help needed for jealous grey

[bethanyd545]

hi i'm new to this site and i'm hoping that someone can give me some help / tips with my grey jake , we adopted him at age 7 , and i have built up a fantastic relationship with him in the several months we have had him , the problem is , he doesn't like the rest of the family , he lands on my daughter or husband , is nice then for no reason attacks , my daughter is now terrified of him . i have tried taking a back seat so he can get used to them but it hasn't worked , i have tried almost every tip i have come across on the net eg time out in his cage ,spraying with water , shaking to make him unsteady , none have helped , just wondering if anyone out there has any experience , i have had grey's before but from babies so haven't had this , how do you socialize a parrot when he's 7 without risking injury

[Guest jamalbirdbiz]

is it really that big of a deal if he is antisocial. I dont think i would really care if mines were. B) as long as mines are into me then i have to admit it would be bussines as usual. im not saying that i want it that way. i m just saying i would be cool with it. if i were u i would just let it work itself out. that is just how life is. sorry to be the one to tell u but someone has to. :blush:

[ecodweeb]

OH my, I dread reading stories about attacking greys.

 

Best advise is to have them sit in a chair and talk to him, so he gets "used" to them, if he isn't clipped... a small clipping would also aid in this training.

[bethanyd545]

thanks will give it ago , feel mean getting him clipped but i need to be able to trust him thanks again beth

[Greywings]

We can call it an altitude adjustment and those feathers will grow back out sooner than you might think.

[danmcq]

One question on the biting. It seems he is fine when he fly's and lands on them. Then a few minutes later he bites?

 

If this is true, it is not an aerial attack and clipping is not needed.

 

The key is to change the landing target. I assume he is landing on the shoulder. If so, have them place their arm up as a landing perch rather than allowing him on the shoulder.

 

With a 7 year old Grey. It is going to take a lot of time, patience and bribing with treats by the other house members.

 

One thing to keep in mind also. A Grey always has a favored one that they will cuddle with, get scratches and not bite.

 

All other people are normally just flock members and are not their cuddle muffin. This means the relationship is tolerance and respect for anothers space.

 

Also, when they get a reaction that they think is fun, like giving a nip and having the person yell, flail their arms or hop around. It is BIG FUN and therefore a reward for their bad behaviour.

 

The method of reaction needs to be very deliberate, no loud yelling or arm flailing unless it's simply to shoo the bird off which is then a negative for the bird. Cage timeouts with a firm no bite is also a good enforcer and have everyone leave the room for a while.

 

They like being with the flock. If the flock shuns him for a bad behaviour. He will stop it.

 

Wing clipping is not the correct cure all for behaviour issues. It also damages the relationship you have with the bird and also results in a safety issue if you have any dogs or cats and the bird can not fly to safety.

 

Another thing that could be going on is hormones pulsing due to mating season and also molting which causes irritation.

 

Please think carefully about what you can do to modify that bad behavior. Know also that with a seven year old bird. It will not change over night or in a week. :-)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/12/15 16:09

[bethanyd545]

hi and thanks , it can be the shoulder he gave a nasty bite not quite drawing blood but a nice bruise to my daughter's cheek this morning , but it's mostly the head or a favorite of his being wait til you bend to put the washing in or something away and get on your back , for several weeks i put him in his cage with no treats and his cover on , it didn't help if anything he got worse like he blamed them for him being in his cage , the worse his behavior gets with them , the better it is with me , the vast majority of these attacks take place in the kitchen and again the majority when i am in the other room , i just hear and go to get him off , not sure if any of these are connected , but i really appreciate your help especially with xmas just around the corner and having people round without locking him in his cage , beth

[Greywings]

Time out in jail should only be a few minutes in duration, they are not like people or dogs. A quick response with no interaction just quietly to the cage and ignore, 5-to 10 minutes later try again. If you think the attacks are kitchen related then avoid the kitchen, avoid shoulder and head perching as well. the best thing to do is to avoid those situations where bites occur. Success breeds success bites promote more bites so the best thing is to avoid those situations leading to the bite.

[Luvparrots]

Hi Beth, Karma to you for taking in an older grey. I never let my grey on my shoulder. She is restricted to my arm or one of her perches. Dan has given some great advice. My grey was clipped when I got her and it has taken over a year for her flight feathers to grow back. She is a joy to watch fly and so much happier.<br><br>Post edited by: luvparrots, at: 2009/12/16 21:33

[Christina]

Hi, you got some great advice. What is your cage situation? Is it in another room? Is it possible to have a small cage in the kitchen to use as a "time out" cage? When she does something naughty put her in the time out cage and everyone turn their back on her for just a few seconds or a minute...only a short bit, it will be enough. the best solution is to not let it happen. I would suggest not having your daughter or husand be viable landing zones for her. Meaning, arm them with a small hand towel, when you hear flapping, towel up, my grey will not land on a towel (they are very intelligent and it won't take long for her to not land on them). Although, that being said they are opportunistic and will wait for them to be "unarmed" so to speak, so you hear flapping and no towel, duck, don't make it easy for her land on them. Then clicker training and treats only given by your family members...whatever your greys favorite treat is, only they can give them to her. Have your daughter work on training her. It builds a bond, not like you and she have, but a different one. I think this is one of the most difficult situations because you can not have any animal biting your children. It is just completely unsatisfactory. I will say though, that clipping a grey is not always the solution. I recently posted about having a very hard time with an attacking caique (she was rehomed). I did choose to do a light clip on her, but those parrots are very cocky and sure of themselves and will attack continusouly and very aggressively (I will let her flight feathers come back and we will continue to work with her to get her fully flighted without attacking, that is our ulimate goal). My experience with greys, are they more sneaky and act like all is well and then CHOMP they give a good hard bite, or they do a fly by and keep flying to a high spot that you can't get them. I feel like greys also need flight becuase it does give them more confidence and makes them less fearful (I won't go into the safety aspects, I think Dan hit on them). I hope you give redirection and training some time before you try clipping.

[Dave007]

"""how do you socialize a parrot when he's 7 without risking injury """

 

That's a very difficult to do if the bird hasn't been in that type of relationship with others in the past. He's a pre owned bird that came with a certain personality and attitude, likes and dislikes and that has habits that he or she will not let go of. That's especially true when it comes to training that biird to like others and it doesn't really matter if that other person is male or female.

 

As far as children, a large majority of greys don't care for children. Your grey may have had a previous bad attitude towards kids be they very young or teenagers. You may have to live with the fact that your bird may not like others in your house. He's an adult bird. Socializing an adult bird is quite different than with a very young bird.

 

Another reason for not clipping is their ability to go from one place to another. Greys are very clumbsy and need lots of coordination and power to go from one place to another. If not, they'll drop to the floor and won't be able to go back up. In the wild, a grey flies best when they need to go a long distance. Basically they're the type of bird that perches most of the time when in the wild. Clipping also affects a bird's personality.

 

Pdrsonally, I don't think that using towels will do much good because if a bird has that tendency to bite, they'll eventually go through the towel and or become frightened. If that happens any type of relationship you're trying to achieve will go out the window.

Dan and I believe that simply providing an alternate place to land ( arm) is a good technique to use. I've done that many times and it eventually works. That techique is also used on very young birds who have decides to bite areas around a shoulder such as face, clothing, jewelry, ear lobes, hair. Once a bird gets behind your shoulders while on top, he's won the battle.

Remember that it will take at least 5x the amount of time to change a pre owned bird's habits.

The reason that making the bird unsteady doesn't work is because after all of the time that's passed the bird has learned to cope with that.

 

Clicker training is used on birds that are mentally well rounded, obedient birds. Trying to stop biting behavior with a clicker won't work because if the bird actually responds or approaches a clicker, it most likely will bite it. It's simply an add on item on the area that the bird likes to bite.

 

I don't believe that putting a bird in another cage is a good idea because cages shouldn't be used for disapline. Birds should always look at any cage as a nice place to go into. That's especially true when that small cage is gonna be used for other things that have nothing to do with behavior.

 

Bombarding a pre owned bird with millions of things to curb behavior doesn't work because baby steps need to be used when a bird goes from environment to environment, owner to a different owner, house habits to different house habits and that also applies to very young birds.

 

Why am I saying these things? Well, it's to avoid disappointment if it turns out to be not perfect way you want it. You've also looked on the internet and seen many methods which have tried and have failed for you but what's not on the internet is the other side of owning a pre owned bird and that has to do with existing habits and personalities.

 

Constantly substitute that other cage with a playstand which has toys on it. Over and over and over. A pre owned bird who is biting people is not being a bad bird. It's simply showing a disposition that he or she has. It's the owner that thinks that the bird is being bad. The proof of that is that the bird won't bite you but will bite others. The reasons could be very minor or major.

 

""" i have built up a fantastic relationship with him in the several months we have had him ,""""

 

In no way is that enough time to make judgements as far as behavior concerning a pre owned bird.

 

Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/12/16 19:16

[Christina]

Very interesting points Dave. Although, I respectfully disagree on many. I think you have an obligation to keep your children safe and just accepting that your bird doesn't like others is not an option. I wasn't suggesting to swat the bird with the towel, just hold the towel up in front of you so they can't land on you. Have your tried it or do you just say no these are the things I've tried and only they work? I think an open mind, with safety being the most important and positive training is a great thing. I was not suggesting anything mentally or physically negative. Clicker training is used for all birds, look it up. Your opinion on a cage is interesting and has some validity to it. HOwever, the point of a forum I thought was to gather positive and safe ideas to have a handful of ways to help with your parrot, not to trash someone else's post.

[bethanyd545]

hi and thanks very much for all the advice its great , i check and read them daily and i will try the suggestions , clipping will be a very last resort as he does take things personally and the last thing i want is to jeopardise the relationship we have , he is sulking at the moment as he has been in his cage mojority of the afternoon as it was my younger daughters birthday and i didn't want to take any risks with her friends being here as she's only 5

he has a very strong aversion to towels i think the previous owner tried towel training , as soon as he sees a towel he goes to attack , my elder daughter the one he attacks is 14 and she does wear a hat at all times and it does work , but he does choose the most opportune moments , like when she puts her plate in the kitchen or goes for a drink , we are banning him out of the kitchen as this is where most of the attacks take place .

i have thought of clicker training but he ignores it shows no interest in it at all and at the moment i am trying getting my daughter to feed him and talk to him when she comes home from school , although he is very stubborn and even if its his favorite treat he won't take it from her , she will keep persisting , she's not bothered if he doesn't want to be her friend she just wants him not to bite ,

also tried the waving arms about and towels to prevent him landing which does work , but sometimes she forgets or is getting ready for school or just done her hair

did think of a time out cage but when we got him his cage was in a bad way and a friend warned me of the zinc poisioning that her parrot had suffered so i got him a new cage and it took a month to get him in it and even now he won't land on it or choose to perch on it although he does let me put him in it willingly now .

is there any point in me thinking he will improve in time and get used to everyone as his last owner was on her own so he is not used to others , in the meantime will keep trying with my daughter giving the treats and things and clipping will go on the back boiler thanks again beth

[Dave007]

Christina

 

I'm not in the habit of trashing any people's posts and I never said anything about swatting any bird with anything.

Safe and positive ideas? Yes but there's also a down side to things that people need to know about which aren't talked about very often.

My advice comes not just from me but from many other people I know that have used many different things in order to deal with many different situations with birds that have a large variety of personalities and they and I have done it for many years on many species of parrots. This is just part of the information I give out here and many people have benefitted from knowing the whole picture and if you read the post above mine done by the person who started the thread, you'll see that many of the things I spoke about were tried with bad results which doesn't surprise me because most older birds will react the same way. People here know that what I say has nothing to do with trashing anyone.. Owning an older bird is totally different than a very young bird. Keeping children safe isn't something I take lightly and I never said anything about not doing that. Reread my post and you'll see I never referred to you by name.

[Talon]

To set the record straight, as an Admin here for the last 3 years, I can say with all honesty, I have never seen Dave write any posts where he has EVER trashed anothers advice. He is a very experienced bird owner in all aspects of raising babies, rescues, problem behaviors and overall bird behavior. He has ALWAYS treated every member with respect. I have learned a lot by reading his advice and value his expertise.

 

That being said, I have the same issues with one of my greys attacking my 14 year old son. She used to enjoy treats from him and sitting with him, then one day, for whatever reason, she would dive bomb him, he would dive for the floor, and she found it a great game to play whenever she sees him. We have tried many things, but the only thing that works for us, is a small green spray bottle with water that he holds and if she tries to play her game, he lightly sprays her with it. She HATED water, so she flies away! It works for us,now she only has to see the bottle and she changes her mind.

 

You sound like a very patient owner and I applaud you for that. You will find what works for you. Hang in there, you have gotten some good advice.<br><br>Post edited by: Talon, at: 2009/12/17 01:45