undesirable noise causing strain!

[Jayd]

A personal thanks Dave!!!!!! Jayd

[JillyBeanz]

Thanks Dave, I appreciate it. He has very little patience with forums, even when it pertains to his work.

 

I've got absolutely NO patience with forums. I've never been a member of one, don't have a Facebook account, don't do, well, whatever others do on forums - but when I was deciding whether I could offer myself as a good parent to a parrot I lurked on this forum for ages before plucking up the confidence to join. All of these people knew too much - I was this minion who'd had a cockatiel for 17 happy years. This was a forum full of vets, trainers, pet psychologists and world renowned breeders.......Of course it wasn't - but to me, from the outside, these people were clever, clever people.

 

Harvey is the happy little chappie (who's now just chewed a pen to bits right next to me) because of the constant guidance and care shown to me by these members that I previously thought were "in the profession". They of course weren't - they were just very caring, loving parronts who were able to guide a newbie into the world (and beyond).

 

I've had constant running battles (which you haven't come across yet with Francis) with regards to biting, blatant naughtiness and downright rudeness, to a point where I've taken myself off and cried (and I'm not on about with our forum members, i'm on about with Harvey!!!). They've been here for me - they've cared for me, they've shown me their compassion when I needed it most.

 

Harvey doesn't tolerate my husband much - and he's devastated and tries and tries and tries, but I am just the chosen one. There's more than just you and Francis embarking on a new life - your husband has to pick those toys up off the floor and put them back in his pram, and just accept that this is the way Francis is.

[Jayd]

Here's a couple of photo's of some of our re-homed parrots that owners couldn't cope with, mostly noise.......No manual included.....

And last Joey!!!!

[pearllyn]

but when I was deciding whether I could offer myself as a good parent to a parrot I lurked on this forum for ages

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Jill. It's best to ask these question before getting a parrot and not after. Francis may make less noise as he settles in , or he may make more. Alfie is noisier than I thought she would be, she goes through her full repertoire twice a day, sometimes it's bang in the middle of when we would like quiet. Francis may eventually give up this noise that annoys your husband so, and he may replace with a noise you find even more irratating.

I would agree 100% with Dan on this occasion - hand Francis back sooner rather than later, it will be a little easier on him.

[crossfit]

I really just have to get him to do it much less often, we're not expecting him to totally stop. But the noise got more frequent since we started trying to ignore him when he does it. I wondered if that was the first part of his learning process, but a lot of other things have changed for him in the past two weeks too.

 

Yes. I have my master's degree in psychology and have worked with special needs children as well as the seriously mentally ill of all ages. In all cases, before the behaviour disappears, it increases. They have learned that a sound or behaviour will get them something and when you start to ignore it (also called "putting it on extinction") they will try harder and more often to do that thing until they learn a new way to get whatever it was they were getting before.

 

My suggestions:

 

1. Try and figure out what was happening when he used to be rewarded for this. I think one clue is that it is the sound of the cage opening. It meant he was going to get to come out of the cage. Then, as well as ignoring the squeek, teach him a new word or sound for getting out of the cage. In the beginning you will have to take him out all the time he says it however so be prepared to do this when your both mentally set. Of course, you can take him out only for a moment to reinforce the new sound so that will help.

 

2. Seriously find ways for husband to relax. I am also sound sensitive and some sounds drive me nuts and others don't even notice them. For instance there is a drawer I have that is driving me nuts and I have been known to cover my ears when son or husband open it. The ways I deal with this are to make sure I am as relaxed as possible prior to spending time in the room with the noise. For your husband, that might mean learning about some simple destressing exercises he can do prior to walking in the house and throughout the evening and weekends.

 

3. I am wondering if you also need to relax a bit. I am imagining that you love this parrot and are feeling very overwhelmed with all these strange behaviours and now this "argument" between your parrot and your husband. When I was deciding to get an african grey, I told my husband that it is sort of like deciding to get an autistic toddler that we get to keep for the rest of our lives. Parrots demand that much attention and though we get back a lot of love, we also get back quite a few annoyances. He knew what I meant as we have raised two (normal) children together.

 

4. One thing that you might try and remember: some things will always take time. All people and animals go through phases. Sometimes it simply takes some time for things to just go away. I didn't learn this is graduate school. I learned it from having kids.

[crossfit]

Here is a link to an article on behavior extinction. Hopefully it will help you.

 

http://www.usu.edu/teachall/text/behavior/LRBIpdfs/Extinction.pdf

 

Here is another one. It is a four page lecture so make sure to click through all the pages at the navigation button at the bottom.

 

http://www.autismnetwork.org/modules/behavior/extinction/lecture01.html

 

Both of these links are applying this to children. You will have to extrapolate to animals until I can find you a more direct link. Please notice that both sites say that one of the disadvantages to using the exctinction technique for removing a behavior is that the behavior increases for some time, which is not determinable, before it decreases. Both also mention that training (reinforcing) another behaviour that is incompatible with the annoying one really makes things go smoother and more quickly

Edited May 26, 2010 by crossfit
added links

[crossfit]

Okay, here is the best I can do as applied to parrots.

 

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/departments/scream_behavior.htm

 

You will see it is basically saying the same thing as the other two articles.

[Dave007]

Ok people, lets cool it. A new person here is starting to feel extremely uncomfortable and I am too because you're venting on her in very harsh ways. She's trying to do the right thing. Maybe she will succeed, maybe not. You may not agree with it but everyone is different. Lots of people try to do the right thing and don't make out too well. Others do make out--lucky them. Not everyone has magnificent knowledge here.

 

*****master's degree in psychology and have worked with special needs children as well as the seriously mentally ill of all ages.*****

 

We're dealing with a wild animal here. We're dealing with a person who likes a bird and a person who doesn't like a bird. Very simple. It's simply a one person bird situation. Injecting information about birds is what's needed and not information about comparing special needs kids and autistic or mentally ill people to the conversation. There's no comparison nor is it warranted here. Keep all the degrees at home. Try to show a little compassion here.

I don't like this stuff going on in my room. If you gotta make some harsh statements, there's other rooms to do it in and the moderators can do what they want there but not here.

 

Anyone got any complaints about what I'm saying can go to the admins and air it out with them but not in my room

[Jayd]

Hi Dave, Hi all. Girltron seems to me to be a well educated person [sorry I don't know your name.] It seems to me, crossfit's post might be helpful to the situation. My photo's were to show possible outcome. I wish I could supply her with a manual, you know as well as I do, each case is different. This is my opinion only.....

Thanks

Jayd

[crossfit]

There's no comparison nor is it warranted here. Keep all the degrees at home. Try to show a little compassion here.

Wow. I am really embarrassed. I had no intention of trying to sound "holier than thou" or anything like that. I will refrain from sharing what knowledge I do have from now on as it is not "warrented."

 

I apologize to anyone who might have been offended by my post. I sincerely thought I was answering the original posters question about whether her gray would make the noise more often before he stopped it completely. While I don't have a lot of parrot experience, I do have other experience and can only answer from my experience. From the perspective of learning theory, the answer is a simple "yes" and I wanted to communicate that. I also hoped to share my experience with simply being human and the struggles that come in relationship. I can understand her husbands point of view as I am very sound sensitive myself and I can also understand if she feels worried about him and the new parrot as my husband and I have had temporary issues with one of our many animals seriously annoying one of us but not the other.

 

I won't post here again. I am sorry for the unwelcome sharing.

[Jayd]

I won't post here again. I am sorry for the unwelcome sharing.

Please, no, Don't stop posting! Your post was appropriate and good. It is definitely welcomed....Jayd, Maggie and Spock

[lovethatgrey]

Buy your husband earplugs and maybe a stuffed african grey instead.

 

Having a parrot is very challenging and is also alot of work and continuous learning. I cannot say that enough. Alot of the members on here have given alot of great advice. You're entitled to take what you like and ignore what you dislike. All I can say is that if he's continuously making this undesirable behaviour, he's also doing it because you and or your husband have helped to reinforce and encourage this behaviour.

 

Even if this has already been mentioned, I think that if this is important, your husband really should be on here as a member. He'd learn alot more and perhaps would be more understanding.

Edited May 27, 2010 by lovethatgrey

[Spock]

Yes. I have my master's degree in psychology and have worked with special needs children as well as the seriously mentally ill of all ages. In all cases, before the behaviour disappears, it increases. They have learned that a sound or behaviour will get them something and when you start to ignore it (also called "putting it on extinction") they will try harder and more often to do that thing until they learn a new way to get whatever it was they were getting before.

My suggestions:

1. Try and figure out what was happening when he used to be rewarded for this. I think one clue is that it is the sound of the cage opening. It meant he was going to get to come out of the cage. Then, as well as ignoring the squeek, teach him a new word or sound for getting out of the cage. In the beginning you will have to take him out all the time he says it however so be prepared to do this when your both mentally set. Of course, you can take him out only for a moment to reinforce the new sound so that will help.

 

2. Seriously find ways for husband to relax. I am also sound sensitive and some sounds drive me nuts and others don't even notice them. For instance there is a drawer I have that is driving me nuts and I have been known to cover my ears when son or husband open it. The ways I deal with this are to make sure I am as relaxed as possible prior to spending time in the room with the noise. For your husband, that might mean learning about some simple destressing exercises he can do prior to walking in the house and throughout the evening and weekends.

3. I am wondering if you also need to relax a bit. I am imagining that you love this parrot and are feeling very overwhelmed with all these strange behaviours and now this "argument" between your parrot and your husband. When I was deciding to get an african grey, I told my husband that it is sort of like deciding to get an autistic toddler that we get to keep for the rest of our lives. Parrots demand that much attention and though we get back a lot of love, we also get back quite a few annoyances. He knew what I meant as we have raised two (normal) children together.

4. One thing that you might try and remember: some things will always take time. All people and animals go through phases. Sometimes it simply takes some time for things to just go away. I didn't learn this is graduate school. I learned it from having kids.

 

Maggie here! Isn't this what you Dave and others have said all along to many different people? Agreed, not as eloquent!!!!! Please accept an apology.......Maggie, Spock, and Jayd

[Ozzysmom]

I hope you can fix this, let us know how it goes. Ozzy has actually gotten louder since we got him. when we got him he was so calm and almost silent, now he will do contact calls very loud for long time (we always answer him, he does other noises that are crazy sounding even the squeaky door and dog barking of course I love all his noises, makes me think he is happy. I hope your husband can get some more patience for this guy, you are very lucky to have a grey in your life and I think that if you get rid of him because hubby made you it will make you bitter.

[JillyBeanz]

I don't think Crossfit meant any offence by her posting, I actually found it quite interesting!! There must be some parallels that can be transferred in order to help Girltron (sorry, I don't know her name either)!

 

I've read the articles and comments through - and can definitely pick out some helpful points - such as getting the husband to relax etc, so I think most of it was quite helpful

[Greywings]

You might try playing some upbeat music to give him something else to think about when your hubby is due home, or make this time his spray bath time as a wet bird is often quiet until dry. Bird is feeling out where to fit in to your family, my hubby has some hearing loss (this happened before the birds) and our Cockatoo's always seem to scream when he comes home, it is something he has great trouble tolerating. Cockatoo flock calls can put a Grey sound of any kind into background noise, my dear hubby loves me enough to go to another room until the birds quiet down rather than asking me to not have them. Love makes adjustments to keep each other happy and if Grey has to be the adjustment you make do it sooner rather than later. If you and hubby are willing to work on extinguishing the sound it can be done by not reacting, they love attention enough to motivate them into making sounds you will respond to. An alternative would be to move the bird to another room away from hubby when hubby needs some quiet (sleep cage) done in a positive way not as a punishment.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Greywings

[Jayd]

Instead of using my own words, here's a web site to explain it. It works, it' the only thing that works.......I've used this technique for years, it's been mentioned before..It's hard to stick with it.

Jayd

http://www.wikihow.com/Train-Parrots-to-Make-Less-Noise

[judygram]

Thats an excellent source of information and exactly what Girltron needs to do, thanks for sharing that link with us.

[Girltron]

Boy, I've been too busy to read posts the last day or so, and there's certainly a lot I've missed.

 

I found Crossfit's posts absolutely helpful and right on target with what I was looking for, and I hope she doesn't stop posting on this site. I didn't think she sounded like a know it all. Just someone with helpful experience. I'm going to persevere with the techniques I've put into place, crossfit's reassured me that the frequency increasing isn't a sign that I'm doing the wrong thing.

 

Having a sleep cage and an 8:30 bedtime is a REAL help. Francis has time to be talkative after he's eaten his dinner, and yes he does make the noise along with many others, but he goes to bed before he drives my husband batty and it's good for Francis too to have uninterrupted sleep. Also he sleeps until after Frank goes to work in the a.m. so he's not greeted by the same noise first thing in the morning. Even if Francis never stops making this noise my husband's only in contact with him is during good playtime and doesn't hear that noise often enough to really get bothered by it now.

 

You're right Greywings, Francis IS a lot quieter immediately after a bath. It doesn't last all that long though...he gets his bath in the morning, and still manages to squeeze in 140 or so squeaks along with plenty of other sounds before I leave for work! It's okay though, I'm looking at that as a good time for reinforcing the fact that I like some noises and not others.

[Jayd]

Good morning, Boy it's good to hear that crossfit's post was useful to you. Now it's time to move on. Crossfit, there's no reason for you to stop posting , please continue or you'll be doing a Disservice to the people of this forum! We don't all disagree or agree. And Girltron, you might owe Dave a bit of thanks, he stood up for you, right or wrong! And Dave?, with all your years of wisdom and experience

Thanks

Jayd

[danmcq]

Crossfit - Thank you for your detailed comments.

 

I for one believe a degree and experience in Psychology is helpful to humans or any critter when we are trying to figure out what is going on in someone or somethings mind.

 

I am sure everyone here knows Dr. Friedman. Susan is a psychology professor at Utah State. She has contributed greatly to the Parrot community in helping us understand what goes on in our Parrots minds.

 

Many of us use the trial and error method by browsing countless hours on the web for resources to address specific issues we are encountering at times with our avian friends.

 

Through Susans work over the years in studying a parrots mind, she has a ton of information on how to deal with behavior.

 

Many things that work with human children and adults, also work when applied to critters.

 

Personally, I welcome and value statements made by someone with a degree in a specialized field. If anyone has expert advice in the respective field, it should be considered a good answer that may or may not help in the singular request for advice. But, I do think it will be very close, if not spot on to the correct answer.

 

Thank you Crossfit and please do not stop posting!!!

[Jayd]

Thank you Dan. This forum is a open forum, were not always going to hear what we want to hear, right or wrong, but if we don't post, no one will be there to reply, or learn!

Jayd

[reggieroo]

I've got absolutely NO patience with forums.

 

Could have fooled me Jill...........you seem to be on here rather a lot ;)

[JillyBeanz]

Could have fooled me Jill...........you seem to be on here rather a lot ;)

 

The pay is far too good to turn down!

 

Anway - I see this bit as me getting into heaven - it's my bit of "care in the community" Ha Ha Ha!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[crossfit]

I am sure everyone here knows Dr. Friedman. Susan is a psychology professor at Utah State. She has contributed greatly to the Parrot community in helping us understand what goes on in our Parrots minds.

I have the opportunity to take Dr. Friedman's professional class for behavioral consultants this fall and I am very excited.

 

So many people asked me not to stop posting. I really appreciate it. Disagreements happen and I think Dave just misunderstood my intent and I was surprised and it coincidentally happened on a day when my chronic back pain was acting up so I was oversensitive.

 

Lets let it go now and not stress over it. Dave has extremely valuable knowledge and I have learned a lot from him and the others on this site. I look forward to sharing what I learn in Dr. Friedman's class with you all this fall.

Edited May 28, 2010 by crossfit