People with more than one bird? ...a dilema. Advice appreciated.

[Bear]

Hi everyone,

 

If you have seen my previous posts you will know I have a young 18wk old Grey. We rescued him from some very bad conditions and have had him about 4 days now.

He is settling very well, is a friendly happy little chap and we love him to pieces already.

 

However we run a game reserve, and we are lucky enough to be able to see him every few hours during the day, and all afternoon/evening, the problem arises with our days off. We work 21 days on then 7 days off, no weekends off... so are away from home for a week once a month. It isn't going to be practical to take Bear with us all the time, as we sometimes travel quite a lot on our time off. We do have people here at the lodge who can care for him in our absence, however my concern is, what with staff leaving and coming...he will become wary of different people looking after him each time. We have spoken to a few breeders and have had conflicting advice.

 

One reputed breeder here in SA said that our best option is to get another Grey, now, while Bear is young. He said Bear won't have the same bond with us that he would have done, as it will be with the other parrot, but this is not a concern to us, so long as Bear is happy, we are happy!

 

Another breeder said that we should not get a companion as he will not bother learning to talk....this does not concern us at all. We aren't interested in party tricks and so on, just his well being.

 

Another breeder said to get another bird, such as an Eclectus (readily available here) as they are also intelligent and very similar to greys except not so nervous? We have also been advised to get an Amazon.

 

Finally (you can imagine how confused we were by now)...another breeder said he will be fine alone and just give him a new toy every week.

 

So basically guys, I just want some advice.

 

I know if we do get another bird then now should be the time before Bear gets older and bonds to us...ie jealousy. However we dont want to get another bird if it will make either of them unhappy.

I know each bird is an individual and there is no set rule, but would truly appreciate any advice or your experiences. Money isn't an issue and seperate cages/ play stands etc all fine, we have a big house and plenty of room, we just want to do what is best.

 

Thanks so much in advance!

Edited April 18, 2010 by Bear

[Dave007]

Well, you have one good thing going for you although you probably don't know it yet. You've had the bird for only 4 days and that isn't enough time to make any judgments concerning how he is concerning his personality. I absolutely don't agree with getting another bird. He doesn't seem to be a sad bird. You're only thinking ahead. You can't do that until your bird has developed a true definite personality which is impossible right now. It may take a couple of mts to see how a bird acts with different situations. Right now, you can't see that. Your bird needs time to adjust to his new first environment. That takes a while. Birds adjust to different schedules. You have your schedule and he needs to experience and learn about it. Birds are very bendable. It's good that you feel that way about talking because many times, the happiest, most well adjusted bird won't talk. No one knows why but is simply a fact which isn't important. You got him as a pet and that's what you should be working on.

"""""however my concern is, what with staff leaving and coming...he will become wary of different people looking after him each time..""" That's simply another thing that your bird has to get used to. It's called * adjustability*

 

PS---I have 3 greys and all are different from each other and none are kept in the same cage. You may get another grey who won't like your present bird. That's not uncommon either.

You're also right about jealousy. Greys can be jealous and possessive as they get older. That's their personality. A new toy every week? I doubt that it's gonna make any difference.

Of course you can get another bird but the 2 would have to have their own cages. If not, they won't bond with you. Another bird is more attractive to the other bird as opposed to finding the owners attractive.

On the other hand, having that bird might not be a good idea because from what you say, you're basically away the whole mt. Some of the time for work and some of the time for leisure but if you're not home during that leisure time it's not too good for the bird, although I may have totally misunstood your sentence. The bird can't be out with you in a game reserve because it's not healthy for the bird. The bird does a lot of time to bond with the owner. Yes, you say he's sweet and friendly right now but understand that he's only a baby. Many people here will tell you that their bird changed as time went on. I don't mean being nasty but the grey becomes more independent and actually as a grey gets older he becomes a less cuddly bird. It's a known fact that the african grey species aren't known for being cuddly when they get older.

So, it's up to you. Just remembr that at his age he can get used to another owner with little problems.

I'm not trying to sound like a pessimist but you did ask for opinions.

 

PS--You may get another grey or other species and they not like each other. That can happen and it isn't unusual. Or you may get another bird and they'll like each other. There's no way to predict the future.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Dave007
add on

[Bear]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your advice but I think you missunderstood what I said. We are most definitely not away the whole month. My point was we are ALWAYS here, apart from our week off. I said we are lucky in that we can come home every few hours during the day as we live at work, so he is never alone for long. We do not have weekends off like 'normal people' and because we work 3 weeks straight we then take a week off, it is only this week that he wouldn't see us. He will see us for most of the day, and all night for 21 days of the month. We do not work long hours (7-3pm) and come home every 2 hrs for 20 mins or so, so no worries about him left alone all day. Work is a 20 second walk from our house, which is built next to the lodge. The lodge, and our house is fenced (many people have pets at their lodges) and very safe.

 

As I said my concern was our week off, it wasn't a concern until speaking to the reputed breeder in our area about playstands, and it was he who mentioned another bird might be best with us gone for a week every month. Practically he cannot come with us yet, when he is older and depending on where we are going, then of coruse we can take him as we would the dogs, depending where it was.

 

I'm certainly not entertaining just getting another bird for the sake of it...and I am definitely not looking at giving him to someone else! We are very happy to have him and I think wanting to do the best by him is certainly no reason to be warranting it being suggested we rehome him. I understand he won't be as cuddly as he grows up..is any animal?! I know my horses, dogs, our mongeese, bush squirrel, ducks, and goat certainly havent been. Bear being happy is my concern, hence me calling so many different breeders today for 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions after the views of the first guy.

 

When the most reputed breeder in the area suggests you get him a companion, well although I'm not just going to go out and do it, I of course want other opinions...as I, like you, thought he would just adjust to us being away. I am aware that the breeder may well just want to sell us a bird, and of course as I said previously, I'm very aware that they may not get on, hence my asking for experiences not just doing it. We definitely are not entertaining rehoming him..I think he will have a very good life here and see us a lot more than many pets see their owners, ie we are not out at work all day, or out shopping and things at weekends (the nearest town is 3hrs away.) Bear definitely is getting a lot of love and attention and we are only trying to make him as happy as possible...

[Jayd]

I've reread your post a couple of times, I have to agree wit Dave. [i also have many birds and a couple of Grey's] My concern is leaving him for "A week", my personal opinion, bad idea...Since a Grey is a emotional and thinking bird, a week will give him time to do some "negative thinking". Our Grey's are used to us being gone for 7 or 8 hr's a couple days a week, if we come home to late, they're "bittie, emotional and some what standoffish.[spoiled] You have to do some serious think my friend. You can ask all the people in the world for their option and receive a different one from each, only you can know what is right fin your heart for Bear. Remember, "A Grey is more of a child then a bird".

Jayd

[Dave007]

Well, you're much clearer now. You've added on many more specifics. I'm not a mind reader. The same things weren't said in your original post but as far as your hrs and times away, I did say that I could have been misnderstanding you in that area. You wanted an opinion about another bird and I stated that it was an opinion.

You wanted to hear something from people who had other birds and I told you I did. They're much older and very set in their personalities. I said that you have a good thing going for you because he's a baby. You won't have that kind of luck with mature birds. I gave you an opinion about how 2 birds may or may not get along. That comes from experience.

I didn't say what a breeder's ulterior motives may or not be because yoiu didn't mention that part of it so I simply talked about getting or not getting another bird. I'm familar with different types of parrot breeders. You talked about getting another toy and I gave you an opinion about that. Others here may feel differently. I spoke about bonding and gave and simply told you the truth and others her will agree with that.

I told you about greys' personalities and that's an absolute. I told you that getting another grey may or may not work out. That's also a fact and loads of people here will agree with that both here and other parrot boards. On this board we give out information that's only aimed at each person. Call it *personalized information*

I spoke about game reserves because it may not be healthy for your bird. In that situation, I was only thinking about the bird's health. Why ddid I do that? Because every wild animal whether running or flying around whether loose or in game reserves has fleas and many have fleas and lice. It's a natural thing. I was only thinking about your bird. I didn't say that you were definitel gonna bring your bird outside. So, if there's a misunderstanding here, it only happened by accident.

[Bear]

I think Dave said, unless I missunderstood, that us being away would simply be something Bear would get used to...adjustability?

Bear will meet the staff here so it won't be as though there are complete strangers here looking after him. True he may not worship the ground they walk on, but for company, feeding and getting attention, he certainly wont be going without in our absence. I know people have parrots who go out for 12hrs at a time, every weekday, and the parrot is alone. Then the parrot has his owners all day on the weekend. Bear will never have this, if we are not here, someone else will be, he will never be alone for any great amount of time, and I would hope we can raise a socialised enough bird who will at least tolerate other human company. I'm sure people go on holiday who have parrots, and I can imagine the bird isn't over the moon about it, but surely so long as his existing routine is held to, and he is already secure in his life, it's not the end of the world?

I love all my animals but people still have a life too. I doubt anyone could give bear more attention than we are, unless they didn't work, and well, we do, but I think every afternoon/evening with us, and a few hours during the day is more than enough. I mean people go for nights out, meals, to the cinema and so on, out of the parrots routine, it is not the end of the world for any animal surely.

I agree going away for a week is a long time, hence me contacting breeders for advice...as a responsible concerned owner would. We rescued Bear from some dire, dire conditions and absolutely only have his best interests at heart.

[Dave007]

Well, we've been clearer about things. Opinions frequently clash. Misunderstandings are a way of life especially when typed on a PC. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[Jayd]

I'm not a Grey breeder, Dave is not only a Grey breeder but also has "companion grey'"s, so he's experienced with the psyche and emotions of all Grey's. I believe advice from "a breeder only" would not benefit you as much as from "owners" would. I read some where, I can't remember where, that "if a bird falls, he thinks, I fell". A Grey on the other hand, thinks about what would happen "if he fell". I've heard that to some animals, time is irrelevant. A Grey is much like a human and lives every minute; a week is a long time to be alone for a thinker.There's

gryet people on this forum who care about our companions.

Jayd

[Bear]

Thank you Dave I do appreciate your advice an the points you elaborated upon, just did not expect to be advised to rehome my bird because we take our only days off in the month all at once. Obviously we will not be leaving him any time soon, he is just a baby and we are prepared to sacrifice our days away for him without question, I was simlply trying to think further ahead. And being strongly advised to get another now while he is young prompted me to make this post.

I'm not worried about him living in a game reserve, he is an African Grey living in Africa, born outside a reserve, and will not be mixing with any wild birds or animals. As previously mentioned many people have pets of all kinds here, we even have our own vet.

 

Anyway thanks for the input, I am going to see how he settles over the next few months, I had no intention of rushing out tomorrow and buying another. I just know a lot of people (who are not breeders) have multiple birds, and presumably there is a reason for this, to which I thought might have been the birds best interest (companionship).. I didn't think it was wrong to assume people bought multiple greys/ parrots for the birds sake.

[JillyBeanz]

I don't have any other pets other than Harvey - I couldn't cope! You will find over the next few months how clingy your grey becomes. I owned a cockatiel for 17 years before i purchased Harvey and foolishly probably thought it was about the same level of care and commitment involved. Delusional!!! I never even gave Spiky a second thought when I went away for the weekend - he went to my parents, I didn't give him a second thought when I went away on holiday for 2 - 3 weeks - he went to my parents. The difference being the characteristics of a grey compared to other birds.

 

Now, knowing how clingy Harvey is to me (I'm his personal slave) I was absolutely worried sick about going away on holiday last year. He (like Spiky before him) was going to my parents. Luckily last year they could get him in and out of his cage - he is used to being out when we are home, and I was really happy, receiving photo messages as proof of the fun he was having - but boy, on my return he stuck to me like glue. He had missed me terribly (even though he'd relished in the attention of my parents).

 

Now, this only happens once a year - I just think once a month is too much of a strain on a grey's very sensitive disposition. It really means that you will be leaving him for three months in an annual cycle if you have that week away every month - and I really don't think that Bear will accept this very well.

 

People have multiple parrots for their own sake - their own enjoyment. There are plenty of people who have multiple birds who can't allow them out together as they don't get along - so, there is no guarantee that another bird would help - anyway, it would just be another one to leave. It's done now, you have Bear, so you're just going to have to see what happens. Good Luck!

[lovethatgrey]

Here is my opinion, I don't think it would be fair for Bear to be separate from his " human flock" for a full week, every single month.

Of course I have no clue as to what type of relationship you wish to have with your african grey. I have 2 parrots and although they co-exist peacefully with each other, their companionship isn't a "replacement" or as valuable to them than the time that they spend with their favourite humans. I know my consistent presence and time with them means A LOT to them and has a big influence on our relationship today. I believe that you get what you put into the relationship.

An absence of that duration on a regular basis will definitely have an impact on the personality of your parrot. Not necessarily a positive one either. As for being less cuddly as they the get older. At two years old, Emma is the cuddliest that she's ever been her entire life. I'm pretty sure the reason for this is because of the the time, work and effort we put into her.

[Jayd]

Having read you last post, I understand things a little better. There is no similarity between all your pets you mentioned and a Grey. You need to familiarize your self with our companions a little more. A Grey at this point in your life might be a little to consuming for you. These two sites will help teach you things you need to know about Grey's.

 

http://www.africangreys.com/

http://www.alexfoundation.org/

 

As far as rescuing goes this is something I know well. I hate to relocate birds, but with your time schedule, it might be best to get a bird of lesser demands. Oh, by the way, we haven't had a vacation in years, nor been away more then 9hr's at a time , but their worth it.....

Good Luck to Bear

Jayd

 

Note; With all the foot traffic you mentioned, I don't know if Bear would ever be able to have a "one on one" relationship, which a Grey so dearly need's...It would be more like a zoo!

Edited April 18, 2010 by Jayd

[judygram]

I think one week away every month would be confusing to Bear, yes I have taken one week vacations but it is only once a year, once a month is way too often and Bear being a baby makes it more crucial for every day contact.

 

Of course you have the final say, after all it is your bird but you asked for opinions and here is mine.

[Luvparrots]

I personally believe that if your grey is well adjusted and sees a variety of people before you leave for your week vacation and these people are the ones caring for your grey when you are gone, all will be fine. It really depends on the personality of your grey and how he adjusts to change. Getting another bird for your grey is not the solution because then you might just end up with two lonely birds. Pets are for people not other pets. This is just my opinion. I have two birds. My grey, Ana Grey, is almost 2 years old and is loving and out with me most of the day as I am retired. My eclectus is an older rescued bird who dislikes my grey. They are not buddies. Sully likes only to sit in his cages (I have cages for him throughout the house) where he can see me. He is very set in what he likes and what he dislikes.

[jessdecutie18]

Here's my opinion for Bear:

 

I too have looked into getting another bird, and it is very important to me that my Timneh Yoshi and this new bird at least tolerate each other. I love Yoshi to death and would hate to make her unhappy with the presence of another bird if she just views it as competition for my attention. I know that before I ever do get another bird, there will be a few trips with Yoshi to visit this other bird to watch how they interact together and if they accept each other... it's a complicated thing as you never know whether two birds, even of the same species, will accept each other.

 

As far as you going away for a week: You obviously love this bird and want what is best for it. You even said you could sacrifice a bit of your week off occasionally or bring the bird with you on your excursions. There are some great portable carriers and it's good for a young grey to become accustomed to new situations. If the bird is still getting attention while you are gone from people it is familiar with, I personally think you will be just fine. I'm in the military and leaving Yoshi is something I have to do occasionally, but at least she still has my husband. I left for 3 weeks at the beginning of this year, and was worried as my husband really isn't that interested in Yoshi, but actually with me being gone Yoshi bonded a bit more with my husband. Now they are better friends, although he gets bitten much more than I do. Yoshi is more tolerant of me than my husband. Now we both left Yoshi for a week and a half in December and when we are gone for more than a day she goes back to the breeder we bought her from. They know each other, and Yoshi always seems friendly and happy to see her. I know she gets spoiled there, and cared for properly. When we go to get her she jumps into my arms though and becomes a permanent attachment for a little while We don't go away too often, but I understand your point in that everyone needs time away and I feel confident Yoshi is getting love and attention while I'm away and thats all that matters.

 

Honestly, a week each month is quite a bit... but if you occasionally choose to stay or bring her along... and if she gets love and attention while you are away, then I think you will be just fine Don't get another bird yet, wait for a couple months and see how your baby does. See how she accepts your routine and then judge whether you should add another bird or change your schedule.

 

Hope that helped! I'm no expert, but I do love birds

[Jayd]

A passing note; There's a good chance under your circumstances that if you got a second Grey, they'd bond with each other at some point in time instead of you. As Dave said, Flea's and Lice are of a major concern, They can travel to your Grey on your clothes...Some times a rescue can cause new problem.

Jayd

 

A Grey is a wild animal removed from the wild, bred to be companions or things to show off to some people. They are long removed from being able to take care of themselves but not so long as to forget at times they're still wild...so it's up to us to make sure we protect them. We're the reason they demand all this attention. We removed them from the wild. Jay

Edited April 19, 2010 by Jayd

[Xtreme575]

I can't help but wonder why Bear couldn't travel with you, unless you are going out of the country. There are a number of us here who travel with our birds, with great success! My Grey has a travel cage that is large enough that I don't feel bad having him spend a few days in, ensuring that he gets a lot of time out when I am indoors, or using the harness to give him some freedom when we are outside. I am also planning on adding the Celtei (spelling?) Pak-O-Bird for this summer season.

 

My parents live a good 8 hours away from me, Paco goes with me and loves it. I have yet to find a hotel that has refused me for having a grey with me, I just have to assure them that he will always be caged (I cross my fingers on that promise) and that I will not leave him in the room alone, not a problem, he goes with me.

 

If travelling with you is not an option, then make sure that whoever will be looking after Bear is known (and liked) by Bear and prepare yourself to face that that person may become his "favourite" over you. Greys are one person birds at the best of times, learning to tolerate others only. I also read on here not to leave my bird until I've had him for at least a year, or face breaking the bond that we have built. So, that being said, I've not done a weekend away, dinners/nights out mean that I take the morning off work to ensure that enough time is spent with the bird, the television is on a timer, the lights are on a timer, and I always make sure that I am the one to greet him in the morning.

 

As far as getting a second bird, I agree with Dave and Jayd, I would only get a second bird because I wanted to have a second bird. Earlier, I thought it was a great idea, but as I've noticed the changes in the last few months, I know I can't handle another. Besides, I'm only one person, I wouldn't be able to give two birds the fun experiences out and about as I am able to offer Paco. Also, Dave eludes to ulterior motives for a breeder telling you to get another bird, are they just looking to make a buck off another bird sale? Dave is very respected for his knowledge and experience, as Jayd said, he is both an owner and a breeder, use the advice they are giving you.

 

Private message Judygram and ask her to send you the link that she used to get her travel cage. She and I have the same cage, we are both happy with them, and she too travels with her bird. She always has the best links at the touch of her fingers.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

Ryan