowing that I'm not doing anything majorly wrong. I work from home so he's getting about 10 hours attention and love per day. That's what makes it so weird. All that love and attention and still unsure of us after 3 weeks. I'm guessing greys just take longer to adjust then one may think. I'll check out the other threads you recommended. Hope you enjoy the pictures!

Thank you, It can take time..Keep a check on his weight, and his eating, Don't hesitate to call a vet if something doesn't seem right!

Jayd

[thxango40]

Edited May 29, 2010 by thxango40

[Jayd]

Thank you Judy so much. I forgot to mention, part of the fledgling is not only learning to fly, but learning to balance!, Grays are some what clumsy, especially if they have never flown! A suggestion, at bedtime, remove all objects from the bottom of his cage and don't put a perch under another one that he might fall on.... Your doing Grey't.... Jayd

[Jayd]

A bird can fly with clipped wings, ......

Edited May 29, 2010 by Jayd

[Jayd]

ALL IT TAKES IS A BREEZE [LIKE A GLIDER], THEY CAN BE LIFTED TO A TREE, AND YOU MAY NEVER GET THEM BACK........ ONLY TAKE THEM OUTSIDE IN A CAGE OR HARNESS... YOU SAID HE FLAPPED HIS WINGS, THAT ALL HE NEEDS..jAYD

[Jayd]

After looking at the photo, he defenently has enough wing to fly in a draft...... Please get a harness or outside cage!!!! Jayd

[judygram]

Yes they can Jay when outside so only take him out on a harness or in a cage.

Thanks for the pics, he is so handsome.

[thxango40]

Good advice. I won't take him out without a cage or harness again. I'd like to get him into a flight suit w/harness, but he's still very grumpy about all the touching.

[Jayd]

You might want to look into a "Aviator Flight Harness" ...Thanks Jayd

This is just 1 of many threads on the subject.......

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189789-Aviator-Harness

[crossfit]

he is beautiful. I love the babies. Mine is still a baby too but a teeny bit older at almost 6 months. When you check out the harnesses, please consider the one mentioned above. I read a lot about them all before settling on one and this one wins hands down for ease of use for the human and comfort for the parrot. The flight suits are named wrong. They use their tales when they fly and the suits keep their whole rear end covered up and thus they can't fly in them. So, you will have to decide whether to put him in a flight suit or to just take paper towels to clean up when you go out. I have certain shirts I wear when we go into town together that I don't care if they are pooped on and he loves his harness because it means we get to go explore the world. The harness or flight suit however will take time for him to get used to. My breeder socializes all her babies to enjoy the harness so I lucked out. It can take a while. The aviator harness comes with a dvd that has very detailed instructions. Don't skimp on the first steps of getting him used to the harness without it being on as it will make a lot of difference later on. And the same thing for the wearing - you might only get the neck part on the first week or two then take it right back off again. The exact instructions are in the dvd. If you do choose to get a flight suit, then people can tell you how to step by step get him used to it once you have it. But check here first if your in doubt as the first time they are introduced to the thing will help them decide if they are okay with it or not in the future.

[Elvenking]

The fact that I am hearing your breeders advice along the way, and it seems that he has been doing this for 38 years and operates this way, deeply saddens me. Nothing against you at all because you are the proud owner of one of the greatest creatures on the earth and aparrantly are here to make sure you do good. But I would like to have a few words with your breeder for sure. Callous is a word that comes to mind. Take care of your baby and just try to make your Grey know no fear. Cheers.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Elvenking

[Xtreme575]

Hi there, Jay and Judy have offered you great advice, and I cannot offer you more, but I can assure you that I was in your same situation a few months ago, except my parrot (I've been told) did fledge, and most importantly learned to land well before being clipped. However, he was given a very severe clip, and has taken some pretty good falls as a result of it. I too worried about the keel bone, and have put air mattresses with towels over the areas around his cage to allow him a bit of a bounce rather than a bump or an injury.

 

Paco is nearly a year old now, and has three molted flight feathers. We are both very proud of these, and looking forward to the others being replaced so he can fly again, I can't wait. I think that flying gives them a better sense of confidence, and just requires that we owners take a little more responsibility, I'm more than willing to do this!

 

I also use the harness when we go out, even though there isn't a whole lot of fear that Paco will get far, as I said, he is severely clipped. I use the harness now because I want him used to it for when we really need it. It's an adventure in partience and determination to get it on and off, but so worth it when we go outside!

 

I wish new members would know the right questions to ask before buying their babies. Mine was ok, but I wish she was a little more modern in her thinking and realize that that some of her practices from a long time ago have been proven wrong... Also, she admitted that she wasn't able to afford some of the higher quality pellets on the market, so she used one that I wasn't willing to use, that was a bit of a transition, but one that we are happy with now, I'm still working on trying to get to Harrison's, but I think this is a dream that I won't see fulfilled.

 

In any event, immerse yourself in the readings that this forum has. The information on this site is amazing, current, and observations are made by those who are involved with their birds. As everyone lots of questions and you will have a well adjusted, happy African Grey in no time at all!

[Jayd]

Thank you, Grey't post.....Jayd

[thxango40]

The fact that I am hearing your breeders advice along the way, and it seems that he has been doing this for 38 years and operates this way, deeply saddens me. Nothing against you at all because you are the proud owner of one of the greatest creatures on the earth and aparrantly are here to make sure you do good. But I would like to have a few words with your breeder for sure. Callous is a word that comes to mind. Take care of your baby and just try to make your Grey know no fear. Cheers.

 

Thank you for this post. I thought I had done my homework.... On our first visit to the breeder I brought up these points but was assured he was almost weened and clipping was best for him. Most of their advices seemed strange to me too, like drop him on the floor if he tries to bite you; or hold him against his will in a towel to show him you're in control. I can see now that they were just saving themselves the trouble of fully weening and clipped him to provent injury to their investment. I'm glad I found this site where I can talk with real grey owners, not just 1 breeder.