I need some plucking support

[ecodweeb]

Talula is going to be the death of me.

 

So apparently, on Thursday, when I wasn't feeling well and went to bed early (around 7pm) my partner said Talula was being very bad and wouldn't step up and tried to jump off the cage. He caught her, and held her on her back for a minute and rubbed her head -- we've become rather well adjusted to grabbing a grey in a head lock. We've also basically become numb to bleeding.

 

So he gets her in the cage and she bites him pretty badly.

 

Next day I notice that she HAD three full grown tail feathers, now there is 1.5. One full feather and half the shredded feather are in the bottom of the cage.

 

I think well OK that's I guess par the course, right?

 

Wrong. So now she only has the baby feathers. She pulled the other one, plus a new wing growth, over the weekend. I even gave her new perches and a little wood ladder to climb, not to mention I bought them baby pumpkins (she LOVES pumpkin seeds) to tear apart.

 

I'd say I'm doing something wrong, but I know I'm not. I don't know what her problem is, likely hormones + molting season. But for the love of Buddha, this bugs me.

 

Part of me thinks when I see her shredding I should call her a bad or ugly girl, but I'm not sure that's going to have a good effect on her. I reward her with pumpkin seeds when she talks, to my knowledge I've not rewarded plucking.

 

I really just need some comfort. It's only three months, I suppose I'm asking a bit much of her still. I had hoped she'd be not naked by Christmas or New Years but that's looking less likely. She's also shredding her other body feathers, just half the feather is there. It's so odd.

 

She's getting bathed and soaked in alo and lots of red palm and nutrients. She's getting love (who else would put up with the scars I have), but I must be missing something.

 

Sigh. Thanks for listening. <br><br>Post edited by: ecodweeb, at: 2009/10/26 14:36

[danmcq]

Well, for one thing. The head locks and restraining her is certainly not building trust. It is instilling more fear in her and increased plucking, I would suspect.

 

It would be better just to leave her be than trying to get her out of or into the cage if that type of restraining method must be used.

 

In her mind she is at the hands of predators and doesn't know if she is going to be lunch or not this time.

 

Some birds become so frightened by restraints they actually die of a heart attack.

[ecodweeb]

Noted. I figured that's what caused it this time.

 

I don't hold her down on any kind of normal basis, the bad beak clipping, when she's broken a blood feather, and at the vet's for examination are the only times she's been held back. She is not trusting to let you flip her upside down perched on your hand, and she verbally and physically lets you know it.

 

I've already gathered she is far more of a beak as an appendage user than the other grey we have, and that's been ok to adjust to, but sometimes she isn't going to steady herself she wants to bite. She's got quite the chomp to her.

 

I've also stopped trying to pet her between the cage bars, that has only resulted in me bleeding and/or having to change the food/water bowls because of it.

 

I'm really re-learning how to interact with her as none of the things that Phoenix enjoyed/responds to have a positive impact on her.

[danmcq]

I hear yeah!!

 

Every Grey has a different personality and learned to interact with humans differently. Even individuals are treated differently as to whether they are the Greys favorite or just another member of the flock. I am the latter in our home and if I try things my wife can do, the blood will pour.

 

I can not do anything through the bars with my Grey except get bit. My wife can give a scratch through them at times, but I believe sometimes he is just pissed to be in the cage and at those times will bite her too.

 

Thats why I am writing a book or BIG journal on my grey so the next owners will know how he his been trained and interacts with people. he will out live both my wife and I by decades, unless we live to 110.

[ecodweeb]

I REALLY wish I had that. One of the big problems we had at first was I tend to wear long sleeves shirts and she was trained to step up on a towel covered arm.

 

You can imagine the mixed signals as I walked past the (to me chest height) cage with my arms extended holding my laptop and she's standing here, throws that foot up and just leans over... and falls off the cage.

 

She's clumsy, at the same time, she's trying. She is really developing leg muscles and lately she wants to jump off the sofa and wander the floor (I don't really like letting her wander around the floor, the last owner told me she would jump off her cage and wander the hallway).

 

I also must remind myself it's been 3 months. When I met Phoenix he'd had 5 years of training. Bit of a difference there. I am sure he was just as difficult in the early days, and the winter time doesn't help their mood at all. even phoenix is refusing to step up from his swing in his cage if I ask him to, which is about normal for this time of year (in the summer he always steps up, regardless).

 

Talula has always kind of taken to Butch, which is why I was so surprised that she bite him and refused to step up for him to go to bed. Then bit him AGAIN after being put up!

 

No two are alike, that is the one thing I've learned so far. Our male is an exceptional little loving creature. I recite Dave's rescue poem on a daily basis to try and stay encouraged and remember where she came from. She'd lived for over 6 months with people who hated or feared her, and even the vet said she really wants to trust people but she's been burned so many times in the past that she just can't let herself do it.<br><br>Post edited by: ecodweeb, at: 2009/10/26 16:36

[jessdecutie18]

If you are having to 'head-lock' your grey and getting 'numb to the bleeding' then you are putting too much stress on her. Take it slow... you keep saying about where she came from and that she needs to build trust, well for now start slow. Open the cage and give her praise if she decides to come out and step up onto your hand...

 

Yoshi is totally lovable and acts as if she will never bite, but being on her back is something that genuinly scares her and she will latch onto your finger with everything she's got. I'm working with her on that, but these things take time (and lots of yummy treats! ) to overcome.

 

I wish you luck!

[ecodweeb]

Well, that's what I do. I placed a perch by the door because she would generally be sitting on the door chirping when I get home for me to open the door. 9 out of 10 times, she's sitting outside her cage when someone is home.

 

The harnessing and restraining has been par the course for broken feathers, i've just gotten used to accepting that I have to hold (either one) down and I'm going to get bit. I'm just numb to the bleeding, because I realize that it's unavoidable. Not because it happens often, but because it does happen.

 

It's kind of like owning a car and assuming you're never going to have a major problem go wrong. I'm the person who was prepared with that spare filter, belt, etc because I know that it will eventually break. Likewise I think people who never expect to be bitten by a bird (of any kind) have a harsh lesson coming.

 

Moreover, I worry I don't properly convey these thoughts in my posts. I do not come home and grab the bird and leave her on her back for 10 minutes a day, but there are times (like when she jumped and broke her blood feather and it was dripping) where she has to be restrained and well the feather pulled, and then stiptic applied and someone has to hold their finger on the wound to make the bleeding stop. I didn't approve of Butch's restraining her for biting, but that's what happened -- can't change that fact.

 

I figured that's what caused her to pull, what I am unsure of what to do is to properly discourage that behavior. I'd rather she bite the hand that feeds than shred herself apart.

 

I have the feeling in 6 months I'll look back on this laughing, but it's very discouraging. She was doing so well, and one incident has set her back quite a bit. I guess if anything this is a sign of just how untrusting she is (and it didn't help that the one she regurgitated for held her down, I'm sure).

 

I've always been just another flock member to her (by my accounts, she does the happy dancing for Butch), but I spend a lot of time talking to her and I've even taken her (when warm) outside.

 

In the end I suppose the reading of books, talking to her, and outdoor (she loves being outside I've noticed) times with her perched on my hand will eventually form a bond. I'm just underestimating the time, and also the fact that girls are much more apprehensive than the boys to not just humans, but all others they encounter.

[katana600]

Chris, First, sorry that Talula is plucking. Two steps forward one step back. She may like you more than you can see and you went to bed early the unpredictability was a stress to her a bit too. From reading your posts I have seen you to be caring and conscientious. What is done is done and going forward you can talk to her and tell her what you are doing and let her get back to being able to predict pleasant interactions with both of you. Hang in there, it will take some time but will turn around again.

[ecodweeb]

Dee, wow, you know I never thought about that. I am always the last to bed, and the last to rise. As such I tend to all the creatures in the house -- turning off aquarium lights, covering cages and feeding all in the AM. That's actually a real ray of sunshine, thank you. I feel better <br><br>Post edited by: ecodweeb, at: 2009/10/26 19:19

[Joolesgreyuk]

"I need some plucking support"

 

No need to swear

[katana600]

Chris, I hope you are feeling better physically from your illness. When our immunities are down it is a lot harder to handle the emotional stresses in our own lives. Taking in an older grey with baggage is a hard and worthy road. Three months may feel like an eternity when you are trying so hard to help Talula. Give yourself room to feel sad for her anxiety when she plucks, but don't take it personally. Love her for her personality... that's what I tell my husband all the time when he calls me a character. LOL Keep your chin up, we are here for your support just like you are here for us.<br><br>Post edited by: katana600, at: 2009/10/27 03:59

[Jingles]

I'm so sorry that she's plucking...

 

I got my lori from a not so wonderful place...opps, yes, we learned our lesson... and we figured out (through a bird trainer) that he didn't like to be talked harshly too...only positive reinforcement...no negative (which is hard!) my lori was biting a lot and since we've only done the positive reinforcement, he's done a lot better...I also increased the amount of night he had...

 

Hopefully those will spark something for you!