Treats

[CuteMandaPanda]

Baby will be 2yrs old on Dec 14. He's preowned. He's been living with us since Nov 6. He's only conditioned to do step ups onto a stick and he's being extremely stubborn about step up exercises from surface to hand. He's not receptive.

 

Apparently, he isn't conditioned to receiving treats because he rejects them most times that we try to give them to him when he does something pleasing or when we are trying to teach him something.

 

We've been trying to do step-up exercises from floor (or other surfaces) to hand and he wants to snap and bite, EVERY SINGLE time. When he steps up on the step up command to his stick we praise him and attempt to treat him. Right now, he loves grapes and we're limiting them to only out of the cage treats. He gets little pieces when he step up to his stick to be removed from his cage or relocated from a playstand to something different. He also enjoys peanuts. However, many times he rejects the treats or takes them and throws them. Sometimes he even dodges the treat and goes right for a finger or other part of the hand.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for getting him to understand the concept of praise and treats?

 

And again, any suggestions for ways to get him to step up to a hand so that we do not always need to use the stick. At this time, he's not really being handled at all, not due to lack of effort. He will enjoy a scratch and rub but that's as close as I can get to him.

[Jane08]

It seems like you haven't found the right treat that motivates him. You can't train them to like treats you need to find something that he will do anything for. You might have to try lots and lots before you find the right one and it will change all the time.

 

You don't have to always use food treats either if they respond to praise or they like somehting else then use that. For example Rangi would do anything to get to me so we used that to train him. So my BF would ask him to step up (I would be behind my BF) Rangi would step up and immediately my BF would hand him to me for a kiss. This was Rangi's treat which motivated him. I then placed him on the perch and we did it again.

 

We also use toys as treats. They love the caps of pens so I have also trained using this as a treat.

 

Food wise it has been anything from sunflower seeds, to little bits of sausage, small bits of pancake. We find the food treat changes all the time.

 

Keep trying to find the treat that really gets him going.

[CuteMandaPanda]

Thanks, Jane! I'll take your suggestions into consideration. I appreciate it =)

[danmcq]

Jane gave GreYt advice.

 

One thing you also have working against you, is he is going into the "Terrible Two's". They are trying to exercise their independence and they have learned the surprise bite game during their first 2 years. My grey will sometimes reach for the treat and nail me. When this happens, the best thing to NOT do is yank back your hand and drop the treat. If you do, they just got their reward...BIG FUN surprise bite game. :-)

 

As Jane said, they do love praise and various treats, but it will not stop the surprise bites. You can slow them down and also learn your greys body language, especially his eyes pinning when he's about to bite. But, they are very quick and when you already have your hand right near them, we are not normally fast enough to avoid the bite.

 

Your are doing great in your patience and consistency with how you are working with him. :-)

 

Just keep it up and know that at 2 he is going to be a hand full for possibly the entire next year. The most important thing is, as you are doing. You stay consistent letting him know what is and is not acceptable behaviour with the flock.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/12/04 15:33

[Greywings]

Rethink your approach-suggest giving him the chance to step up rewarding with either praise or a treat and if he does not want to comply then walk away, ignore him for a few minutes and return a little later. If he bites try not to react again walk away-being ignored and not getting the reaction should dampen his enthsiasm for biting. At my house they get put back into the cage for 5-10 minutes with no comments and then I give them another chance to behave gently. Paise seems to work better for my flock.

[particle77]

Jane has some great advice. I would add that if possible its helpful to identify 3-4 rewards work. If he never knows exactly what his reward will be, but he knows its always something good, he may remain interested longer.

 

Regarding throwing food he normally seems to like. Its possible that he's just not interested in it, but I'm curious, what has been your past reaction when he did this? Your reaction, or the reaction of the previous owner could conceivably have re-enforced this behavior, if for example he discovered that when he throws a treat, an even better treat is sometimes given, or if he seems to get all kinds of attention when he throws the treat.

[CuteMandaPanda]

Awesome! I'm so glad to get the advice given!

 

Particle77, I do not know how he was treated/handled by his previous owner. With me, when he drops a treat, I pick it up and try to give it to him again. He seems to get really annoyed when I show that I'm determined to keep trying.

 

The step up issue with is is so bizarre. We approach with our hand, he lunges for a bite. I've showed him that a reward is coming, then asked for the command, lunges for the bite. He seems to mean in with aggression. He reacts this way under any step up circumstance except being pick up from the floor. He gladly steps up from the floor, but no where else. Anyway, the reason it is so weird to me is I can approach with my hand for the step up with and he'll lung for the bite with aggression and wants to do damage. Right away, following that we can immediately approach with his stick and his little foot flails for the stick and he's anxiously ready to go! I don't even need to give him the command, although I ALWAYS do anyway.

[domyoburk]

I have no idea whether this will work with your little guy, but Ursula used to lunge at my hand whenever I approached her for a step-up and now she doesn't!

 

At the advice of a behaviorist I stopped making her step up (which is perhaps what your bird's previous owner did - you know, pressing the hand into their abdomen until they have to step up). In their terrible twos many greys, I hear, say "screw that!" and start biting.

 

I would give Ursula a treat just for allowing my hand near and not lunging. When I HAD to move her I used a stick, but mostly used the "I'll ignore you then" routine until she wanted to come.

 

She stopped associating my hand with coercion and stopped biting. Then she started associating stepping up on my hand with going fun places and doing fun things (NOT just going back in the cage).

 

Now I offer my hand about 8 inches away, and if she wants to come with me she lifts a foot! And amazingly, she wants to come with me most of the time, especially when I tell her all about the fun things we'll be doing.

[CuteMandaPanda]

Thank you for sharing your experience with us domyoburk. It makes a lot of sense. Can you share with me some other things you learned from the behaviorist? I'm curious. What else did it help you with?

 

I don't think he enjoys leaving his cage. We have different play stands and a t-perch. I always give him something to play with or different snacks. He seems to have fun once he's out. He is usually chatty and vocal making all his different noises. He loves toilet/paper towel rolls so I usually give that to him. But for some reason he doesn't seem anxious to be out of his cage with us. With that said, I don't know if the "ignore and walk away and try later" approach would work. With time, patience, and consistency, I hope something will eventually take with him. I got nailed a few times encouraging him to step up from perches to hand or from my lap to hand and he seems to hate it 100%. He seems to dislike hand movements in general but he's getting much better with me. He's very lungy and nippy when Rob tries to interact with him. I can't tell if it's his approach or just a general dislike for Rob?

 

It's so confusing. Baby is so hard to understand.

[particle77]

CuteMandaPanda wrote:

He seems to dislike hand movements in general

 

I think this is the key. since you mentioned he likes grapes, but throws them on the floor when you offer them as a reward, I'm suspecting he's had negative experiences with hands in the past, similar to what domyoburk described.

 

You might be able to find something he likes enough to overcome this, but I'm thinking that in your case, you need to focus on something more basic than step up, and thats taking food from your hand. As was mentioned earlier by Jane, you don't normally have to train parrots to like treats, but you may have to train him to not be afraid of your hand.

 

Try putting the treat down and letting him retrieve it while you are nearby. keep repeating that, and each time keep your hand a little closer to the treat. If he refuses the treat at any point you can try backing your hand off and repeating from the previous distance again. The eventual goal is to still be touching the treat when he takes it, at that point you can try actually holding it in place, and finally you can try moving your hand with the treat slightly towards him. How fast all of this progresses depends entirely on your parrot. It could go fast, but if he's had some bad experiences with hands and doesn't trust them it might be slow going.

[CuteMandaPanda]

I was doing some thinking and I came to the conclusion that his issue with hand movements may be due to little kids. In his previous home, he loved with a bunch of young kids and I'm sure between them and their friends especially that they may have rubbed Baby the wrong way? You know, quick movements, being disrespectful to his needs and desires, pointing, poking? I'm sure the list could go on.

 

I really feel he has trust issues, which is expected. Although his trust issues might stem from something rather than the typical "I need to know my flock members before I trust them theory."

 

I really appreciate all the advice coming my way. Thanks for taking the time =)

[domyoburk]

I was struck by how our behaviorist taught us how to break everything down into tiny, tiny baby steps. Basically deciding on a very reasonable goal and then using tiny steps to work up to that. I wanted Ursula to stop biting and step up. First, I put my hand a foot away and then offered her a treat she liked (toy, snack, whatever). When that was acceptable to her, I moved my hand a little closer. Some days or session she wouldn't go for that. Gradually I moved my hand closer - placing it in a particular place, not moving it once I offered the treat (not changing the conditions). If she didn't go for it within three seconds, I removed hand and treat and tried again later (after a minute, or at a later session).

 

Gradually, or when she was in a good mood, I worked up to offering the treat such that she hand to lean over my hand to get it, then up to asking her to put one foot on it. Then we moved to her stepping up on it in order to get the treat - but then I didn't move it! She could step right back down. Then we moved to short trips, but by that point she had more positive association with my hand.

 

I also tuned into what she wanted - and they always want something, even if it's for us to go away! In your case, you might have Rob approach until just before Baby gets upset, then praise him (use a clicker to mark the moment if you can) and then reward Baby by having Rob move away.

 

Dealing with parrots is so different from how we usually deal with dogs or people! There's just no forcing them without repercussions. If I start moving too quickly or demanding too much, Ursula will get bitey again... I will start to despair that she will ever change her habits and cooperate, and will decide something has to go in a particular way. But very patient, gentle, slow, positive interactions lead to a genuine friendship - it's so rewarding when they demonstrate interest or affection all on their own. It really is about taming a wild creature.