The Parrot "Bite Me!!!" Club

[Sarasota]

I'm happy to say that I have never been bitten by Burt.

 

Sondheim is another story. Currently, he's going through a mating phase (even though he is only 25 months old). He flies to my hand and immediately starts gnawing on my fingers and trying to bite my ears and earrings. Still, it's not true biting. And, I'm afraid, I've done A LOT of reinforcing this behavior. The more I pry his beak off my finger, the more of a game it becomes. And, ashamed to say, I've nuzzled his head and kissed his beak too many times after the bad behavior. I'm my own worst enemy!

 

I've received two true bites from him. First, I was having my kitchen redone. I thought I'd take him in to see the demo. Duh. Too much for his little brain to see the kitchen completely gone - and he got my hand pretty bad. The other time was....well, tonight! I came to the forum to chat about it and found this thread by coincidence. Just a few days ago I started working with him extra hard to retrain the gnawing behavior. He was doing fantastic all day. Then I went to take him off his boing and put him in his cage. He reached out with one foot, stepped on my hand...and WHAM!! Shocked the heck out of me. There wasn't any body posture that I saw, no eye pinning...he was stepping up. It didn't draw blood....but it was a hard hit and a very aggressive bite.

 

I assume I pushed him too hard today. Guilty of that more than once. But even though you tell yourself not to take it personally, you always do!

[zandische]

Well, it's time for me to join. I feel like such a dummy these days, and I swear, just when I think I understand my birds they kick me in the rear I'm hoping this story has a happy ending for good, but just in case, I'm logging my entry to the club

 

Gryph just turned 3 and boy does he have a wild streak. I've never had a bird that was a biter! At first he would nip when he was angry and then occasionally he would bite if he didn't want to do something, like step up. Then, about six months ago it was like all hell broke loose! I thought it was hormones or the terrible twos stage or something crazy!!! Any time I tried to get him to step up he'd lunge at me. I attributed this to the fact that I am short and all of his perches are tall, so I'd get a step ladder. At first, this worked, but then as time went on he started biting even when I was taller than him. If he didn't want to do something he wouldn't just give a warning nip, he'd bite the crap out of me. Then it morphed into suckering me for a kiss and trying his best to pierce my lower lip (which was successful, coulda hung a stud in it.) Finally, it transitioned into randomly biting my face with no warning, and when he finally landed a piercing bite a mere 2mm from my eye, I was fed up. I had scabs and scars all over my hands and face! EEEK!

 

I tried everything to get him to stop, but in the end I was just so tired and scared of being bit or losing an eye that I didn't even want to interact with him. I started to think the best option might be finding him another home. But I told my husband...I've got to be doing something wrong, he wasn't always like this! And who wants a face-biting bird anyway? And even though his aggression was every day, there were still good points to our relationship - he only wanted to be with me and he got jealous if I paid any attention to his sister. He also never bit my husband or anyone else, only me. During feeding times, he always wanted to share my food and would in fact bring me food to eat. I seriously felt like a battered bird-wife!

 

After a lot of reflection, I decided there were a few big problems. First and foremost, my approach to the whole situation had degenerated into yelling at him, leaving him caged and trying to dominate him, all of which were only making his aggression worse. Secondly, I decided he probably had some insecurity about his place in the flock because everyone had strong happy bonds except him, so he was always being excluded due to his aggression. Lastly, I decided that it was my fault he had learned these behaviors, so it was my job to help him unlearn them. While I never praised him for biting me, I realized I had inadvertently reinforced his biting by giving him no other kinds of interaction. My husband pointed out that while I wasn't a "bad person" or "abusive" in the ways we traditionally think about those things, it had become very apparent that if I was aggressive toward Gryph (by yelling or towering over him or demanding him to step up), he was aggressive right back, and now he was just aggressive all the time because that's what he'd come to expect from me. I decided I had to remove all forms of aggression from our interactions, even if that meant we didn't interact at all sometimes.

 

The first thing I did was start using Sally Blanchard's principles of "Nurturing guidance" through regular step-ups and step downs, and after about 3 weeks of practice, we were starting to have entire "good days" where I didn't get bit. Every morning and evening we would do a quick step up session, and then again any time he displayed aggression. Sally's idea here is that by enforcing the step ups, you are enforcing your role as the dominant part of the relationship in a positive way, and over time the bird learns to trust your leadership. The second thing I did was immediately cease yelling or showing any kind of dominating behavior. If Gryph lunged at me, I would quietly chide him in the same tone I would use as if I was just talking to him, with no anger or frustration, and then walk away. If he bit, I did the same thing. Sometimes I'd come back five minutes later and he'd still be mad, so I'd walk away again without interacting with him. When he was being good though, I got super animated. I'd praise him with huge, over-pronounced sounds and lots of kisses, whistles and noise. I'd play catch with him - his favorite game - and tease him and give him toys so that he was the center of attention. I'd also praise him for the smallest things. If he was running around on the couch, I'd normally just ignore him...now I started telling him how awesome he was. It was really starting to have a good effect!

 

There was still one little problem though. He still got aggressive when he was on a perch higher than me. I would talk to him gently and eventually he'd step up, although sometimes it was not without a few lunges. Then one day he didn't want to come down because he knew I was going out and that meant he was going in his home. We had been doing so good that day, but every time I tried to get him to step up he lunged to bite. Finally, after 15 minutes of frustration and trying to get him to step up, I'd had enough. I looked up at him and in a calm but resigned tone, said, "Come on, buddy. Do you want an almond? Just step-up-" I had just gotten the word "almond" out when he raised his foot and leaned forward to step up! No biting, no aggression, just pure willingness to do what I said! OH JOY!! Another two days went by and each time I tried to get him to step up off his high perch and he lunged, I'd offer an almond. I didn't hold it up to him - I'd ask him if he wanted to go get an almond, and then when he stepped up I'd take him over to the jar and let him pick out his own. He even started to give me a kiss after he got his almond. EVERY time it worked, and pretty soon he was lifting his foot without being offered a reward at all.

 

It has been three weeks now and in that time he has not bitten me once. He steps up most of the time without hesitation, and only sometimes needs a little gentle coaxing. I no longer try to dominate him - what a huge learning experience that was! Now I just talk quietly and positively with him. He responds so well when I just ask him nicely to do things with me. I praise him for every good action, telling him how wonderful he is. It feels so foreign to not get angry when he acts out, but he is so much more responsive to gentle chiding than anything else. What I have realized is that he doesn't know he is being "bad." It's my problem if I don't like his behavior - as far as he is concerned he is just being a bird - so if he does something I don't like, getting mad at him is just confusing and hurtful, whereas gently chiding him and distracting him is actually constructive. There have been a couple of times he didn't want to do something, and rather than savagely bite me like before, he has grabbed my finger in his beak and just pushed it away. Then I talk to him softly and tell him how good he is and how I need him to help me out, and he responds right away. I cannot even believe the change that has happened in the last two and a half months! It's like I have a whole new bird!

 

Anyhow, keeping my fingers crossed that our new relationship keeps getting better! And I am reminded every day of how much our birds have to teach us. I just wish it hadn't taken me six months to get the message on this one!

[birdhouse]

I feel like such a dummy these days, and I swear, just when I think I understand my birds they kick me in the rear

 

lol You're missing one of the most basic Grey rules.

"ALWAYS keep the parronts off balance. If they understand the rules, change them! A little chaos goes a long way towards keeping total control!"

I think you've done greyt w/this problem. You put your ego aside ( big points!). You didn't give up even when you were on your last nerve. You tried a variety of solutions until you found answers.

 

Your relationship w/Gryph will always be a work in progress. Right now, it sounds like you two are doing some very good work.

[Cheshire Cat]

Strangely enough the only time that Tui has properly bitten me has been when my attention has been turned to someone else. One day about two months ago I was playing with her, she was really enjoying it and making sweet birdie noises. My dad then called to me and I answered...two seconds later Tui bit me hard on my thumb, drawing blood. I've never known an animal so jealous. LOL.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

zandische... excellent job! Patience does always payoff. Too bad, we're on their time schedule! LOL Nancy

Cheshire Cat... they can be VERY jealous! Life for a Grey is always about "me!" Nancy

[Sarasota]

ou put your ego aside ( big points!). You didn't give up even when you were on your last nerve. You tried a variety of solutions until you found answers.

 

I really needed to hear these words right now. Thank you! XO

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Sarasota congrads! You are developing a wonderful relationship with your grey.I promise you, years down the road after all the work you do to develop the relationship, you will find your bird trusting and loving. When they get to that point ( alot of work as you are learning), it can only be described as " heavenly!" No biting... just wanting to spend time with you and be part of your life. Nancy

[Sarasota]

...I promise you, years down the road after all the work you do to develop the relationship, you will find your bird trusting and loving.

 

Thank you very much for your kind words. I have a "perfect" bird who was so damaged when I got him. I work with him constantly and the change is remkarkable. Somehow, I didn't notice that my young parrot was growing up and needed more attention too. The (second) relationship has really suffered and now I'm trying to "undo" my damage. At times I feel like giving up entirely...I needed this right now.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

NEVER give up! It is sooo worth it. Don't think of it as " trying to undo damage"... think of it as starting a new relationship. A healthy relationship! We are here to help you, so ask any questions, no matter how silly you think they are. Heck... when I got Sophie at age two, I had a day to make plans for her! I had no clue what I was doing! She survived quite well! Nancy

[zandische]

thanks, birdhouse! LOL, I think Gryph went to an advanced bird school then, because he definitely has all the Grey rules down and then some! :-P. I am officially pwned by a 1 pound bird!

[zandische]

Sarasota congrads! You are developing a wonderful relationship with your grey.I promise you, years down the road after all the work you do to develop the relationship, you will find your bird trusting and loving. When they get to that point ( alot of work as you are learning), it can only be described as " heavenly!" No biting... just wanting to spend time with you and be part of your life. Nancy

 

Nancy, thank you so much. I know G and I have a lot of work ahead of us as we do in any friendship, but you are so right.. When it's good, it feels like all of Heaven is shining on you! I love my bird! :-)

 

And Sarasota...you sound like you are already well on your way. Please keep us posted on your progress!

[Sarasota]

I had one of those "duh!" moments the other day. Sondheim likes to chew on my fingers when he's on my hand. Instead, I taught him to target my finger with the top of his beak and hold it there. I tell him "touch" and he does. Instead of gnawing, he targets and gets a tiny piece of grape. So far, so good.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Sarasota... excellent job! Even though many greys bite, I am a firm believer in letting them know your expectations. Many do so thru treats, which is a great idea! As I have said before, I am not an expert, but none of my birds bite us. Wait... Sunny DOES bite, if I ask him to stepup from his cage. I caved years ago, and put on my white terrycloth bathrobe. I feel no pain! He knows it, steps right up. Once away from his cage, I can take off the robe and he is a loving conure. Best choice for training? Absolutely not! Rescues always come with baggage, and you have to enter " their world!" Nancy

[pcwhite64]

I was bitten really bad by my TAG coco when i was training him , bearing in mind he had never been taught to step up in 5 yrs , the first time i just let him bite me and he bit right through the skin that is the worst bite i have had , a few nips here and there , but worth the effort as I ask him for kisses and he kisses me every time with a enjoyable clicking sound . Now to train my 10 mth old congo ive had a few nips but not as bad my first .

[murfchck]

Okay. Its official! I am out of places to put bandaids on my hands! I am joining this club and need to know where to buy the shirt! Tomorrow morning i plan on going in to face her looking like a goal player on a hockey team! Oh my God, she killed me today, and i was bragging on how good she has been!

[Wingy]

Okay. Its official! I am out of places to put bandaids on my hands! I am joining this club and need to know where to buy the shirt! Tomorrow morning i plan on going in to face her looking like a goal player on a hockey team! Oh my God, she killed me today, and i was bragging on how good she has been!

 

Which goal tender are you? :snicker: (Being bit isn't funny or fun but I couldn't resist.)

 

[murfchck]

Marty Turko, Dallas Stars of course! Lol

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Why didn't I think of that ten years ago? Where were you guys? LOL Nancy

[CLB]

I have been a standing member of this club since Shadow first came to live with us. However, I have avoided a bite for quite some time. I have been using a stick to move Shadow around and she has been very happy to comply. Until today....I swear she was possessed. LOL Her level of determination was rather humorous especially since I no longer take her advances personally. I was on the phone with the insurance company working on a new policy when Shadow in typical fashion came down off her cage and marched herself toward me...I presume she was after my orange toes. I offered her her step up stick, she complied and I relocated her. This went on 3-4 more times before she actually got close enough to my toes that I felt her brush against my foot. Again I had her step up on her stick and moved her back to her perch. I could tell she was getting frustrated as this time, she bit the stick before she stepped off. We continued this game as I was still trying to confirm my new insurance without too much fussing over the antics of my bird. Shadow was simply determined to get me. Luckily the agent put me on hold just before the final step up when, as I stood up with Shadow on her stick, she marched herself to the end of the stick and chomped down on my thumb...I promptly dropped the stick and she went flying. I am sure this was not the best response but sometimes reflexes take over. My son, easily retrieved her with a step up to his hand everything went back to normal. Somehow I feel like I was stuck in the twilight zone with my darling little grey monster!

Gotta love that grey.

[taco333]

Need some advice about Taco, our 3 1/2 year old CAG. She (we think) has been a very sweet bird since we brought her home with only the occasional bites and nips. But...the past few days she has turned into Evil Taco, biting me on the lip when we play "kisses" and chasing me around to stike at my arm or leg. She plays well with my husband and decided to bite him this morning too. Nothing has changed - same food, same routine, same toys. I have been leaving the room when she does this and coming back to reengage her after a short period of time. Could this be a teenager behavior?

[birdhouse]

Welcome to the club Taco333. I'm sorry you're having a problem w/Taco. And yes, terrible 3's seem to be as bad as terrible 2's sometimes. But another possible consideration is hormones. It is the right time of the year for them to make some fids a little unstable. Ok, downright bananas in some cases. lol

 

With a few spontaneous exceptions, this thread tends to be something more like comic relief & the occasional pity party, than a good place to get serious feedback about specific episodes, though. You might want to post your own thread. I think you might find you'll get you more detailed feedback & suggestions that way.

[taco333]

Thanks birdhouse. I thought of hormones but heard that should occur at 5 or 6 years of age. I'm just trying to be patient and let her have her space but it's really hard since we used to be very close. Guess it's just a stage. Thanks for the advice!

[birdhouse]

It doesn't have to be one or the other, unfortunately. And yes, it's even harder for a parront when their previously sweet fid turns like that. Best to try not to take it personally & just remember that you've got a pretty decent support group here if you need help.

[Sarasota]

Thanks birdhouse. I thought of hormones but heard that should occur at 5 or 6 years of age. I'm just trying to be patient and let her have her space but it's really hard since we used to be very close. Guess it's just a stage. Thanks for the advice!

 

There is fluctuating opinion/information on when African Greys reach sexual maturity depending on the source. But it's generally between 3 to 7 years (3 being low and seven being a late bloomer). They can exhibit breeding behavior before reaching sexual maturity. I have a 2 1/2 year old bird that regularly tries to breed with the top of my head.

 

Now is the time for very deep breaths and patience.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I think it is a GREAT idea, to start a thread... sexual maturity vs terrible two's.I nominate taco333! Nancy