Argyle's Training

[Joolesgreyuk]

Well just thought I'd keep everyone up-to-date with the training (or lack of it lol) which has been delayed due to a few reasons. I wanted to get it right in my head before starting, Greg suggested Steve begin the training as he is the favoured one and tbh Steve isn't that bothered as the parrots are mine and my responsibility. Also I wanted to start with the right method and the right treats to get it right.

 

We tried this morning, I really needed to get Argyle out of his cage in order to give it a good wash & scrub-out, well my feeling is that Argyle is territorial and really has never been that bothered about coming out. Steve tried to entice him out with tiny pieces of the bread he loves and a clicker, he wasn't having any of it but took one piece placed near him on the door, unfortunately he wasn't about to come out any further not for love nor money (nor bread lol) and was really quite vicious when Steve tried to get near him with more bread, even attacking the small plate in Steve's hand. We are going to persevere, training daily (whenever possible depending on Steve's shift) and get him used to the clicker, also I'm going to get some different treats, maybe some pringles - I know, I don't normally offer junk food to my fids but I think Argyle was fed these in his old house and if it works it will be worth it.

 

Anyway, I think I will give regular updates on his training if there is progress, if there is none I won't bother LOL

[judygram]

I'm sorry to hear it didn't go too well this morning but hope springs eternal they say, maybe in time it will work better, the thing is not to give up and I know you won't Jules, you know as well as everyone else here that it takes time and patience so don't judge the whole process by one day's accomplishment or lack of.

 

Please do keep us informed but I think you may have progress to report soon, thats a gut feeling. :cheer:

[Dave007]

Clicker training is only used with birds that are easily handled, immensely enjoy being handled outside of the cage and like to come out often and enjoy being with people all the time. It's used for training a bird to go from one place to another.Using a clicker to coax a bird out of a cage isn't gonna work and many times, an extra object such as a clicker will actually hamper the bird from coming out of the cage because of fear nor is it written anywhere that a clicker should be used to coax a bird out of the cage wghen it doesn't want to.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2010/02/07 19:45

[Joolesgreyuk]

I don't really see what difference it makes Dave, he doesn't see it and it's just a (quiet) sound he can accociate with getting a treat.

[Dave007]

I don't think a bird has to be trained to take a treat, at least that applies to birds I've dealt with. I've never had to do anything to give a bird a treat.

 

But if you wanna use it then do it.

[judygram]

I don't know anything about clicker training so maybe I should say nothing but maybe she could use the treat to entice him out of his cage and then use the clicker for further training.

[Joolesgreyuk]

Thanks for the advice Dave I appreciate it. Today was the first day of training and I didn't expect much if I'm honest. Argyle doesn't need a clicker to put him off coming out of his cage, he is never that interested in coming out - far too territorial of his cage to want to leave it but I take on board your advice and if I find the clicker isn't helping I will drop it.

[Dave007]

If my birds even slightly hear me shuffling a bag around that may have treats in it or just moving things around any area that has treats near that area or me being in the kitchen chopping up some food they like, they're all flying over to me or the counter top trying to get to all those things first. Each wants his own piece and won't leave until they get it. That also applies to my wife because they do it to her too. Even my quakers do that at the same time. For me, it wouldn't be possible for me to clicker train them to NOT come over. I would have to lock them up in their cages so they wouldn't be such pains in the ass.

[judygram]

Sounds like you have your birds spoiled rotten Dave, no sneaking into the kitchen for a snack unless you want to share it with all the birds, funny how you describe it as a pain in the ass.

[crossfit]

Clicker training is only used with birds that are easily handled, immensely enjoy being handled outside of the cage and like to come out often and enjoy being with people all the time. It's used for training a bird to go from one place to another.Using a clicker to coax a bird out of a cage isn't gonna work and many times, an extra object such as a clicker will actually hamper the bird from coming out of the cage because of fear nor is it written anywhere that a clicker should be used to coax a bird out of the cage wghen it doesn't want to

 

I wanted to clarify a bit here.

 

Clicker training can be used with any animal (even humans). However, to do it well you first need to teach the creature that the click means something - in this case that a treat will be on its way very soon. You can certainly use the clicker to train the bird to leave the cage. However only once the bird knows what the clicker means.

 

I am unclear if you have already trained your bird to know that the click=treat. It sounded in the first post as if you are trying to teach your parrot that the click means treat at the same time as you are teaching it that the click/treat is a response to coming out of its cage when requested. If your bird already knows that a click means treat - ignore the rest of this. If not, you need to back up a few steps. That is what Dave is trying to say (I think).

 

To effectively use clicker training, you first need to have the bird out of the cage and just click and give it a treat immediately. Only that. Or even do it in the cage. But there should not be another behaviour "paired" with it initially. I have only used this for dogs and cats (and my kids without the actually clicker - don't tell). My baby parrot has not yet come home to live. I am told that parrots can learn in a single session that the treat comes immediately after the click. Other species can learn fast as well but generally a bit slower.

 

Basically what you are doing is teaching your bird that "click" means "good job". You can use other reinforcers besides a click but clicker trainers feel that the click is much easier to time right at the hoped for behaviour later on, when you move to using it as a training tool. There are excellent parrot trainers who don't use clickers but use the same concepts just as a side note.

 

So, how do you get the bird out of the cage to clean it? I don't know right now. But once the click/treat response has been established, then you only click and treat at certain times. I would assume you would want to approximate the behaviour at first by which I mean, you might click/treat when your bird walks near the door. Then when that is consistant, only click when the bird perches in the open door, finally usually after a few sessions, you would click/treat only when the bird comes through the door and steps up.

 

Dave's comment is right on but not really fully an explanation. I think what he is pointing out is that you are really using a treat to lure the bird out right now and just adding a click. That isn't the same as clicker training. With clicker, you would wait to show the treat until the bird stepped towards the entrance, then click, then treat. By offering the treat first, you are confusing the click then treat response for your bird.

 

I hope this helps clarify. Again, if I misunderstood, sorry for the long post.

[Joolesgreyuk]

Thanks for to everyone's response. What we are actually trying to do is teach click = treat, first whilst Argyle is sat on his door (it's an open-out door you can place treats on) and continuing this in a gradual way further and further from his cage to entice him further from it. The clicker is only being used to signify a treat is coming, we are not trying to teach him anything more avanced than that. He has come out of his cage occasionally before (so I know he will if he wants to badly enough) but really isn't that bothered, hopefully he will be bothered when a treat is placed further from his cage and he realises he will have to come out further in order to get it.

 

Teaching step-up is not an option at this stage, even using a perch to try this is no use, he will just walk up the perch and lunge at the hand holding it. Even the special perches you can buy with the perspex shield would be no use, he will just lunge towards the hand holding it underneath. What we are trying to do is get him to realise that a hand brings treats and get him used to hands that way, step-up should come later.

 

When I type this I realise just how much work we have, Argyle sounds so wild but at times he can be tame(ish) since we've had him (6 months) he has been out of his cage on occasions, flown on to Steve or me and sat preening but when the mood takes him he will attack the face/neck/ears therefore we just cannot risk allowing him to fly onto us. I'm not expecting to acheive miracles here, I just want him to come out of his cage daily for a couple of hours and sit on the playstand or elsewhere whilst I clean his cage, perches and so on. I don't like the thought of him being cage-bound.

 

If all else fails and as a last resort a light clip might balance the power in our favour because atm Argyle is boss! Sorry for the long-winded post lol.

[pearllyn]

You really sound like you have your work cut out Julie! I think at this stage you're willing to try anything?

Good luck with Argyle - I hope you see at least some progress soon.