Point Blank Refusal!

[Jayd]

Something we do with all our fids, is to carry them around the house and put them down in different spots, talking to them and telling them about all they can see. We do this a couple times a day so they don't think they're going to the cage each time we pick them up... Maggie

[judygram]

Thats great advice Jay, they do quickly learn that if they are being put back into their cage when you have them step up then no wonder they refuse. This also works for those who have greys or just birds that don't like going into a travel cage because every time they do it means a trip to the vet, take them other places that are fun and they won't associate that travel cage with an unpleasant experience. Shake things up some Jill.

[crossfit]

Okay, so this might sound really weird but I come from California so I can get away with it. Besides, I read it on a respected parrot site:

 

When you go to pick him up, make sure your not thinking about putting him away. Whether they have esp or just can tell from minute body language what we are thinking, if you think instead about something else fun to do with him, it might help.

[JillyBeanz]

crossfit wrote:

Okay, so this might sound really weird but I come from California so I can get away with it.

 

Ha Ha! Very good!!!

 

When Harvey bites me it can be from anywhere in the house - top of a door in the bedroom, windowsill - it's not just when I'm taking him back to his cage - it's when I remove him from anywhere he doesn't want to be removed from. He is so stubborn - I just don't know where he gets it from

 

I'm going to try and move him around, just for the hell of it, with no intention of taking or putting him anywhere and see what happens - thanks for that advice Jay.

 

Also, the ESP - I'm up for trying anything and I will stop thinking about parrot pie etc and think nice things! I'll report back soon. Thanks again everyone :kiss:

[danmcq]

JillyBeanz wrote:

 

While trying the ESP thingy, in your mind, picture a frozen chicken in you fridge.

 

If Harvey picks up on it, he will do ANYTHING you ask. :-):side: :lol:

[JillyBeanz]

danmcq wrote:

While trying the ESP thingy, in your mind, picture a frozen chicken in you fridge.

 

So, after his latest biting mission......He's just flown from the top of the door where he was preening (behind me), landed on my head (which I don't allow), and when I moved my hand up towards him he bit me (incredibly hard).

 

I have just removed him to his cage (receiving numerous bites) for a slight time out session, whilst thinking of those frozen chickens. I have just realised that Harvey isn't stupid. He knows that I am vegetarian and wouldn't be thinking about chickens

 

Seriously though - the biting session has just happened. I am at my wits end by his change in behaviour - which is very sudden :unsure:

[danmcq]

Jill -

 

We went through the same thing with Dayo. We were both at wits end as well when he began biting his love muffin Kim. We even emailed Dave007 about it and the reply was "Swat him away" when he does that in a nutshell.

 

Thats what we did (Not literally hitting him) by shooing him away wit our arms, shaking the head etc. depending on where he was going to land or bite. But, you need to do it before they land or try to bite.

 

It worked, BUT there are ALWAYS those times you MUST get them and just expect they are going to BITE, so fist balled, back of hand, clamp talons and take them away to where you wish to place.

 

This is a Grey once they decide THEY have a brain and WILL use it to chose what THEY want to do and when....

 

I know some peoples Greys are cuddle muffins even after sexual maturity, but I believe that is the EXCEPTION, not the NORM.

[katana600]

Jill, I am so sorry you are the subject of this abuse. One piece of the first aid kit our breeder put together for us has a hard rubber doughnut. She says if you can anticipate a bite and let them bite down hard on it and give that his attention it might spare a finger. With that said, there is something about a surprising bite... as long as it doesn't draw blood, that makes me laugh. When Dayo was pinching Dan's neck, I couldn't stop myself from the mind-picture that would send me into snorts. My day will come and it won't be so darn funny then. Seriously, I am sorry that you are going through this and know you will figure out a way to thwart the little heathen within Harvey.

[Greywings]

His little devil side popped out for a visit, sorry he broke that little trust barricade down kind of innocence lost time. Grey's are so sneaky when they decide to bite you and it hurts more than the area affected it wounds your feeling even more. He is stating his independence and you have no protective feathers to save you. Empathy and sympathy for your progress through the demonic times ahead. He will learn that bites are not appreciated if you cage the little devil and ignore him for a few minutes. Then give him another chance to be good and step up nicely. (You may want to wrap your arm with an ace bandage and a heavy sweater over that when he is in brat mode to avoid injury and not react with drama.) Some of them love the drama of OW and reaction.

[danmcq]

katana600 wrote:

When Dayo was pinching Dan's neck, I couldn't stop myself from the mind-picture that would send me into snorts.

 

Well Dee, I'm glad someone got a good laugh out of Dayo's middle back of the neck pinching days. They have slowed down in frequency, but....... when you take a prized possession away from him, you better duck! Because he can jump up and fly a 180 around you and pinch HARD, faster than you can say EeeeeeeeeeOOOOOOOOOOOuch!!!

[JillyBeanz]

Well, this weekend was no better - and culminated in me opening the front door and letting him fly out! Only joking - but he was so horrible that had I not been the person I am I would have!

 

Yesterday he absolutely refused - to a point where I had him sat on the top of his cage with all the doors off the hall closed so he had nowhere to go and had the perch at his feet. Even gently pushing on his chest got me nowhere - he was firm, steadfast and absolutely refusing to budge. When I did put my hand near him he bit me, and hard. He has perfected the "bite between the web" of my little finger, and even at one point on offering my arm, he bit into that - it is just sheer luck that he didn't take a chunk out of my arm.

 

After 15 minutes of leaving him to stew on top of my bedroom door (the stairs don't have a door so he had access up there) I could hear him chuntering away and went to retrieve him - he stepped up no problem.

 

He is as sweet as sugar cage tonight, regularly stepping up and down, up and down, with no problem! Someone promise me this will be over soon!!!!

 

Seriously though - I really can see why there are so many in the classifieds at this age - people with no resolution or research could readily give up (don't worry, I'm not one of them - we are going to ride this one out!!)!!

[Luvparrots]

Oh they can all be such little stinkers sometimes! When Ana Grey gets into one of her "I'm the Queen" moods, I just snatch her up and put her where I want her giving her a piece of my mind. She seems to know when I have just had it with her and quickly mellows out. I just love it when she tilts her little head and looks like she is really listening to me. They quickly figure us out and can really pull our chain. You just have to figure out how to keep one step ahead of Harvey!

[Spinner]

Jill,

I don't think they ever "get over" doing this. My 18 year old still does it, but rather than bite, he has honed his "grab Dave by the finger and move him elsewhere." While not biting, he is using his beak to let me know this is not what he wants!

 

Although he now knows when it's a must-do. He obliges with a little pinch of the beak just to remind me that he's in control :ohmy:

[JillyBeanz]

18! 18! 18! How reassuring! Just another 16½ years until Harvey just "moves" me about! I am 35, don't dye my hair (no grey ones just yet), but on your reassurance I shall be 53 and bald by the time Harvey just wants to "move" me!!! :laugh:

 

On a slightly better note, since Sunday lunchtime (touch wood) Harvey has been fine. He has let me take him all over the place. I've been removing him from his stand, just for the sheer hell of it, and then putting him back.

 

I'm not getting too giddy though - this will just be the calm before the storm!

 

Thanks again everyone - I'm glad I'm not alone

[judygram]

You are never alone Jill, you have lots of company and you are not the first one to get outwitted by a grey and you will not be the last but he is asserting his will and you need to learn to ride with it and live with it.

 

As you just said he was sweet as sugar one time but then another he just refuses to do what you want him to, you seem like a strong willed person Jill and you may have just met your match.

[katana600]

Jill you really got me with that bit about opening the door and letting him fly out. My eyes were wide with horror and my mouth agape. :ohmy: Then when I realized the joke was on me, if I were close I would have loved to give you a bite too. That Harvey is a trickster and now I am sure where he inherited that. LOL. I hope Harvey is successful in training you soon so you learn to do what he says, then all this messy biting business can be finished. I had my first real bite yesterday and I am officially in training too.

[JillyBeanz]

Ha Ha Dee - I meant it though! Honestly - I was so frustrated I was nearly in tears! Obviously this is something I would never do, but I can see why some feel the need to move them on! I actually had a look in the classifieds (no, I wasn't going to sell him either), just to satisfy my curiosity and the amount of 18 - 24 month old greys who are in there is UNBELIEVABLE.

 

Since Sunday though he has been an absolute angel - even letting me snip a feather under his wing tonight. I'm not bragging just yet though.....:laugh:

[danmcq]

Just to add some encouragement Jill.....Even though they don't change bite wise. They become more entertaining and intellectual as well. So one offsets the other. :-)

[JillyBeanz]

Thanks Dan - this is something that has made me smile. You are right that the joys outweigh the dramas and I really must focus on those at the moment. I knew the biting would come, I knew I would find it hard (I can't stand rejection, no matter what the situation)and I just felt an absolute failure

 

I think I shall take myself away from the situation and leave him to cool down, and not fight with him (I am very bloody minded too - and like Judy said I am very strong willed and therefore this is probably my downfall too).

 

Fingers crossed I don't taste too good this week and he moves onto something else

[judygram]

Yep, when you get two strong willed individuals together the fur flies and usually someone loses so ease up Jill and Harvey may lighten up too.

[JillyBeanz]

Well, I have now decided that I have an incredibly over-clever CAG. Mine knows the days of the week!

 

Last Sunday was the last time Harvey bit me, or refused to step up. He has been an absolute angel all week.....until yesterday. It seems Harvey knows that Saturday and Sunday is the weekend - and this is when he can assert his authority.

 

I was going out yesterday and went through the same routine and sustained a couple of real bites. He's doing the same this morning. I needed to pop out and asked him to step up - he bit me and actually held on, so now I have a couple of nice deep purple marks on my hands. Let's see what Monday brings!

[danmcq]

JillyBeanz wrote:

I was going out yesterday and went through the same routine and sustained a couple of real bites.

 

Thats your mistake. You must "Change Up" on them constantly so they do not know what's coming.

 

Your right, they are highly clever and once you've tricked them once, they remember and don't fall for it a second or perhaps third time.

 

Always praise them for going back in the cage even if they bit the crap out of you. Give them a treat like a small portion of fruit or nuts they love to show returning is not a bad thing. Once they think getting returned to the cage is a bad experience, it will always be a fight.

 

I'm not saying I have Dayo looking forward to being caged every time, but the flesh ripping bites have almost stopped with just very hard clamp downs as a sign he's not happy, but likes the treat and praise once in the cage.

 

BTW - Once he's clamped down like that on your finger. Twirl him around like a key chain.... BIG FUN for both.

[katana600]

Harvey may just be trying to train you to be more efficient Jill, get your errands done during the week while you are already out and dote only on him on the weekend. It might take a while, but I have high hopes that you are trainable. In all seriousness though, I am sorry he has resorted to biting, I just got a pinch last week and am still bruised. While I wish it never happens again, I would only be kidding myself and I don't look forward to it in the future. Dan is right about changing things often to keep our greys wondering what we are up to. Good luck with that.