TAG and CAG personalities

[harmonicaman68]

Terri and I were recently adopted by a TAG (Ziva) and while cruising the internet there are many with opinions about differences in the personalities of CAGs and TAGs. Since many of those articles were direct copies of each other, I assume they aren't from first hand experience as with the comments on the Grey Forums site.

 

I noticed that Dave007 has two CAGS and a TAG in his (what do I look like?" photo), and his posts have been VERY helpful. There are probably others on the forum who have both CAGS and TAGs as well. In general (I know there are specifics to each bird type), is there a REAL difference in personalities of CAGs and TAGs? Or do the articles that state TAGS are more laid back just result from the fact that there are far more CAGS than TAGs who have adopted humans to this point ... and therefore the perception that TAGs are less nervous, because fewer articles have been written about them?

 

My mentor, says no real personality or intelligence differences exist ... and that there is more difference that results because of the style of raising the CAG or TAG than through the genetics. My observations (though limited) have shown the intelligence seems to be the same and many of the personality traits. The Greys I've met seem to know specific humans and recognize strangers in much the same same respect as a human child would (with a healthy dose of skepticism in the Grey) that is present (and may go beyond) that of children depending on experiences and age of the child.

 

Can anyone with experience comment on differences and similarities in CAGs and TAGs?

[SchroedersJen]

While i only own a tag, I have worked with both. Both birds are too smart for our own good. There are lots of theories on their differences being real or imagined, but the bottom line is that there isn't enough data to be sure. I really don't think there is a difference except for the fact that dark tag feathers and muted tag tails make it easier for them to hide when they are in trouble.

[harmonicaman68]

I saw the reference on another topic that took me to http://www.africangreys.com/legend.htm

 

It was a very interesting article discussing the possibility that the only real differences result from CAGs needing and extra 6 months to fully mature and join the flock. It hypothesized that a "nanny CAG" might solve some of the nervous behavior by socializing (coaching) CAG youngsters the extra 6 months that wild CAGs receive from members of the flock.

 

An interesting read. I wonder if any breeders besides the one mentioned have tried this method?

[harmonicaman68]

Sorry I referenced the wrong article ... the correct reference is http://www.africangreys.com/articles/greys/species.htm

[Tycos_mom]

Every bird has its own personality the Tag and Cag have the same intelligence and the same ability to talk. they do say that the Tags mature faster than the cags I think that's the only real difference except size and beak and tail colour

[harmonicaman68]

It's incredible how quickly the Greys do mature ... whether CAG or TAG. To see the little ones at just 3 or 6 weeks old and how they have developed at 12 weeks old is just amazing. I was talking with Steve Hartman and he mentioned the difference in feather structure of the first feathers as compared with the feathers the birds have after their first molt. Apparently the original feathers are less "quality" in his experience. The Greys (and other parrots) are growing so quickly that the nutrients available to build feathers of quality are lacking. His experience is that the structure of feathers that come in subsequent to the first molt are MUCH higher quality ... even with an excellent diet for the parents and babies.

 

The comments by SchroedersJen and by Tycos_mom that CAGs and TAGs seem to be the same bird are very interesting. With the differences present in other parrot kinds ... why the similarities in Greys? Is there an ecological niche that the TAG fills that CAGs could not or vice versa?

[Raposa]

The breeder Jenna came from breeds both CAG's and TAG's. She has definite opinions about the differences, and her opinions don't necessarily match what I've read elsewhere. These are her own observations, but I thought you might find them interesting

 

http://wendysparrots.com/html/timnehs.html

[harmonicaman68]

Hi Raposa,

 

Thanks for the reference to this article. It's always a joy to read any article when the person is not only has knowledge, but a love for Greys ... or parrots of any type. The joy of learning about these beautiful creatures shows up in the enthusiasm of what they have to say.

[Ragga]

Raposa, I got my TAG from Wendy too!

[Dave007]

******What's the difference between CAGs and TAGs**** It's been asked over and over and over and most of these differences become very obvious as the two types of greys mature. There aren't many chicks of any species that will show their permanent personalities until they're much older and more independent.

 

There are many differences in personalities of the two. Some of those personalities strictly belong to a CAG and some of these personalities strictly belong to a TAG.

The main reason this question has been asked so many times is because there are only 2 types of greys.

 

Lets talk about amazons----there's at least 15 or more different types. About 10 can be easily purchased. On amazon boards, the question of different personalities doesn't come up very often because people have so many types and it's extremely obvious that they have a huge amount of different personalities. Not only do they have a huge amount of different personalities but they also have a huge amount of different health questions--example--DYH are the type that is extremely prone to obesity and must be dealt with differently than an green winged amazon or a yellow naped amazon and aggressiveness is an issue with blue winged amazons and different amazons have totally different personalities as far as being outgoing and curious as opposed to yellow crowned that's totally different in personality.A blue wing amazon doesn't like kids much and will bite. An orange wing amazon is totally the opposite. Some amazons will eagerly accept another species of bird as a friend. Others won't. Some amazon hens will accept another species of chick as their own if a situation arises. That also applies to some grey hens. I own one of those hens and others will become very aggressive when mixed with another species of chicks. A yellow headed amazon may not get along with a yellow naped amazon but all of these classifications are not absolutes because all of these amazons have very different individual personalities just like those 2 types of greys.

So, rather than rattling off all the differences between CAGs and TAGs, I'll only say that it's too bad that there aren't at least 10 to 15 types of African greys to choose from. Differences in personalities really wouldn't make much of a difference. In the wild CAG flocks won't associate with TAG flocks. In the wild CAGs won't breed with TAGs.

[harmonicaman68]

Hi Dave007,

 

Thanks for your insights. As always your comments are very helpful Dave. It's interesting to me that folks talk both about the differences AND the similarities with CAGs and TAGs. As you noted, it's probably because there are only two kinds. For those of us who don't own both kinds, the curiosity is there about the kind we don't have. Are they as playful? Are they as inventive in their ways of interacting with the humans they love or those they are cautious of? Are they more or less accepting of children and if so, what ages seem to be the best accepted? Our Sun Conure, Mali didn't do well with children under 4 years old, and then she reached an age (about 4 or 5 years old) where all children were OK no matter how young. She apparently had enough positive experiences to stop worrying about children ... even children she had never met before.

 

Your insights about other parrots is a bonus. I know some about the different varieties yet you speak to some of the fine points of those personality variations within and between kinds.

 

With Ziva, we're always laughing at her antics. She sees what she wants and lowers her head and races as fast as she can across the counter, or the table or the floor to play and explore as if streamlining herself close to the walking surface will help her get there faster. (she looks like she is preparing to ram her objective or wants to get there before someone says "no"). If she has landed where we have told her she can't play, she becomes headstrong and more determined to check out items she is not allowed to touch. She gives us a look that says "I know I'm not supposed to be here ... you aren't going to stop me again are you?" "What do you mean I can't chew on that cord?"

 

From the clips I've seen posted to Youtube, I see little difference and mostly similarities between CAGs and TAGs, but much of what is posted are examples of talking and since our TAG is only 21 weeks old, I don't have much to compare. (It sounds like that varies from CAG to CAG or TAG to TAG). I'm not as interested in that arena as I am in temperment ... interpersonal relationships with the rest of the human family ... and how to maximize the positive experiences they have with Ziva. Also, if there is a way to socialize Ziva better ... or personality traits that can be avoided or maximized through the way we raise Ziva ... well ... you get the point ...

 

Mostly I want to know if there are differences between CAGs and TAGs because generalizing articles on various parrot varieties abound on the internet. A general article gives me as much or more wrong info as correct info. (you should have seen the wry looks Steve Hartman gave me as I asked some really naive (read "stupid") questions before we were adopted by Ziva. He told me to quit reading internet articles, because my questions didn't even apply to Ziva.) If there are true differences, I want to filter what is directed toward folks owned by CAGs and concentrate on what I need to know as a someone relating to a TAG. Our first day home with Ziva, my wife said we'd better throw out the "playbook" because things were SO much easier than we had been led to expect from the articles we had read about Greys. .... OK, I wasn't reading Grey Forums yet to get the straight scoop .... and the articles discussing biting, screaming, etc were mostly pointed toward selling products, DVDs, CD, "how to videos" etc.

 

Life is much simpler in person ... with real experience ... and with Ziva ... a calm Grey that Steve had socialized with great care before she picked us up.