Senegal problems

[Suzzique]

I am having some major problems with aggresion with Martini. I am already the primary care giver. I do everything feed, cage cleaning, new toys ect. He has always been cage aggresive and I learned to work around that. He is cage aggresive with my husband and son as well. All the aggression is directed at me and only me. He was not to bad when we first got him and we were teaching him to fly. But as he has settled in more the aggression has gotten worse. I know that I will never be able to handle him like my youngest daughter does. He LOVES her. She can do anything with him and he doesn't care. She can also pick him up and put him down on his cage and mess with stuff in his cage with no problems. He is nice to my son and husband and totally enjoys it when my older daughter and her partner come over. He flys right over to them for hello's and head scraches.

 

I think that I maybe the rivil. He will fly over to me when I'm sitting on the couch and sit with me. He use to mostly just sit there and sometimes growl at me. Last week I was sitting on the couch reading. He was sitting on me I hadn't moved, none of the other animals in the room Alex hadn't moved. One second he was fine and the next he attacked me and bit threw my fingernail into the fingernail bed. My daughter emeditly got him told him he was bad and locked him in his cage. Concidering the time of year and the fact that he is 4 1/2 years it could be hormones. But I still need some help as to what to do. I've heard lots of just clip his wings and everything will be good. I don't for one minute beleave that. The fact that he can fly just means he can get to me easier not that it has made him more aggresive. I no longer trust him at all. While this is not the first case of totally unprovoked aggression it was the worst bit.

[Joolesgreyuk]

Hi Suzzique, First let me just say OMG I do sympathise and the reason for this is that I've very much been in your shoes, to a certain extent I still am!

 

I don't have or ever have had a senegal but most parrots have similar traits some are just worse than others. My hahn's macaw has behaved in a similar manor and I am working hard to "mellow" him but there are no hard & fast rules nor guarantees. Your daughter appears to be his favourite and I know how it feels to be the one who feeds, cleans etc. and be considered the enemy but they all have one favourite in the household whom they seem to love above all others, even so there is no reason why you can't have a relationship with Martini even if it isn't as strong as the relationship he has with your daughter.

 

Any friendship you try to forge with Martini should be done when you are alone with him and when your daughter (and others he has taken to) are around It's best to try to stay in the background as much as possible. Don't allow him to sit on you at all, you are just inviting him to attack when he feels like it. Chances are he is hormonal and/or territorial but you are spot-on with what you say about clipping. I have considered it myself and I will do so but only after I have explored all other avenues.

 

My advice is to start training him when he is inside his cage and you are alone, speak softly to him and keep offering treats. Learn to read his body language, all parrots' body language differs, my hahns shuffles uneasily back and forth when nervous but my grey's body language is completely different! You will have to build up a trust with Martini but it won't happen overnight and you will have to be patient. Good luck

[Suzzique]

We have had Martini for a year and a half. I have done all of that kind of thing. I can not work with Martini in his cage because he is cage aggresive. I can no longer allow him to sit with me because of his aggresion to me. I in no way expect to have the kind of relationship that my daughter has with him. I just need different suggestions to try. I already do 95% of everything for him this includes the giving of treats.

 

I will not under any sercomstances take flight away from him again. He came to us clipped. It took us months of building up his wing muscles before he could even try short hops. Now a year and a half later he is almost as good as Alex. I know nothing happens overnight.

[Joolesgreyuk]

Have you tried talking to a behaviourist?

[Suzzique]

I know a behaviorist from another forum but she hadn't been on in a while. I had misplaced her email but finally found it this morning. I have emailed her and am now waiting to hear back.

 

That doesn't mean that others who know alot about the kind of bird that I'm dealing with wont have new suggestions as well.

 

While there are a lot of general things that you can do with all birds to deal with behaviore problems. However each type of bird has it's own quarks and responds better to one way of doing something than to another way.

 

I can give lots of tips ect that are all general but might not nessicarlly be what someone needs for thier type of bird.

[JillyBeanz]

Well, if anyone can sympathise with you Suzzique it is Julie! Julie's been through a great deal with Argyle - and although, as you say, they are different birds - the general consensus for "training" is similar.

 

I had a cockatiel (yip, another different bird) who was "cage aggressive" - actually, he was just downright aggressive! If I went near him he was in attack mode! I found, like Julie describes, if I sat near him (and it sometimes did take an hour) that he would calm, and sometimes (not always though) would let me touch his head. This comes from a bird whom I had to handle to take him to the AV once who took half my thumb tip away!!

 

To be honest, in the end I gave in - he was happy to be in his cage and just be fed and watered! Perhaps this is a failing on my behalf - I had 17 years to overcome his aggression, but never did - but it was an acceptance on both our parts - he just didn't want to be that loving creature I wished him to be

[Suzzique]

Yes I know that a lot of the training is similar. I am in no way new to birds. I've had birds for about 11 years. I've had Martini for a year and a half. We have had for the most part an uneasy understanding. I am fine with that. All the regular general training ect is no longer working. I need new ideas to try with him.

 

I don't want to hear clip his wings and everything will be fine. I hear that every time I take him to have his nails done. And no it wont be fine because that would mean I would have to be more hands on with him and he has made it clear he doesn't want that. Sitting on me while I'm sitting on the couch is fine (his idea not mine) but he doesn't want head scratches or anything else from me. I am fine with this.

 

I really beleave that a lot of the extra aggresion that I've had from him recently is hormonal. So I need new ways of dealing with him when he gets like this.

 

I do apprecate that Julie and others that have had to deal with aggresive birds can totally sympathise with what I'm dealing with.

 

I am sorry if I seem a bit grumpy. I just keep getting offered the same advice even after I've stated that I am already doing all of that. It is all just very frustrating.

[tlc96093]

Oh boy!!! do I KNOW first hand (haha)what you mean!!! We took in a Meyers that was 8+yrs old, 1 1/2 yrs ago,today he is 10yrs, from a family who had 2 other birds, Mickey was youngest. I also have a Grey and tiel, but after reading book "Guide to the Senegal Parrot and its Family" by Athan and Deter, my understanding grew tremendously! Have learned NEVER touch ANYTHING or take attention from bird while near me, happy to say gone 3 mos without blood. My husband refused to let bird near him after horrible bite, until last month and no bites. I keep a towel next to my chair to put on my lap and that is how I transport bird back to cage. Yes, I clip wings, noticed it makes no difference in attitude like it does with the other two. Good luck and read that book

[Suzzique]

I heard back from my behaviourist friend. What I have is a bully. Here is what she said.

 

Sooooo he gets along with everyone except you??? If so you are dealing with a bully!!!! If that is the case you have two options....

 

1) trick training works wonders!!!!!! it will help you to build a working relationship with him. It is obvious that he sees you as a rival. So if you change the dynamics of the relationship, you will alter how he sees you. Trick training turns emotional bonds into working bonds which is healthier. A working bond gives him the chance to use his brain and be rewarded for it. Instead of using his hormones and bitting. Once he establishes a working bond he will no longer see you as a threat.

 

2) establish dominance, show him that you will not take any of his crap. if he bites at dinner, than he spends dinner in the cage. If he bites you when no one is around than he is not allowed out when you are alone, and so on......

 

the second option will work depending on the bird, some birds learn very quickly and readjust their actions, others are too pig headed to get it, and it will make the problem worse. I suggest trick training, but have more often then not used the second method. Sometimes you need to establish the dominance first and trick train second. It all depends on the bird.

 

A parrot has the right not to like you, but that does not mean they have the right to abuse you. What needs to change is your behavior, not his. Both options do this. It will jsut be a matter of which works best for him. Maybe some combo of the two????

 

So sense we already do the second option I am going with the first. I had already odered some hemp seeds to try and work with Alex. So I will now just work with both of them. The hemp seeds came yesterday and I went and got a clicker. Someone on this forum suggested a yahoo group for bird clicker training that I am going to go and check out. I will keep everyone posted on how it goes.

[Dave007]

You can try many suggestions that are offered but there's one important thing you should keep in the back of your mind. It has to do with preowned birds.

 

In one home a bird may be naturally sweet. It their normal behavior.

When the bird goes to another home the bird may become aggressive for many different reasons but the main reason is change. As time goes on, that same bird may eventually go back to being sweet again. Basically, the bird's natural personality comes back even though it takes a long time.

When a bird is naturally aggressive, all of the above may happen except in reverse order. All of this also takes a while. You really have no idea who was the favorite, if he had a favorite, or did he change his natural habits in the past.

So, keep in mind that your bird may simply not like you and as far as teaching tricks, that can only be done with a bird that likes you and is receptive to you. That's like putting the horse before the cart.

I tell you these things just so that you can be prepared to deal with another phase of a parrot's personality which may be disagreeable and unpleasent for you.

[Suzzique]

Thanks Dave,

 

Martini came from a good home. And over the last year and a half we have seen more and more of Martini's personality come out. It is so cool to see. He went from being a very quit almost timid bird to one who is bold as brass. He use to run from Alex now he stands up to him. He joins in the morning "singing". He has started talking when totally by himself (closet talker). He goes to the playstand to play. He goes and eats Alex's food out of his cage and plays with Alex's cage toys.

 

Martini has far more freedom than he did in his old home. He came to us clipped. We built up his wing musles and tought him how to fly. We worked with him getting him to eat with the family at dinner time. His old home wasn't bad just very different from how we do things.

 

I truely am dealing with a bully. He likes and gets along with everyone else in the family. He can be nice to me when he feels like it. He does come and sit with me when I'm in the living room sitting on the couch. He does this all on his own. He is not interested in head scraches ect from me which is fine. He does take treats from my hand without bitting me.

 

When we take him out of the living room and into other parts of the house he is less likely to bit me. So working on tricks will happen in the office. I am not expecting mericals. Those have already happened.

[katana600]

We also have a member of the poicephalus family, a red-bellied parrot. Java is about the same age as Martini. She has been in our home since she was about four months old and we have gone through some of what you are describing. One thing that helps tremendously with her was to establish a sleep cage separate from her day cage. We give her an almond every night when she goes to her roost cage and she actually will ask to go to bed. She is much more likely to attack my husband or one daughter, but we found that after establishing our bedroom as her territory, she is much nicer in the rest of the house. We gave her a much smaller and less occupied space to call her own and she guards it but then is sweet everywhere else. I really have a lot of admiration for your bravery and determination to keep trying after Martini has hurt you, that is hard to do, my husband is in the same boat and he is working to assert himself where Java is concerned.

[katana600]

When our daughter came home from college Java was seeking her out and attacking her, trying to drive an intruder out of her territory. Kelsey was afraid of her, for good reason. When the next school break was imminent, Java's vet smoothed off just the tip of her razor sharp beak and we set about working together to let her know it was not okay to be a bully. One thing that changed the dynamic was for all of us to go to the family room in the basement but to leave Java alone upstairs in the living room in her cage. After a few minutes, Kelsey would come into the room and "rescue" her and bring her down to join us. At dinner Kelsey would be the one to offer some of her food to Java in the cage. Now she will let Kelsey to scratch her head and cuddle with her after she has been home a couple of days from college.

[Suzzique]

It would be great if we had the room to let him have a sleep cage but we just don't have it.

 

In my case I'm the only one that gets picked on. He likes and is nice to everyone else in the family. I am already the primary care giver so no help there.

 

The clicker training is slow going. I'm not going to give up we will get there. Once breeding season is over things might go more smoothly.

[katana600]

I am really glad that you have the patience to keep trying. We went through quite a while trying to figure out what works and you have a great attitude about it and will get it sorted. My best to you while you find new ways to outsmart your little Martini.