The Parrot "Bite Me!!!" Club

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Depends on the age. Older than one, less than two, welcome to the terrible twos. They suck! BUT if a molting issue, ask dave, dan and Judy. They are experts. Terrible two's, I'm good at. If your bird desires your company and wants to hang with you, I believe in timeout. A bite... timeout! NOT in their cage where they have toys to play with, but a " timeout cage". No toys... life stinks in their opinion. ( must be large enough for bird). One minute for every year. Discuss after, makeup time with snuggles usually on birds part. Also important for other family members that bird likes to be onboard with the punishment. Consistensy is key. Sophie always tried to get other family members to " take pity!". They would call me at work declaring an " emergency!" No emergency.... they just didn't want to put her in timeout. It took six months for Sophie to stop her biting issue, but it wasn't molting. Sophie has never been in timeout since she was 2.5. We dealt with it aggressively and effectively. Nancy

[bluedawg]

Thanks Nancy, Dayo will be three this May. And I think she is molting as well but still she has not really learned not to bite. My giving her a stern "NO BITE" just seams to entertain her. This method sounds promising. Today she is all full of love and sweetness. Day before yesterday was one bite after another. Seams like moodiness which could be either terrible twos or molting right?

[Acappella]

I suspect the " ow ow" after she bites is entertaining to her, especially as she's repeating it to you. Stop doing it, just say " gentle" with a really sad face and sad body language and walk her to her cage. Then ignore her for a few minutes, back turned or leave the room. There has to be no entertaining payoff for her after she bites. She has to lose something she values, if only for a couple of minutes, when her behaviour is out of line, and in this case it's time with, and attention from, her flock. Be 100% consistent when she bites and the behaviour should extinguish. ( Of course, then she'll find another way to test you, that's what a grey toddler does Lol)

[bluedawg]

Lol. Thanks, this is all so very helpful

[bluedawg]

Well I just started implementing the "Time Outs". Dayo just went in for her Third time out in just a few hours. I feel awful. It is emotionally very difficult to do. I am using her clear Lucite Carrying Case since she hates that. I think she's not yet connecting the bad behavior with the time out.

[Brat Birds]

She will connect it!! I am beginning to think that some greys just have a day or two a month when they are going to bite! Mine did it again last week. After his time out - which once last the rest of the day (he was in his regular cage), he is just as loving as ever. Just like our kids they each have their own personality and I think, some of them are just going to bite once in a while! LOL

[Acappella]

Maybe saying "gentle, no bite" right at the time she bites, and again right as she goes into timeout, it will help her connect everything.

[bluedawg]

Yes, thank you. I am feeling like we make real progress today. I am sure the sentiment will come and go but so far so good. She looks at me when I am taking her out of her time out like.. "Well, what'd you do that for???" Talk about Anthropomorphism. We have our little upbeat chat about biting then I put her back on her perch play area and she slow motion steps off without biting looking still stunned from the time out then she shakes it off and it's back to play time.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

bluedawg... good job! Be tough and firm and CONSISTENT! It in the long run, is harder on us then them. Every bite.... timeout! Sophie was doing five or six timeouts a day. As far as Dayo saying OW OW!... thats what Sophie did when she started to connect her bite hurt! For me... thats progress. I don't think your bird is mimicking... but connecting the dots! After this exhausting consistency, six months later, Sophie was sitting on my wrist, starting biting the air, saying " NO NO bite! No bite to me. I did a celebration dance, yelled for kids to come down to tell them...they all thought I was crazy.I praised Sophie like crazy told her how happy she just made me. I'm sure SHE thought I was crazy, but that was her last bite. I KNEW it! Since then.... I am proud to say, I have the bird I always desired. Does she chew things I don't want her too? Of course. BUT... I can pick her up off of inside, outside of her cage. I don't have to ask her to stepup... her foot is always up and ready. She will hang upside down off my hand, will interupt my nap on the couch with her own snoring... I could go on and on. Sophie is amazing, and more than I could ever expect! Nancy

[Muse]

My latest Parrot Bite Me Club "dues". Since a picture is worth a thousand words:

 

Bite to the arm given on Wednesday. I was sick and she was on her stand in the bedroom. She kept climbing on her sleep cage next to the stand and heading for the floor. I put her back a few times then finally decided she was going in the sleep cage. She decided she was going to make me pay for putting her in the cage. Luckily we had the needle-sharp tip of the beak trimmed just a week before. It barely broke skin but left a dime-sized knot under the skin and a bruise.

This picture was taken tonight. The knot has gone down but the bruise is still turning pretty colors and is tender.

 

Then there was the thumb. We'd gotten up and I was taking her down stairs perched on my left hand, and she decided she was going to bend down and chomp the tip of my thumb. Only a tiny scratch but the thumbnail throbbed for a good long time.

The first picture is from Wednesday and the next one from tonight.

 

I am guessing it has something to do with Daddy being gone more the past couple of weeks. Somehow this must be my fault.

[bluedawg]

Nancy, another question... How did you determine which bites warrant a time out? Dayo is very mouthy... Always feeling and communicating with her mouth. The range is from soft loving to holding on while she swings someplace to a squeeze harder than you'd like but more of a communication than an aggression to a full out aggressive lunge bite. I would only like to give her a time out for the full out lunge bite. What say you?

[bluedawg]

Hello Muse, yup. I've gotten those punishment bites as well. Sometimes Dayo gives me a bite when I put her in the cage and sometimes even when I take her out if she was really pissed about being in there. Usually I have learned to turn my hand quickly to avoid most bite attempts but when they get you on the arm like that... Ouch!

[Muse]

Hello Muse, yup. I've gotten those punishment bites as well. Sometimes Dayo gives me a bite when I put her in the cage and sometimes even when I take her out if she was really pissed about being in there. Usually I have learned to turn my hand quickly to avoid most bite attempts but when they get you on the arm like that... Ouch!

 

Well, I guess she felt that wasn't enough. Tonight, she was on daddy's head, and he was joking around with me and leaned forward as I was kissing her. I am not sure if she was losing her balance and grabbed for a hold, but it looked like a fast lunge to me. She got me by the lower lip. I go for my first appointment with my new doctor tomorrow. Healthcare providers are trained to look for signs of spousal abuse. LOL. I suspect I am going to have to convince him that my husband isn't beating me up.

 

She did get a short time out in the sleeping cage, then I made her get in her downstairs cage when she should have been in daddy's office with him, or out of the cage with me. She was not pleased but oddly enough, did not try to retaliate or protest going in. I think she knew mama had that "not happy face" on, and generally when that happens, every living thing in the house moves to get out of mama's way. It also bled profusely, even with immediate application of ice and pressure. It may be a while before she gets a kiss from mama. >.<

 

Here's the damage:

 

 

It smarts a bit. Daddy came downstairs about an hour later and was surprised to find us both in the kitchen, cooking birdie muffins (actually human muffins but being made for birdies). He seemed surprised that she was out of her time out.

 

When I took her in the kitchen she kept saying "I love you." To which I replied, "I don't believe you. You just bit me in the face!" And her reply? She CHUCKLED! Evil little bird....

[Muse]

Hello Muse, yup. I've gotten those punishment bites as well. Sometimes Dayo gives me a bite when I put her in the cage and sometimes even when I take her out if she was really pissed about being in there. Usually I have learned to turn my hand quickly to avoid most bite attempts but when they get you on the arm like that... Ouch!

 

Well, I guess she felt that wasn't enough. Tonight, she was on daddy's head, and he was joking around with me and leaned forward as I was kissing her. I am not sure if she was losing her balance and grabbed for a hold, but it looked like a fast lunge to me. She got me by the lower lip. I go for my first appointment with my new doctor tomorrow. Healthcare providers are trained to look for signs of spousal abuse. LOL. I suspect I am going to have to convince him that my husband isn't beating me up.

 

She did get a short time out in the sleeping cage, then I made her get in her downstairs cage when she should have been in daddy's office with him, or out of the cage with me. She was not pleased but oddly enough, did not try to retaliate or protest going in. I think she knew mama had that "not happy face" on, and generally when that happens, every living thing in the house moves to get out of mama's way. It also bled profusely, even with immediate application of ice and pressure. It may be a while before she gets a kiss from mama. >.<

 

Here's the damage:

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It smarts a bit. Daddy came downstairs about an hour later and was surprised to find us both in the kitchen, cooking birdie muffins (actually human muffins but being made for birdies). He seemed surprised that she was out of her time out.

 

When I took her in the kitchen she kept saying "I love you." To which I replied, "I don't believe you. You just bit me in the face!" And her reply? She CHUCKLED! Evil little bird....

[Timbersmom]

Ouch! I have to say that even now that Timber wants routine cuddling and he hasn't bit me for sometime, I wouldn't let my face anywhere near him. My trust just doesn't extend that far!

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Muse... I would suggest a separate cage from sleeping cage. That cage is for sleeping and should be welcoming and comforting.Get a cage off of Craigs list for timeout. Remember, one year for every minute. Sophie averaged five. ALWAYS discuss after. I'm sure Sophie didn't understand what I was saying, but she knew I wasn't upset anymore.It can never be about being angry or upset. As far as her falling off daddy... you did what we all would do. You were trying to keep her safe. Unfortunately, you had a panicking bird and you got the shortend of the stick! How is your lip? Nancy

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

bluedawg... Sophie also communicates with her mouth. Kisses with her beak...rubbing my hand with her beak.... trying to regurg on an especially funday. I let her in my hand and thank her. Bad bites only, for timeout. When you feel his beak is too hard, give Dayo warning... " NO DAYO!" After six months of being consistent with " NO BITE" and timeout...if Sophie ran across the room with her beak opened ready to take a chunk out of coffee table, I can say " NO SOPHIE!" You should see her take a right or left turn! She knows what no means. Have I trained Sophie with behavior modification? I suspect I did. I'm okay with that!

Remember all... timeout may not work for everyone! It certainly won't work for a bird that has not established a relationship with you.It certainly should never be in their home or somewhere they are happy to be. Their homes are to be respected, and they will only be confused.Timeout worked for us as a family, as Sophie desired to be with all of us for certain reasons. We all had something Sophie desired. Nancy

[Acappella]

If the lip bite was a lunge, I'm betting you missed some body language that might have warned you. She may have been over-excited about being on Daddy's head (which I wouldn't do, but we chose our battles and fight them one at a time). Have you read the sticky in the Training room of the forum on body language? Really paying attention to Dorian's body language has helped us go for a loooong time without a bite. I think the last real bite was when I had to remove him from a place he really wanted to be and couldn't safely be. You may be right about her losing her grip, or maybe she thought you were coming in to take her away from daddy. I rarely go in for a kiss from Dorian unless he's in a beak grindingly good mood, and if there's any doubt I restrict myself to a kiss on a wing. Sorry about your bumps and bruises. How incredulous was your doctor when you admitted how you got them?

[bluedawg]

After a few days of using the time- out cage Dayo has learned when I am going to put her in it and flies away which leads to a chase around the house and what started as one bite turns into 5-10 by the time I get her in the cage and by which time she has no idea what she's going in for and she's scared and upset. I'm thinking this is not the solution for us.

[Mistyparrot]

Misty is going through a phase where I have to chase him to put him in his cage at night even after he has told me it is "Bed time". But he never ever bites in the process. He gives in gracefully but he is not keen on being locked up! It is the same if he is going in for time out because he has bit me! He still goes in. He is not happy but he goes in without resorting to further biting. On the other hand if I put out his bathing tray, a large cat litter box, and fill it from a bucket he will dive at my hands and bite at my fingers! This is odd because he loves his bath and loves to play in it. I am assuming he just gets over exited at the prospect! Sometimes water does excite him.

 

Steve n Misty

Edited March 12, 2014 by Mistyparrot

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Sometimes foraging toys doesnt work, they are stuck to you like velcro. Sophie has no interest in toys, but she LOVES to destroy. Anything paper shredding is good for Sophie. When I vacumn, Sophie is on my wrist. Its been this way forever.

she has been on my shoulder forever with trust. but vacumning, she goes for the wrist.f she falls off... she just runs...climbs up my leg and back where she wants to be. Nancy

[danie169]

My 1 year old boy that I picked him up 2 days ago tried to bite me yestardy when iI was getting close with my finger to ask him to step up. He had obeyed that comand a few times before.

Can I join the club?

The fact of me trying again the same thing I did and triggered his bite intentions, right away, aI guess is a very abad idea with a parrot...right? ( sorry! I had dogs only all my life)

Edited March 24, 2014 by danie169

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

In my opinion... they are easier than you think! If you can't have open cage that we have, then work off the gym. No owner should EVER put their hand inside their cage. Thats a bite! Its their home. Work off the door, or gym. Of course, now Sophie stepsup off of her gym, cage, anything. Develop the mutual trust. Nancy

[Muse]

Muse... I would suggest a separate cage from sleeping cage. That cage is for sleeping and should be welcoming and comforting.Get a cage off of Craigs list for timeout. Remember, one year for every minute. Sophie averaged five. ALWAYS discuss after. I'm sure Sophie didn't understand what I was saying, but she knew I wasn't upset anymore.It can never be about being angry or upset. As far as her falling off daddy... you did what we all would do. You were trying to keep her safe. Unfortunately, you had a panicking bird and you got the shortend of the stick! How is your lip? Nancy

 

The lip healed up nicely. And she has not bitten me since. I think the tone of voice and the infamous 'not-happy-face' scared her, lol. Afterwards we had some time together in the kitchen, and even shared a snack.

 

We are looking for another Grey now. I notice her missing Mar in little ways. She looks unkempt, especially her head and around the neck, which she never did before as he always preened her. She has no one to preen her now. And she does not want to stay in the playroom, because it means being alone. I am praying we can find a friend for her that she will accept. That is going to be the difficult part.

[Muse]

In my opinion... they are easier than you think! If you can't have open cage that we have, then work off the gym. No owner should EVER put their hand inside their cage. Thats a bite! Its their home. Work off the door, or gym. Of course, now Sophie stepsup off of her gym, cage, anything. Develop the mutual trust. Nancy

 

Megan only bites my hand in the cage if I am filling a food bowl, oddly enough. If I reach in for a step up, she will either politely decline or come to me, but she doesn't bite. If she *needs* to step up (as in we are going to the vet or to bed) and she declines, I add the phrase "right now" and she knows that changes the syntax from request to command and she complies. I have yet to figure out what the deal is with me pouring food into the bowl or why that triggers a bite. And I have tried different methods. Using a cup, pouring the food from my hand, changing the whole bowl (usually when I am doing this it is one of those 'locking crock' bowls, that you MUST reach in because they don't have a 'door' in the cage - they just have a holder that is bolted to the side. I learned quickly that the bowls with doors get opened from the safety of OUTSIDE the cage. The other day she actually let me reach in an fill a foraging toy while she was in the cage without a bite. That surprise me as I figured it would be viewed as similar to putting food in a bowl. Evidently not. But if I am trying to put her INTO the cage? It is ON! If she does not want to go, then there is a good probability that a bite will happen. What I have started doing since that last forearm chomp is quietly explaining WHY I need her to go back, in a quiet voice, and reassuring her I will come back to get her as soon as I can. I am not sure how much she understands, but so far this is working.

 

Mar was so sweet, I could go in to his cage by opening the front panel and kiss him and give him scritches. He had not one bit of cage aggression in his body. And if I reached in to fill his food? It wasn't a bite I worried about, it was how to pour the food into the bowl with his head in it. I always said he was a puppy in a bird's body. He did bite daddy for putting him back, but never me. Which is odd, because he preferred to spend time on daddy more than me.

 

Today we did some recall reinforcement using the model/rival method with Alex, who pretty reliably recalls, as the model/rival. Megan did great after some coaxing, but then when we finished, she decided she needed more rewards, and flew to my SHOULDER and leaned in for a kiss (something she does that also earns her a pine nut). After the bite to the lip, I have been a bit spooked and had to catch myself from pulling quickly away. I gave her the kiss, and the pine nut, but told her she was not allowed on my shoulder because she bit me in the face. She flew back to her veranda almost as if she understood what I said. But without a bite! That made me happy.