Another biting topic I need some help.

[cflanny]

ZZero is normally a very good boy. I personally can do anything with him, touch hmm anywhere, ANYTHING. He gets very mad though if I ask him not to do somthing and become obsessed. I step him up take the minor bite( I am not afraid of his beak at all and can take some nips)and move him. This quickly turns into a battle of will so I remove him from the situation and try to get his mind on other things.

 

The bites and attitude are getting worse. he is having a MAJOR molt wings and tails almost done. Now I notice attitude changes when he has major feathers coming in, I respect that and can read his language.

 

Today was different....

he was trying to take a piece off my faucet(ongoing battle) I went to remove him like usual and he refused step up and was flying back and forth between the sink and the curtain rod. I needed to remove him from the bathroom ( SON WAS CLEANING IT AND USING PRODUCTS) so I tried to stay calm and kept going for the step up. He bit the SHIT outta me drew blood for the first time.I walked away for a min, came back went for a step up NOPE, I got a stick and set him in another room and keep going in to check if he has calmed down ( about every 5 min) he is not calming down the second I walk in he puffs and clicks.

 

my question is, What is the proper way to respond to this, what should my reaction be. I tried to let him calm it just wasnt happening.He is still PISSED 30 mins later and I think my behavior was same as I usually handle him. I feel very confused on how to deal with this.....

[Dave007]

You may not like this reply but it needs to be said.

 

""""""Today was different....

he was trying to take a piece off my faucet(ongoing battle) I went to remove him like usual and he refused step up and was flying back and forth between the sink and the curtain rod. I needed to remove him from the bathroom ( SON WAS CLEANING IT AND USING PRODUCTS) so I tried to stay calm and kept going for the step up. He bit the SHIT outta me drew blood for the first time.I walked away for a min, came back went for a step up NOPE, I got a stick and set him in another room and keep going in to check if he has calmed down ( about every 5 min) he is not calming down the second I walk in he puffs and clicks"""""""

 

You'll have to realize that birds don't belong in certain areas where something special is going on. Today it was cleaning--that may mean soaps and other cleaning products.

Tomorrow it could be the kitchen---lots of heat, gas, scalding areas.

The next day it could be where fine clothing or jewelry is or fine furniture is located.

The next day it could be your ears. Of course all of this is hypothetical.

 

"""""my faucet(ongoing battle)""""""

 

It shouldn't be. If you see him doing something that's destructive going on with an item, that means he doesn't belong there nor should he be allowed to touch the item ever.

 

You were seriously bitten and he made you bleed. Do you really think he's sorry he did that? He did this to you in an area that he liked being in and you interupted that fun and joy of going from the sink to the curtain rod. No big deal to you but a very big deal for your bird hence the blood letting bite. Do you really think he was worrying about cleaning products in the room?

 

"""I got a stick and set him in another room and keep going in to check if he has calmed down ( about every 5 min) he is not calming down the second I walk in he puffs and clicks."""""

 

He should be put back in his cage not in another room, so he can calm down without you having to check him every 5 minutes. And he should remain there for quite a bit of time until whatever is going on has totally changed or stopped and he shouldn't be involved in anything that could involve chasing, retrieving, possible biting, interfering with any chore.

 

 

""""""""my question is, What is the proper way to respond to this, what should my reaction be. I tried to let him calm it just wasnt happening.He is still PISSED 30 mins later and I think my behavior was same as I usually handle him. I feel very confused on how to deal with this....."""""""

 

You're putting some type of timing on his different types of aggression and that doesn't exist. He may break skin and be fine 5 minutes later or just do a little nipping and be aggressive for the next hour.

 

Again, the cage is the place to be when he seriously bites you. You did something to provoke him into giving you a nasty bite.

 

"""""I personally can do anything with him, touch hmm anywhere, ANYTHING. He gets very mad though if I ask him not to do somthing and become obsessed. """""

 

""""ZZero is normally a very good boy""""

 

He may be a very good boy but that also sounds like a spoiled bird who's getting the upper hand in many areas and it needs to be stopped. There's more nipping and now he's breaking skin which will cause swelling ans sometimes, infection.

You're the one that says he nips and you're the one that says that things *quickly turns into a battle of will*

When you hear that clicking, a serious bite is gonna follow.

 

I'm saying all of the above things because of one major reason--------

 

Your bird is getting older and any parrot that gets older is learning how to act like a more mature parrot which includes serious biting, obstinence, challenging and doing things it's now sure it can do with perfection.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/24 05:34

[lovethatgrey]

I don't have any advice regarding the biting but I would like to say that I have never allowed any of my parrots to fly around my home willy nilly. It just doesn't happen and to tell you the truth.. I can't imagine them flying into the kitchen unless I was there and something spooked them enough to be there with me. I believe in consistency, structure and boundaries for all pets. This is just my two cents. I hope your situation with Zero improves for I am certain that neither of you are having a good time.

[she]

I agree that the cage is the place to put ZZero when he is throwing a tantrum.Charlie is very strong willed when it comes to what he wants to do ,I just have to be even more determined .He has given me some strong nips,not broken my skin when I have tried to remove him from an area I dont wish him to be.I then place him in his cage till the situation has passed.<br><br>Post edited by: she, at: 2009/08/29 07:27

[Jane08]

Our 2 have also tried this sort of thing on and we really have a no tolerance policy on it. If they start to get aggressive and bite hard at any time they are straight back in the cage.

 

Of course we have worked hard to avoid these episodes but all greys try it on at some stage. You really do need to nip it in the butt otherwise they learn that biting is effective and will continue with it. There is no point trying the battle of wills it is pointless and you will always be the loser and your bird will feel run down and this is not positive.

 

Kea knows it so well now that when my boyfriend says "Kea come here, up" she freezes and steps up for him straight away as she knows she has done something wrong and it is cage time.

[JillyBeanz]

I must support all said before too - Harvey is treated in our house like a child. If he is naughty he is told he is naughty. He doesn't fly around the house willy nilly either. He may think he can (such as flying upstairs when we are downstairs) but, as tedious as it may seem, one of us goes and instantly retrieves him.

 

I posted yesterday that Harvey was in a foul mood and he bit me every time I took him off something he wasn't allowed to be on. This only happened until he was placed back in his cage. They must learn how YOU want them to act - don't let them have the upper hand.

 

I believe what they learn now will go a long way for theirs (and mine) future, happy life.

[Moobu]

I understand Dave007 is a very respected figure here and I don't mean to overstep any boundaries as the new member. But I'd like to point out that Dave's advice to put him in his cage every time he bites you is potentially a bad suggestion as it could train Zero to bite you whenever he feels like going back to his cage. I think it needs to be clarified that a few minutes time with the bird left alone need to pass between the bite and being put back in the cage so you do not reinforce the idea that "biting master's hand means i can go back to my room".

 

Again, no disrespect to Dave. This is just something I have read multiple times as a thing not to do. (at least not instantaneously after the bite.)

[Jane08]

Actually putting them back in the cage is another form of training them that the behaviour is unacceptable and you have to do it right away so they know why they are going back in. If you leave it for a few minutes and then put them in they will not understand the link between the bite and going back in the cage.

 

If you use this mehtod correctly it has no effect on them going back in the cage at normal times or biting to go back in the cage.<br><br>Post edited by: Jane08, at: 2009/08/28 11:10

[Joolesgreyuk]

Some excellent replies on here regarding this problem. Beau is never allowed upstairs (as it would be if we had a dog) and there is no need for him to do so, downstairs is open-plan and a reasonably-sized area and has everything he could want or need to hand. Also by restricting the area means that Beau knows the layout well and flying mishaps are kept to a minimum also (important) there are less windows to worry about keeping closed or to fly into. I would imagine a bird allowed to fly all over the house can het himself into all sorts of dangerous situation whilst you are out of sight.

 

We also place Beau in his cage if he bites hard although not for little nips which aren't really agressive.

[danmcq]

Dave's advice is spot on as always.

 

Our Grey is 2yrs 3 mos old. He is now at the point, that when he gets excited and wants something, be it a toy, place or food he will bite. If he has something and I chase him and take it away. He will throw a fit, then fly at you while your walking away, land in the middle of your back and bite right in the center of your neck HARD PINCH, then fly off when you move your hands back to remove him.

 

The only way we can deal with this, is to cage him, as Dave stated. It must be done when the incident takes pace, not minutes later when there is no relation to the incident that resulted in caging.

 

I have opened the cage, offered the step up and got bitten instantly. At that instant, the cage door closes and I walk away and sit down at my PC or wherever I am going.

 

He will then start contact calling, which I ignore and around 10 minutes later, go back, open the door and ask for a step-up. If he lifts his foot, he steps up and gets out of the cage. If he doesn't, the door closes and the same scenario takes place again.

 

They do learn and understand actions that are unacceptable like biting, receive instant negative feedback and results of that action.

 

This is how they learn in the wild as well. The parents do not wait 10 minutes before taking action regarding bad behaviour. It is an instant response an the young chick learns quickly.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/08/28 16:49

[judygram]

Moobu wrote:

I understand Dave007 is a very respected figure here and I don't mean to overstep any boundaries as the new member. But I'd like to point out that Dave's advice to put him in his cage every time he bites you is potentially a bad suggestion as it could train Zero to bite you whenever he feels like going back to his cage. I think it needs to be clarified that a few minutes time with the bird left alone need to pass between the bite and being put back in the cage so you do not reinforce the idea that "biting master's hand means i can go back to my room".

 

Again, no disrespect to Dave. This is just something I have read multiple times as a thing not to do. (at least not instantaneously after the bite.)

 

 

Yes Dave is a well respected member here and with his many, many years of experience we do not dispute his words of wisdom, if any one person here on this forum knows then it is Dave.

 

Now my grey has never bitten me so I don't have this problem at least not yet but I would follow Dave's advice if and when I do encounter it.

 

While I am at it, why don't you introduce yourself in the welcome room and tell us some more about you and your grey.

[Dave007]

Moogo

 

If you took the time to read the original threader starter, you would see that very unusual bad things are occuring and little is being done to stop it although the person would like it to stop. Many people respond that they would immediately put their bird in a cage to stop this behavior. Anotherperson said that their bird wouldn't even be allowed in a area where things like destructive behavior may happen. Destructive behavior, attack behavior, unwarranted biting behavior, biting which isn't expected, lack of reaction on what to do when these things happen, putting a bird in an area and checking to see if the bird is in a better mood etc.

Your only reponse is that time should be given to the bird before putting him back in a cage. People put their birds back in their cages a million times a day for a multitude of reasons.

 

BUT--I'll offer a different sceniaro. What would you do if your bird was already in a cage and decided to seriously bite you and make you bleed? Would you wait a few minutes to let him out? Would you consider that disapline? If so, would you like that biting to be a constant thing just because the bird wants to come out?

[Moobu]

Looking back at my 3 am post I can see it didn't quite convey the message I was intending. I meant to help clarify Dave's message a little with a small tip that I have been taught and found helpful. Obviously putting the bird in the cage is the correct thing to do. I just meant to help the OP by mentioning to take a precaution not to teach the bird that biting is a way to go back to his cage when he feels like it.