Advice Please?!?!? Sunflower seeds and nuts?

[Leia]

I would like to know exactly how unhealthy sunflower seeds and nuts are? I bought a fruit, nut and seed mix for my bird as a treat, but ever since i've fed her them she cries and nags for me to give it to her every day. i've read and been told that too much sunflower seeds are bad for caged birds because they are high in fat and lead to liver problems. the problem is that when i try to stop her, she nags and nags. i dont know whether i should just give it to her, but my heart tells me that it may make her suffer later on in her life, and im doing her an injustice by giving in to her? but i dont know how to deal with the nagging. am i doing the right thing?

[judygram]

How is she nagging you? They are just like children, they are gonna throw a tantrum to get what they want, plain and simple don't give in to her whims. Since that is all she seems to want to eat continue to give her some but give her more healthy foods and gradually over time reduce the amount of seeds you give her. She won't starve herself but you are going to have to ignore her "nagging":pinch:

[she]

Too many nuts and sunflower seeds are not good for your grey.Think of them like chocolate bars are to us.A treat now and then does no harm but if you over indulge problems crop up.Feed healthy food and ignore the tantrums.

[lovethatgrey]

I do not provide a "seed, nut and dried fruit mixture" but I do occasionally give my parrots organic sunflower seeds mixed in with their fresh vegetables.

[Luvparrots]

I don't give my fids sunflower seeds, I prefer the safflower seeds, hulled oats and cracked corn. I also purchase Nutriberries Garden Veggie Nutriberry which my fids love. Perhaps something like that would work for your grey instead of sunflower seeds and nuts.

[danmcq]

Leia wrote:

I would like to know exactly how unhealthy sunflower seeds and nuts are?

 

They are in fact healthy for your bird in moderation. Seeds and nuts are a staple of all birds diet in the wild.

 

The key here is moderation. A little seed and nut mix is fine each day. But, the biggest portions they eat should be veggies, bean, oat, barley etc. mixes and a little fruit. Add pellets to that and your Grey will be eating a well rounded diet.

 

Basically, the idea is to try and duplicate all the different foods they would eat in the wild each day :-)

[Leia]

You see the problem is that i’ve tried to slowly reduce the amount by only give her a little along side healthy food, but she refuses to touch her veges or pellets at all and once her nuts and seeds are finished she cries for more my quacking and moving her head up and down. I know thats a food cry. She continues to do that until i give her more. But i realised its a problem when she became reliant on it as her only food source. I decided that moderation is not working and stopped it. But ever since i have, 2 days now, she quacks and whistles continuously for hours on end and every time i put food in her bowl she rushes to see whats inside and when its not the sunflower seeds she continues to cry. I thought she would have stopped after half an hour, that she would get tired of crying but today she cried for 7 hours literally nonstop, no exaggerations. She’ll follow me around the house, crying to be carried and when i carry her she screams in my ear. I tried putting her in her cage and covering her to calm her down but that does not work, she carries on as soon as i open it. Its as if she is a drug addict having withdrawal symptoms. Im starting to question whether the supplier could have drugged the food. I know it sound far fetched, but shes really acting strange. I know she cant be sick, she just wants that mix.

[Tycos_mom]

Have you tried Zupreem fruity pellet most birds take to them readily I know they are the only kind of pellets my birds will eat and believe me I've tried them all. I had to cut my Severe macaw off an all seed diet so I know what you going through. I almost think its better just to take them away completely so they don't have any choice but to eat the good stuff. If you give them just a little then they get a taste they want more but if you don't give them that taste in the first place the will eat something else they don't have a choice.

[Leia]

Thanks for your advice everyone. In reply to tycos_mom, I'm really glad someone understands what I'm going through. I agree that it's best they don't get a taste of it at all, but I wasn't so wise previous to this. I guess some greys are more persistant in getting what they want than other greys.

 

An update for everyone else, I visited the avian vet today to ask if I'm going about this the right way. And he said sunflower seeds are very very damaging for greys in terms of liver problems. They are ok for other parrots like cockatiels, but in his view a grey should not have even a little because once they get a tasteof it again, it will lead to the same problems when taken away. He says I'm doing the right thing by stopping her completely, I just have to be strong. She will go on a hunger strike for about 4 days and throw tantrums. That is typical grey behavour. But eventually she'll realise she can't get her way and eat the food that's there. Just thought I'd share what he said.

[Leia]

Oh I forgot to mention that I don't think we get the zupreme fruity pellet here in Africa. We get other makes, I guess I have to keep trying until I find one that works for my grey. Thanks for sharing though

[lovethatgrey]

I give a sprinkle of sunflower seeds every week to my parrots. They really enjoy it and are fine when it isn't around.

 

Here's an article with some additional info.

 

http://www.africangreys.com/articles/nutrition/sunflower.htm

[karunk]

Leia.. i was in your situation not long ago.. my bird wouldnt eat anything other than seed food.. and i had to buy a big bag of seeds and place it at his vicinity so that he ate atleast that.. i know it hurts when he doesnt eat what you want him to.. the best way is to patiently wean him out of this situation..

 

1. Initially give him seeds mixed with healthy food, with seeds being the most part of the food.. its ok if he doesnt have the other foods.. if his beak touches the texture of the other food bits, that more than sufficient for a start..

2. try having the healthy food bits in front of him and make sure you show enthusiasm when you eat it.. one day or the other his curiosity will get the better of him, and he will soon want to atleast try what you enjoy so much..in that scenario dont give him the food straightaway, but tease him by offering it and the plucking it off his reach and have it in front of him..

3. After some instances of these acts, you can allow him to taste it..

4. try this act when you know he is hungry without him having had the seed mix, say in the morning!!

 

i am not sure how much my advise helped.. but these steps have certainly helped me in the last couple of weeks.. dont lose hope.. and be patient.. yours seems to be a bit more intense problem than I had with chikki.. so it might take longer than 2 weeks.. also remember, 7 hours is not a big time in terms of parrots' food cycle.. when the birds are out, they start feeling extremely hungry only after 3 days of no food!!

[Leia]

Thanks karunk, your advise did help, but i think my situation is alot more severe than your greys situation. Having read the article that love that grey posted a link to, i appreciate that sunflower seeds have alot of nutritional value. But in my greys situation, she became more demanding when she got a taste of it, and i gave in not knowing the dangers. i have done ALOT of reading on sunflower seeds, and some say its good, some say its bad, some say only good in balance. But the general feeling i am getting is that our birds dont get half the ammount of exercise birds in the wild get, therefore sunflower seeds are more harmful to our birds if we cannot exercise control. And in my case i cannot exercise control because the minute my grey gets a taste the mood swings and tantrum begin. i cannot allow her to have it because of the possible liver damage it could cause. The article was written by Alex's owner i assume, and alex died at the premature age of 31 due to "natural causes". I am no1 to judge, but my mind questions what the natural causes could have been. Also the article mentioned that sunflower seeds act as a calming agent and good for deppression, anxiety and mental health. Well my grey is acting like a recovering addict right now. so in my view it was acting as a drug for her. I respect all those that are able to exercise control in providing sunflower seeds for their birds, but my case is different. My bird is addicted to sunflower seeds and evn though i used to put other foods along side the sunflower seeds initially, she did not touch them and waited for her next batch of sunflower seeds. initially i thought its ok, as long as she is eating. but now i regret ever having bought the sunflower seeds in the first place.

 

Thanks for all of your advise everyone.

[danmcq]

I understand your concern and reasons for wanting to take seeds out of your Grey's diet at this point.

 

However, I would recommend monitoring the weight daily and carefully first thing each morning after the first poop. I have never heard a vet to advise a person to just give pellets and wait up to 4 days for your bird to eat some of them. Most vet's would recommend a slow transition while monitoring the weight.

 

With that said, I just want to point out a fact about Parrots and why they have a hook bill. The evolution of the large and powerful hook bill can be explained primarily as an adaptation to opening and consuming seeds. All true parrots except the Pesquet's Parrot employ the same method to obtain the seed from the husk. The seed is held between the mandibles and the lower mandible crushes the husk, whereupon the seed is rotated in the bill and the remaining husk is removed.

 

A foot is sometimes used to help holding large seeds in place. Parrots are seed predators rather than seed dispersers, unlike other birds that consume seeds whole and many are undigested. In many cases where parrot species are recorded as consuming fruit, they are only eating the fruit to get at the seed.

 

All Parrots go through food "Favorite" stages, just like people. The problem with a parrot, is they will not control themselves, like a human will (well sometimes we don't control ourselves either). The point is, you can safely "moderate" any food for your bird and in fact you must to ensure your parrot does have a well rounded diet.

 

To accomplish this, you must rotate what is available, when it is available and yes even down to how long it will be available in minutes perhaps.

 

A bird fed only a 100 percent pellet diet, is not a healthy parrot, regardless of what pellet manufactures may claim. In fact, I may get flack for this, but I believe it is cruel and health detrimental over a long period of time to do so.

 

The only thing I see a pellet diet doing is for "Humans", not the birds. Is it is very convenient for those lazy people that just like to pour some pellets, give fresh water and their done with the feeding chore. You see this in keeping of all pets, like dogs, cats, hamsters, rabbits etc. It is not truly healthy for any of them.

 

Now before everyone that feeds pellets (myself included) goes crazy thinking I am calling them lazy, I AM NOT. :-)

 

I believe and know for the most part. That all members here and most Parrot loving people provide a very rich and bountiful dining experience for their much loved parrots. They spend hours cutting up veggies, fruits, cooking up great bean, oat, quinoa, barley etc. mixes and keeping their birds diet exciting and varied all the time.

 

My entire point of this response. Is to ensure all know that a parrots beak was and still is designed for eating those seeds and nuts they run across in their daily foraging travels that includes and mixture of seeds, nuts, veggies, fruits etc. So let's try and duplicate as best we can, what they eat and experience in the wild. :-)

[Titch]

you could sprout the sunflower seeds.. then they become healthier

[danmcq]

Titch wrote:

you could sprout the sunflower seeds.. then they become healthier

 

You could sprout an unprocessed sunflower seed, but the sprout would not contain the beneficial nutrients, protein and oils of the seed.

[lovethatgrey]

This is merely my opionion but I don't think that "sunflower seeds" or any kind of food is the problem in this matter.

 

One thing that I have learned from being a parrot owner is that changes often must be done in babysteps. Some parrots "graduate or move on faster" and some don't as in the case of your Leia. In captivity, the parrot owner plays an important role in nurturing the baby parrot through this process to help make it as seamless and stressfree as possible.

 

Weaning is an EXTREMELY stressful time for all parrots. It affects them physically, psychologically and most of all emotionallly. I understand that your parrots is still very young. My parrot weaned at 23 months old. When she decided that she was done then she was done. When she was 10 weeks old, a bowl of seed mix that included sunflower seeds was put in her little cage everyday along with her bowl of pellets. From the time that she was 8 weeks old she always had hard foods like her pellets and vegetables, to play, sample and explore with. She eventually refused her formula on her own. When she came home to live with me I allowed her to eat autonomously for at least 5 months before I made the decision to remove or decrease food that she was accustomed or attached to.

 

Regarding fatty liver disease, if your parrot does not already have a pre-existing condition.. I doubt that she will develop it in this short period of time. Fatty liver disease takes many years to develop and is often a result of many years of very bad dietary habits.

 

I think the priority right now would be to ensure that your parrot is confident, and stressfree. Stress affects the immune system and makes her more susceptible to illnesses and diseases.

 

I am not advocating that you give her a 100% sunflower diet. I am simply saying to start from scratch and reduce the sunflower seed mix in weekly intervals rather than remove them cold turkey.

 

Regarding sunflower seeds, I give them raw as well as sprouted to my parrots. Sprouting the seed converts it into a different type of "live" food and is as nutritious as well.

 

I also wanted to add that both of my parrots are flighted and pretty active even if only indoors. Their food bowls are located in their cages and they do not spend alot of time in their cages where their food is located.

 

 

Post edited by: lovethatgrey, at: 2009/09/13 17:58

 

Post edited by: lovethatgrey, at: 2009/09/13 17:59<br><br>Post edited by: lovethatgrey, at: 2009/09/13 20:25

[Titch]

danmcq wrote:

Titch wrote:

you could sprout the sunflower seeds.. then they become healthier

 

You could sprout an unprocessed sunflower seed, but the sprout would not contain the beneficial nutrients, protein and oils of the seed.

 

Maybe not the ones pulled from parrot food.. but you could get sunflowers from health stores and sprout those. When you sprout them all the stored up energy for creating life becomes active which releases all the nutrients.

[Leia]

"A bird fed only a 100 percent pellet diet, is not a healthy parrot, regardless of what pellet manufactures may claim. In fact, I may get flack for this, but I believe it is cruel and health detrimental over a long period of time to do so."

 

I understand your concern but i really dont feed my grey only pellets, i feed her a variety of different veges which change from day to day. i simply provide the pellets along side to provide a more well rounded and balanced diet because pellets are supposed to have multi vitamins and minerals included in them. i know you werent implying i feed my grey only pellets, but i am just claryfying matters. also as i have said on more than one occassion, i did try to wean my grey off the sunflower seeds slowly, but she just demanded more and was not interested in any of her other food. so given the circumstances i di what i thought fit for the situation.

 

I met 2 year old grey that was a recovering bird that had liver problems and was about to be put down. its really sad and a serious condition for any of our birds tgo have. i'd rather not rriisk that by giving my grey even the slightest chance of getting liver problems.

[Leia]

i respect your opinion. thanks for your advice lovethatgrey. i guess i'll just feel my way arround the situation. Leia seems alot happier and calmer today and is eating well. so hopefully it will stay that way and i wont have to worry about sunflower seeds again. i always monitor my birds weight and everyone that has seen her so far says she looks very healthy compared to other greys they have seen, so im sure she's fine. she hasnt lost any weight either and her dropping seem very healthy too.

[danmcq]

Hi Leia,

 

I am glad you understood I was not addressing you. :-)

 

Just to clarify what causes fatty liver disease. I is not from just sunflower seeds. Parrots suffering from this, are typically obese.

 

The parrot species most commonly affected are the Amazon parrots, Quakers, budgerigars, cockatiels, lovebirds and Rose-breasted cockatoos.

 

It seems that more females than males are affected and this may have something to do with hormonal activity in the reproductive hen.

 

A diet HIGH in seed tends to result in obese birds, so sedentary seed eaters are more likely to end up with fatty livers. Seed diets tend to be high in fat and low in the nutrients biotin, choline and methionine.

 

Over-eating (consuming more calories than are expended daily) can also cause fatty-liver. This means it is NOT just related to seed and nut being in the diet.

 

Metabolic diseases (such as thyroid dysfunction, although poorly described and rarely diagnosed by specialized testing and diabetes mellitus) may also cause fatty liver problems.

 

Toxin exposure (usually long-term) can also result fatty liver disease. Aflatoxins, found in some peanuts and other products, such as corn, can cause repeated insult to the liver, so if fed over time, these toxins may result in permanent liver damage or hepatic lipidosis.

 

Hereditary factors may also play a role in liver dysfunction. Infectious diseases, such as Chlamydophila psittaci, and others that affect the liver, can cause chronic changes over time.

 

The key is moderation. Also, African Greys are not prone to being over weight. Especially if you keep them active with lots of toy fun and being flighted means burning tons of calories and staying in tip top fitness.

[buddy3707]

Well i went to the vet just because my grey was pulling all his feathers out,and he told me because of the unhealthy food such as nuts and seeds.I think your best bet is to stop giving leia nuts and seeds completly that's what i had to to to my grey.

[dw310]

When training your CAG, what do you use for a treat?

[Jayd]

To begin, I have to agree with Danmcq, She and lovethatgrey and the others who have given you good advice regarding moderation in all foods. Due to Spock's inability to accept all the nutrients his body needs, a special diet has been developed for him by two vets and two CAS's. and many, many hours of research and blood tests to check nutrient levels. One of the foods that Spock gets in his daily diet is a 1/2 teaspoon of hulled sunflower seeds. By themselves, they can be detrimental but they are rich in essential fatty acids (EFT) along with other nuts included in his diet. Some of the following information is provided by Pamela Clark, CVT,CPBC

"Essential Fatty Acids (EFA) your Omega 6 and 3, companion greys need an adequate amount of EFA's which are easily destroyed by heat, air and light which eliminates pellets as a complete source of EFA's. Walnuts, Brazil nuts, pumpkin seeds, canola oil supply, in moderation, EFA's."

"An average companion Grey's diet should be 18 to 21% protein. Wild Greys feed on a variety of seeds, nuts, fruits, berries and plants. A favorite wild diet is oil palms. These fruits contain 90% oil and they are high in Vitamin A and EFA's."

Again, in moderation, nuts and sunflower seeds are the main source of EFA's. A diet that consists of vegetables, pellets, nuts, seeds and fruits, with fruit as a small portion of their diet is a well-balanced diet. The best fruits are the true berries (blackberries, blueberries, rasberries). For our companion Greys who won't accept pellets, besides Harrison's , Nutri-berries are an excellent replacement for pellets.

Someday I will do a post about how different vegetables bring out and compliment other vegetables. Remember, lots of dark green leafy vegetables, beta-carotene.

Jayd<br><br>Post edited by: Jayd, at: 2010/03/22 23:21

[timotian]

in recent years the incidence of atherosclerosis has increased in cage birds,such as psittaciformes.it is often because of lack of exercise and inappropriate,high fat diets.the major arteries become thickened with cholesterol deposits,their lumen diameter decreases and they become less elastic,so blood presure increases.