Apples for Amazons...

[Jayd]

APPLES, for our chunky buddy's, High in fiber and pectin, they contain anti-bacterial, anti-viral, and anti-inflammatory agents. Apples can be a weapons against high cholesterol. In some animal tests, the pectin in apples has lowered or normalized cholesterol and triglycerides. Jay

[BaxtersMom]

Wow, I knew they were good but I didn't know they were that good!!! Luckily, my amazon and the rest of the gang do like their apples. Just curious, do apples do all the same stuff for humans too? Anti inflammatory, lower high cholesterol, etc?

[SunnyBird]

However, apple seeds are poisonous and should be avoided. Right?

[Luvparrots]

My fids love their apples and beets!

[Jayd]

Yes, great for all, Renate is 100% correct, no seeds...Theirs a lot of info on the net about the benefits of apples, it's the "Pectin" that doe's the trick, apples have a lot of sugar,[i'm diabetic] so what we do is use organic apple cider vinegar, we use 1 tsp per 16oz water. [this was vet recommended]

 

Here's one site of many...

 

http://www.webmd.com/diet/apple-cider-vinegar<br><br>Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/01/12 20:38

[BaxtersMom]

Yes, the seeds can be toxic and should always be removed.

[TPU]

Hello All,

 

Apple seeds and also cherry, peach, plum, pears and apricot pits contain the same amygdalin compound which turns into cyanide when it comes in contact with digestive enzymes in our intestines. This chemical acts as a natural preservative to keep the seeds viable so they can grow the next season.

 

Many wild and farm animals eat whole apples in large quantities when they are in season. Apple seeds have a very tough coating and need to be chewed up to release the amygadalin.

 

It takes about 100 grams (1/2 cup – 600 seeds – ~ 6 seeds / apple) of crushed apple seeds to make a human ill. Even if you ate the seeds from 100 apples, or your amazon size bird ate 2 apples worth of seeds, all at the same time, the gut will easily detoxify these small quantities of cyanide as it was created.

 

In the last 25 years Hartman Aviary has accumulated more than 8,000 adult bird years of experience, and over 4,000 babies learning to eat adult food. We have fed tens of thousands of apples, never removing one seed, and never noticing one sick bird.

 

And, I am sure that many of our birds like to peel the seeds and some ingest them. They actually taste a little like almonds. I have eaten them myself.

 

Survival of an escaped parrot may hinge on its ability to find apples in a tree. We try to teach all of our pet birds to forage in a tree to eat things hanging on the limbs. If you bird has only eaten food from a dish, your plate, or your hand they may not be able to find enough food to survive until you find them. Usually there is something around for them eat if they can fly and recognize foods. All of our birds can fly well and are harness trained so we can take them outside wearing a bird harness and let them climb on a tree branch. Hand them treats when they are on the branch. Then put the food on the limb so they have to pick it up. You should go as far as tying apples and nuts to the branch so they have to reach down and pull them off. I can hear someone in the background screaming ‘they might get poisoned’. Bottom line is that is a short sighted response that I will not go into at this time. Since we have been dealing with many thousands of flighted birds over the last 25 years we have lots of experience helping owners retrieve escaped pet birds. It is rare that a bird raised at Hartman Aviary does not make it back home.

 

This will also teach your bird to be comfortable standing on a shaky tree limb, with the wind blowing leaves in their face. Most escaped parrots are so scared of just being on the limb that they are unable to jump off and fly to you.

 

Best Regards,

[Jayd]

Thank you for your input. Many recent researches show the inherent danger to our fids ingesting apple seeds etc, there is a number of reports on the net showing death from this cause... It is best to use caution, it only takes 1 mistake....Jay

[SunnyBird]

Thank you Steve! That's fantastic advice and as usual, the Greek proverb applies - Pan Metron Ariston - every with measure - i.e a little of anything can't hurt.

 

I still owe you a photo with Sunshine in his harness with the Acropolis or something in the background.... I haven't forgotten! Hopefully during this summer I will realize that goal.

 

Would you mind also telling us, if you know, whether seeds from citrus fruits - oranges, mandarins, etc. are good for our parrots? They taste bitter to us but my bird eats them.

 

They are high in flavenoids which are responsible for the colors of many fruits and vegetables, are found also in grains, nuts, leaves and flowers, and studies suggest there value in the treatment of a number of disorders. They are considered one of the most common biological constituents in plants.

 

They have a gentle, beneficial action on numerous physiological processes in the body and may benefit the heart, blood vessels, liver, immune system, connective tissue, adrenal glands, kidneys, musculature and nervous system. Flavonoids may act as anti-oxidants, "anti-allergics", anti-inflammatories, immunostimulating, anti-hepatotoxic, anti-neoplastic and hypoglycemic along with numerous other actions including stabilizing capillary permeability.

 

Have you noticed anything beneficial or detrimental in the consumption of them?

 

Cheers, Renate Marios and Sunshine, Athens, Greece

 

P.S. Also, thanks for the great training tips - survival training - that's a great idea. I have every intention to pursue it with my amazon.<br><br>Post edited by: SunnyBird, at: 2010/01/13 20:19

[TPU]

Hello SunnyBird,

I knew about apple seeds from a class in college so I have been tuned into all of the misinformation over the last 25 years.

 

My birds eat all of the seeds you mentioned but I have not investigated their nutrient contributions.

 

Hello Jayd,

If you have any information where there is documented proof of parrots getting sick from eating apple seeds I would like to see it. In the last 25 years all I have been able to find is someone who knew someone who had heard something that someone thought they might have heard from someone else who…

 

I am not exaggerating when I say that I have fed tens of thousands of apples, never removed one seed, and have never seen one bird get sick from apple seeds, or any of the foods we feed. We also have many volunteers with many thousands of bird years of experience that do not remove the seeds and have not had a problem.

[Jayd]

Thank you "TPU" for your informative post. "NO" challenged accepted, that's not what were here for. The purpose of this forum is to learn, pass on info and insight, have fun and share...My answer to your post was a honest thank you and my opinion,not who has a bigger car nor criticism. If some one believes that apple seeds are poison, and decides not to feed them to there birds, this hurts no one, You wrote: "Bottom line is that is a short sighted response that I will not go into at this time."[please read post]

The good people here are not short sighted!!! It might be of interest to you, we have 2 areas where you can "post" you business where are readers can visit...

 

Thank You

Jay

[TPU]

Hi Jayd,

 

I did not quite understand your post. If you are assuming I am challenging someone you are not correct. I have provided personal evidence that apple seeds do not pose a problem to pet birds. I have also mentioned that in 25 years I have not yet come across anyone with direct or even somewhat credible evidence of a parrot getting sick from eating apple seeds.

 

You mentioned that you have information regarding recent research and a number of deaths related to apple seeds. If someone has additional information I am very interested. . If this is what you think is a challenge you have misunderstood my request. Even today after you mentioned deaths from apple seeds I did a search and could not even find a report of illness. I have been looking for proof that apple seeds are dangerous for many years without success.

 

I do disagree with your statement that misinformation about the danger of apple seeds can be harmful. If a bird owner thinks their bird has just ingested apples seeds and rushes them to the veterinarian, or worse, tries to do emergency treatment on their own, there are consequences. Myself dealing with this question many times over the years has had a significant time consequence.

 

If there is any real evidence that apple seeds cause a problem for pet birds then I need to promote awareness of the danger. If there is no evidence of harm, and a significant body of evidence that they do no harm, then this is what we should be promoting when the opportunity arises.

 

I did not understand what is meant by ‘[please read post]’, can you explain please.

 

Best Regards,

Steve

[Jayd]

To clarify my statement that if a person doesn't wish to feed their parrot something, it's "ok" this choice is ours to make...On this subject you have "promoted" what you believe is right as I have. To clarify my "read post", it's for our readers so they might know what you said...

We have both made our points clear. Let's leave the posting now to others, and sit back and listen. After all, that's what this forum's all about...

Jay

PS. I believe the apple subject has been pitted to the core...:lol:

Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/01/14 02:38<br><br>Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/01/14 02:41

[SunnyBird]

I think that it is exactly these types of informative discussions which can make you revisit a subject and see if there are any new developments. Personally, I always took everyone’s word that apple seeds are poisonous and never gave it a second thought. We should keep in mind, however, that there is always research going on out there and new conclusions coming in - take dark chocolate and red wine as an example (we’re talking about human consumption here, of course, but you get the picture).

 

By the way, my husband makes fresh apple juice for us and our young daughter very often and doesn't remove the seeds when he's masticating the apples in the juicer. We have never gotten sick from the juice but nevertheless we don't feed it to the bird, just to be on the safe side.

 

Everyone has freedom of choice just as everyone has the freedom to explore the alternatives or to disagree. I do not think that anyone has disputed that at all. In fact, differing opinions make the conversation more interesting as long as it’s done respectfully and open mindedly. I will leave this post with a few links I found for those who would like to look further. I don't have loads of time to research but I did come across a couple of interesting articles just now.

 

The reason I visit greyforums is to learn and have some fun and I am thrilled when people with great background in this field take the time to share their knowledge gained through their personal hands on experience. That goes for Jayd, Steve, Dave, Dan, Talon and many more of the members here. I thank you all.

 

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/bio99/bio99250.htm

 

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99463.htm

 

http://surfingthetao.vox.com/library/post/eat-your-apple-seeds.html

 

Warm regards to all of you.

Renate and Sunshine

 

P.S. Any other kinds of fruit to dispute out there?? :laugh:

[Jayd]

As always your posts are always informative, Thank you.....Jay

[SunnyBird]

{Feel-good-000200A2}

 

Aw thanks........a little tedious though, too right?? :laugh: But I do think it's important to back up the statements we make with references. <br><br>Post edited by: SunnyBird, at: 2010/01/27 14:05

[Talon]

I err on the side of caution, and am very vigilant about NOT letting my birds have the seeds. It is a personal choice. B)

[harmonicaman68]

TPU ---This has been a great conversation. It makes me wonder what other foods may have been cautioned against, where the "evidence" about not feeding them to our birds is only anecdotal. I was especially interested in the specific proportions of seed in a human's diet that may be harmful and how that is reduced to a smaller number in birds. I assume this is a number based on body weight, just as a physician would proportion a "dose" of medicine for a child at a smaller amount than for an adult human.

 

Jayd ... no worries about TPU caution against being "short sighted". I believe that most readers here understood what TPU meant. We can each inadvertently make a choice that is short sighted by not preparing our birds for the day when they will mistakenly fly out a door or window. Personally, this conversation has raised my awareness that I should start preparation of Ziva for that very thing. In that way ... this conversation has been beneficial about more than just food ... I'm going to begin purposed socialization of Ziva toward some survival skills. No one wants their feathered friend to escape, but we all want them to survive long enough for us to find them before a predator does.

[danmcq]

This is a great thread with many comments by ALL to truly consider.

 

AS TPU has indicated and I have found myself. There are a TON of links on the internet when you search for any specific question. Then each of those contains a TON of comments and thoughts of which are mostly based on what each person has "read" or "heard". None for the most part are based on scientific fact.

 

I agree as Talon put it, that it is better to error on the side of caution if in doubt.

 

An illustration of this, is the Advacado for example. There is a TON of links and books that list them as "Poisonous" to our FIDs, which is correct if the entire skin, meat and seed were consumed. However, the poisonous material is actually the skin, not the meat. Atleast from various scientific data you can find in a search on the web.

 

However, in the scientific data as related to bird consumption, there is some "unknown" if eating the meat often enough would lead to "Possible" poisoning.

 

So, I choose NOT to let my Fids enjoy some good old Guacamole when we have it. Thus erring on the side of caution for now.

 

I am absolutely impressed with the reasoning TPU put forward in using fruits etc. in their natual form to help prepare our birds for survival in case of escape. Great thoughts and information to use!!! :-)

 

Again, great thread and keep it going!!! :-)

[carolz7]

That is very interesting had no idea about this, thanks for the info