What do you feel is Safe/ Unsafe to feed Parrots

[Luvparrots]

This is a great thread, guys!!! Certainly answering some questions for all of us!!!

[danmcq]

No Problem Jay. :-)

 

Thanks for clarifying that to all.

 

I think we already know most people do not feed their greys whole apples, avocados, garlic, onions etc.

 

I believe some even view feeding seed mixes as near "Poison" to birds and feed only pellets due tho the "Pellet Companies" advertising and getting vets to buy into it and resell them at a profit....I know, may maybe that will get some REAL data coming in. ;-)

You put it very short and sweet, "why" needs to be answered. That should be answered with concrete data, not hear-say. I believe that was the intent of your starting this thread. :-)

[Joolesgreyuk]

I'm glad you touched on seed mixes Dan, on another forum I frequent they did a survey to find out what most members feed their fids, the survey included seed mixes and pellet mixes, tidymix came in top by quite a big margin. Tidymix is seed-based but it is superior to most in that sunflower seeds are minimal, about 10% but this mix has some great additions incl. banana, papaya + several other fruits, peanuts + other nuts, pulses, oats, wheat, barley, chillies - the list is endless, it is relatively inexpensive and is a good alternative to pellets and given by many rescue centres. I don't like the way seed mixes are dismissed by some, everything in moderation.

 

I am a firm believer in variety, I offer the tidymix and a pellet mix. I have tried Harrisons and am atm giving Zupreem wild & Spicy because I have heard that spicy foods have a calming affect on the birds - not sure how true this is lol. My fids also like their daily piece of toast and a piece of biscuit before bedtime LOL. They also have fresh fruit or vegetables daily. Beau has scrambled egg weekly (Argyle doesn't like egg) chicken & cheese are given occasionally. Neither of my birds are huge nut eaters but both like peanuts. In the wild our babies would be enjoying a huge variety of foods which is why I believe the wider variety you can give the better it is for them.

[pearllyn]

judygram wrote:

pearllyn wrote:

An interesting thread no doubt, but if there is even a slight chance of a food being toxic it goes nowhere near Alfie. I'm not at all interested in the debate on wether or not something is actually toxic or just suspected to be so - I'll not be testing the theory!!:laugh: :laugh:

 

Me either Lyn but the debate is interesting to read, .

 

Just to clarify - I didn't mean that I'm not interested in this debate/thread, I just meant that if something has a question over wether it really is bad, or might it be ok, I wouldn't consider taking it off my "don't even think about it" list! If there is enough of a doubt to put it on my list in the first place, that's good enough for me!

 

I'm enjoying the Thread Jay - and it's an excellent reference for what is good or not for our birds. I've always steered well clear of apple pips - so there you are!!

[Jayd]

Pearllyn, Your posts are always good, luv them. Point well taken Joolesgreyuk, I also feel as you do, we feed all our fid "Zupreem" and a seed mix, the one we use is "Volksman no sun" as the name suggest, no sunflower seeds. One thing we do, is prepare a lot of different veggies and fruits and foods. I'll do a separate post on our "Fid's Feed". Jay

 

Note:I've tried Harrison's 3 times this year alone at great expense on all our birds, no luck...

 

Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/02/09 05:04<br><br>Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/02/09 05:09

[Xtreme575]

Well, I won't be testing anything on Paco... I have to admit, I did give him a whole apple once for the fun of it (for him). It might have been, but it wasn't fun for me! There was apple from hell to breakfast in about 15 minutes. I can't say whether or not he got a seed, but I sure learned to not do that again! I was picking his homeade applesauce of the walls, the furniture, it was everywhere! Now he gets apples slices (no seeds)well processed through my new fav gizmo the Slapchop!

 

Spock and Dan, thanks for the info on the apple cider vinegar, I didn't know about that, interesting article. I'm going to have to pick some up, I just threw a big bottle out that I had bought to "rebalance" my acid levels. I was having problems with heartburn and heard that the vinegar would help, it didn't, actually, it did the obvious for me, and I hated the taste. This is always a good sign, Paco and I do not agree on any foods! He lives veggies I don't, and vice versa.

[Xtreme575]

By the way, I'm loving this thread, I'm learning a lot from it. A point that my vet made to me regarding the importance of a very varied diet is if something becomes unavailable at any time, for any reason, ie. your parrot only eats a certain brand of pellet and that pellet becomes unavailable, can he subsist on the different veg that you feed him... I've really been trying to find all sorts of stuff that Paco will eat and making note of it.

 

One thing he will not eat at all, seed mixes! I keep trying, but he has no interest at all. I also use sunflower seeds for training, he loves to crack open the seeds, let the seed drop, followed by the shell and then enthusastically looks for more tricks.

 

Mushrooms! I know mushrooms are a no-no and I've read that that is because they are fungus, so? Can anyone explain that to me? I made the mistake once at the beginning of my cohabitation with Paco, but he wasn't interested anyway.

 

Ryan

[Joolesgreyuk]

Something I touched on earlier and I would like some opinions on is hot & spicy foods such as chillies, do they actually calm birds or is someone pulling my leg?

[ramsabi]

I went through this thread with great interest and I have a few questions:

 

1. One basic question is - will birds actually eat food that is fatal or deadly to them? Does this happen in the wild? Is it learned memory in the wild - the lessons of foods to avoid being passed down through generations? That might mean that birds bred in captivity do not have the flock's memory and knowledge bank and WILL eat food known to be toxic if offered.

 

2. This post started off as "Fact Finding". But no concrete facts have still emerged? Apple Seed, Garlic, Onion...... - yes we have learnt that most people do not give them, but is their research and evidence to demonstrate that these are fatal/toxic/detrimental? If so in what quantities? Could a small amount of say garlic in the diet in fact be beneficial?

 

I will be following this thread with great interest.

 

I just read the Subject of the post and it says 'What you feel.....

 

An unintended slip Jayd ? :)

 

Post edited by: ramsabi, at: 2010/02/09 14:30<br><br>Post edited by: ramsabi, at: 2010/02/09 14:31

[danmcq]

Ramsabi,

 

Answer to question 1 - Yes, any critter will eat something they think tastes great, even if it is poisonous. They of course do not know it is poison

 

Answer to #2 - I am not certain what you call "facts", but I have posted several from scientific sources. If you mean actual data like how many apple seeds would it take to kill a Grey, well they would need to kill a Grey to test this. Which I hope no scientific lab does so.

 

In regards apple seeds. Of all the seed or pit fruits. The apple seed actually has the least amount of cyanide it.

[ramsabi]

Thanks Dan,

 

My question is does it happen in the wild too? Do wild birds eat food that is toxic to them even if it tsetes great?

 

I have not referred to apple seeds alone. I was talking in general about foods that we "feel" are toxic.

 

I did not think that there is any other meaning to the word "facts" other than "facts". I too hope no scientific lab kills greys or any other living creature but the sad fact is that it is regular practice. Could not there be at least anecdotal evidence that - "yes, my bird ate apple seed and died and the autopsy revealed cyanide poisoning". That would be a "fact".

 

I was not referring to any specific post. I was commenting on the general trend of the post.

 

 

There was no intention to criticise or to question. Only an interest to learn more "facts".

[danmcq]

Almonds - Do you feed this Cyanide poison laden item to your FID or eat them yourself?

 

Well, we all know we do. You can rest in peace knowing science solved this problem.

 

Most countries outlawed the sale of "Raw" Almonds.

 

Almonds are not actually a "Nut", but a seed from a Pit.

 

All Almonds you purchase whether in the shell or not are "Heat Treated". This process removes the Cyanide from the seed.

 

People purchasing Almonds in countries that have not outlawed the sale of uncooked Almonds must ensure they have been heat treated before eating them their selves or giving them to your birds.

[danmcq]

Ramsabi - I didn't take any offense. Just stated facts. :-)

 

Yes, birds in the wild will eat poisonous plants an items. What they have going for them, that our house birds do not, is the daily ingestion of "Clay" that coats their digestive system and absorbs these poisons and basically lets the "healthy" portion of the food item get digested.

 

Their is no scientific data on X number of apple seeds would kill a human, bird etc. It is proportional to body weight.

 

All the scientific data states it would take a lot of apple seeds ingested at once to reach toxic levels. They also state before ever reaching that level, critters and people would start experiencing bloat and other stomach issues which would stop them from eating so much the cyanide would kill them.

 

I doubt anyone on his forum or any where else can state their grey ate X number of seeds then died.

[ramsabi]

(Prunus amygdalus dulcis) Sweet Almond

 

Prunus amygdalus var. amara Bitter Almond

 

The fundamental difference between bitter and sweet almond is the presence of amygdalin. Sweet almond does not contain amygdalin and can be eaten safely. Amygdalin also exists in the seeds of apricots, cherries, and plums.

 

There is a law passed in 2007 in the USA that requires almonds to be pasteurised. Interestingly the law has nothing to do with cyanide but to the fact that there were two instances of salmonella poisoning in 2001 and 2004 that were traced to almonds. This law applies to sweet almonds.

 

Although the toxicity of prussic acid in bitter almonds is destroyed when the nuts are heated, the sale of bitter almonds in prohibited in the United States.

 

Sweet almonds are, by centuries of cultivation and breeding, very low in amygdalin and, thus, harmless; however, even sweet almond trees sometimes yield single bitter almonds (up to 1% of total crop), and some sweet almond cultivars still contain traces of bitter almond aroma. This does not apply to Californian almonds, which can be regarded totally destitute of amygdalin.

[ramsabi]

Thanks Dan. I am not asking for the number of seeds. As I asked are there recorded cases of birds/animals known to have had apple seeds or any other seed known to contain Amygdalin in their diets dying and an autopsy has revealed cyanide poisoning?<br><br>Post edited by: ramsabi, at: 2010/02/09 16:22

[JillyBeanz]

ramsabi wrote:

I too hope no scientific lab kills greys or any other living creature but the sad fact is that it is regular practice.

 

I have read this discussion with deep interest, and knew the subject of animal testing would arise if the thread kept momentum.

 

Animal testing laboratories worldwide do not publish their data. You won't find it on the internet, in books or in press cuttings. The only data they release is the last "10 minutes" of the group testing where they find the "cure". They don't ever tell you what has gone on in the 20 years before they reached this point.

 

But, taking this into account - they don't "practice" (for example) the art of force feeding apple pips to parrots to see how many they can take before they die due to cyanide poisoning. Medical laboratories "bring on" diseases in the animals and then strive to create a solution to man-held diseases.

 

I follow any direction given, and I am a sheep (guided by this forum) - I used to give Harvey peanuts regularly - he loves peeling them, but then read about aspergillosis - he doesn't get these anymore. So, are these part of the harmful group too, or am I being over-cautious?

 

PS. I am not a mad, animal rights protester - I just might have had some dealings with laboratories in the past

 

PPS. I am thoroughly enjoying the interaction and data provided in this thread and looking forward to learning a little more about what and especially why these things aren't recommended.

[Joolesgreyuk]

Jill, I still give peanuts to my birds mainly because they aren't that into nuts except for peanuts. Having said this I always check them first and never give them in their shell because that is where bad ones can lurk undetected.

 

I think we are a slightly paranoid parrot owners on this forum but better to be safe than sorry.

[danmcq]

A note on aspergillus.

 

How do birds catch aspergillus?

 

Birds catch aspergillus when they consume moldy feed or sift through moldy litter and vegetation with their beaks and bills, inhaling the spores.

 

Pet birds and domestic birds are at risk if their feed or litter has been stored in a warm damp place where the fungus can begin to grow. Wild birds sometimes die in huge numbers when flocks feed on moldy grain, particularly corn, or on other damp and moldy food sources in the wild. Water birds and scavengers are often victims of the disease.

 

Eggs laid in moldy litter can become infected when the fungus penetrates the eggshell and begins to grow on the inner membrane. Some chicks hatch with fungal infections already established. Others pick up the fungus as they break out of the egg.

 

Birds that are very old, very young, or suffering from other health problems are more susceptible to aspergillosis than most birds. Stressed birds are also at greater risk—birds that are having difficulty in the wild, birds that have recently been caged, and pet birds that are not well cared for and kept in poor conditions. The disease is not passed from bird to bird.

 

Peanuts are a "Possible" source, but unlikey if human grade and cooked in the shell. Then kept in dry storage, low humdity once you open the package.

 

Shelled Peanuts of course that have been roasted are fine as well.

 

I give Dayo Peanuts in the shell and shelled.

[danmcq]

California Almonds:

 

The Almond Board of California, which oversees virtually 100 percent of the almonds grown and consumed in the United States and Canada, is now implementing plans to pasteurize all almonds at temperatures up to 158 degrees (F) and yet have them intentionally and falsely labeled as "raw." The decision was made following the 2001 and 2004 outbreaks of salmonella in almonds, and is based on the intention of the Almond Board of California to provide a "safe, nutritious product to consumers" but not, it seems, an accurately labeled food product to consumers.

 

Although it seems unthinkable to anyone familiar with the fundamentals of nutrition, the Almond Board fails to recognize any distinction between raw almonds and cooked almonds. In statements received by NaturalNews, the Almond Board explained that, "raw almonds that have been pasteurized do not differ in any significant way from untreated raw almonds."

 

Except, of course, for the fact that they are dead. Stating that live, raw almonds are the same as dead, cooked almonds is equivalent to stating that a living human being is the same as a corpse.

 

Raw foods are widely understood by virtually the entire food community to mean food items kept below 108 degrees (F), beyond which the living enzymes in foods are destroyed. Pasteurization, in contrast, exposes foods to temperatures of up to 158 degrees for durations up to 30 minutes. (Faster "flash" pasteurization can involve much higher temperatures for shorter durations: 280 degrees (F) for two seconds, for example.) NaturalNews does not know the precise temperature that will be used for pasteurizing almonds, but it will without question be a temperature higher than 108 degrees (F), which means the almonds can no longer be considered raw by any reasonable person familiar with the definition of raw.

[Jayd]

Greetings, sorry I jumped on-line late today, had fids to take care of..Don't you just luv it? You people are fantastic, I myself have learned so much and hope to continue to do so from this thread...No answer or question to to short or to long.

I just read the Subject of the post and it says 'What you feel.....

Ramsabi wrote: An unintended slip Jayd ? Ramsabi, what I wrote is what I intended to say, many times during this thread I've amended or added questions the same as others have, isn't it great...Ramsabi my friend, there's so many questions that this thread can bring forth, lets bring them, lets learn...

What Dan says about temperature killing above 108 degrees is my main concern about a pellet only diet. Pellets are processed at high temperatures, it must damage some of the ingredients..Any answers?

Dan, thanks for this info we can trust and learn from.

Jay

 

Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/02/09 21:48<br><br>Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/02/09 22:24

[Jayd]

B) Ok, a thought, say we know apple seed contain cyanide, does the fertilizer, and pesticides they use to grow the apples contribute any new or extra dangers that might complicate the problem?

Jay

Note: This means all foods were discussing...<br><br>Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/02/09 22:16

[ramsabi]

Hi Jayd my friend, that was intended as a joke. Please do not take umbrage.

 

Yes Dan, the point is the pasteurisation requirement has nothing to do with cyanide poisoning. Only sweet alomonds are grown in the USA and sweet almonds do not contain amygladin.

 

Sweet alomonds therefore do not need pasteurisation or treatment to remove cyanide and can be safely fed raw to birds/animals/humans.

 

Bitter almonds are the ones that have cyanide.

[ramsabi]

Jilly Beanz wrote:

 

<snip> I follow any direction given, and I am a sheep (guided by this forum)<snip>

 

 

More so here Jill, especially given Rishi's condition. I have a zero risk policy for now. There are enough safe and healthy foods around and I have no inclination to experiment. Rishi is given ONLY foods that have been recommended here in these forums.

 

So even in the future- whether backed by feeling, fact or assumption, if i hear that a food is unsafe, it will not be offered to Rishi.

 

I am participating in this thread out of sheer academic interest and to learn if there is evidence (formal or even anecdotal), research or first-hand experience for classifying a food item as detrimental/toxic/harmful.

[Jayd]

I'd like to take a moment to personally thank everyone involved in this thread.I felt it was very important that these questions be asked, And all the reply's were more than outstanding....A special Thank you to Dan [danmcq] for all his time and contributions.

Karma Dan.... [6hr's from now. LOL]

Thanks

Jay<br><br>Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/02/10 20:40

[danmcq]

Jay - Thanks for the karma and compliment :-)

 

But. many are contributing here and thats what makes this forum such a wonderful place to come to. :-)

 

Jay - You asked about pesticides and other chemicals used on crops.

 

They are definitely something all should be aware of and use the cleaning and washing practices you described with a vinegar solution and rinse thoroughly.

 

This does a very good job of removing most of any residual chemicals and also bacteria etc. that can reside on veggies and fruit.

 

Some things most of us sometimes become lax about such as salt, sugar etc. are poisons to our FIDs at a certain level of intake.

 

Salt will kill any critter including humans if a high quantity is consumed, hell even water will kill you if you drink too much in a short amount of time.

 

They key is, everything in small quantities and moderation. Some may even chose to not let their bird have any of these substances at all in human food they share. :-)