Changes in his behavior.

[Eckobird]

It all started with the divebombing behavior about a month ago, some of you may remember I posted a thread about it, heres the link if you don't.

http://www.greyforums.net/component/option,com_joomlaboard/Itemid,27/func,view/catid,5/id,142790/

 

I am so hurt to say that Ecko has become aggresive towards ME now. I don't know what I did to him, actually I know I didn't do anything to him but love him and take care of him. I am the one who gets up at 7:00 in the morning when he wakes us up by biting on the cage bars, I let him out to go potty, I make him his cooked veggies and feed him, I clean his cage and change his water and food and yet this is what I get it return. I know he is a bird and they go through changes and stages but I am so hurt by this I don't know what to do.

 

Lately it seems like its just getting worse. Sometimes I go to pet him and he will bite me hard but not hard enough to draw blood, I let him finish biting me instead of pulling away and walk away. Sometimes he shows signs that he doesn't want me to bother him like puff up at me and thats when I just let him be. Other times he will get so mad and divebomb me. I simply walk away and ignore it all. He isn't like this to me all the time but it does happen a lot. Sometimes he can be so sweet to me and he will put his head down for scratches or just sit on my knee and listen to me talk to him.

 

But the way he is with my boyfriend its like he is a totally different bird. It's obvious he is his favorite person in the world and he loves Robert dearly. He has never bitten him hard and he gets so lovey dovey with him everytime Robert walks in the room and if he isn't in the room Ecko calls for him. He reguritates for him all the time and it makes me jealous that they have that kind of relationship.

 

Another thing in his behavior is that he is scared of other people and new things now. He HATES my sister(he use to love her), she can't even go near him without him flying away. But he LOVES my mom. He even reguritates FOR MY MOM when she doesn't even see Ecko all the time. He hates kids now and puffs up scared and lunges for them if they walk by his cage(we have to lock him up now when people come over.) And he hates new toys. I know greys change a lot so I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I don't want it to get so bad that I can't handle him anymore. What if he changes so much and acts like he does towards my sister to me? What if I can't handle him soon?

 

I need some advice please. I am heartbroken.

[danmcq]

I know how you feel caitlin.

 

Dayo was MY Grey. :-)

 

But, he took to my wife and it has remained that way from 6 weeks old. he did go through a spell from 6 months onward where he would bite me and draw blood if I didn't pay close attention to his body language.

 

He has never dive bombed me though. The Only thing you can do is keep loving him and doing as you are. Only time will resolve this as long as you remain the consistent person you are and just accept that he likes your BF as the #1 favored person.

[chimaysmommy]

Oh Caitlin I'm so sorry to hear about these changes in Ecko. I'm wondering if he's changing preferance in his favored human? He's not much younger than Chimay right? Our chimay is almost 7 months old now... I hope others who have gone through the behavioral changes with greys as they age can better comment on the subject, but my thinking is that there's not much else you can do but remain consistent with him as you always are. Maybe this is just a rebellious phase he's going through? As hard as it may be try not to take it personal. You're a GREAT mommy and I know this is not a result of anything you've done. How much one on one time do you and he have? I wonder if he's trying to express his independence and rebelling.

 

Hang in there!!

[Eckobird]

Thanks. I know I shouldn't take it personally and I am really trying not to but its hard. We do have one on one time in the mornings before I go to work and sometimes after work when my boyfriend is at work and on the weekends. But when he is there its hard to have one on one time with Ecko because he always flies to Robert, he always wants to be with him and not me.

 

Dan are you still able to handle Dayo? Ecko still steps up to me and I don't want him to stop doing that. Does Dayo step up to you?

[Joolesgreyuk]

Oh Caitlin I really feel for you and I know how it feels. Beau is 6 months old now and has also taken a liking to my husband. He will actually leave me and his head scratches to fly to hubby when he enters the room and if I go near him whilst he is with him he will lunge at me. When hubby isn't around I will do just fine but I'm afraid I am 2nd best. I'm the one who feeds, waters, cleans his cage out and lets Beau out but I'm still 2nd best and you are right it hurts especially so because Beau is supposed to be mine and hubby really isn't that into him. :-( I fear that Beau sees me as him mum whilst he sees hubby as his friend/partner. Hopefully this is a phase they will grow out of but at the end of the day we have to get used not being "the chosen one".

 

Ecko does seem to have taken things to extreme by divebombing you, however I think you have taken the right approach by ignoring this behaviour and carrying on as usual. Be patient and good luck. X

[JungleDreamz]

Oh Caitlin I am so sorry...Hopefully it is just a stage he is going through and he will grow out of it. I am sorry I dont have any help for you, I havnt gotten to this point yet with my ecko...Geeze I hope I dont! I would feel the same way you do, I would also take it very personal! I dont blame you at all. I wish I could help...All I can say is your great to him and hang in there...<br><br>Post edited by: JungleDreamz, at: 2009/07/23 19:15

[Tycos_mom]

Oh caitlan I'm so sorry to here this. I think that Adaya would be doing the same thing right now with my daughter but she is afraid of the bigger birds she's only fourteen and she likes the smaller birds like my GCC and my IRN but every time Adaya see her she flies to her and Adaya's first words are get her off of me. So Adaya doesn't have a choice to switch loyalty's I can only imagine how much it hurts to be shunned by the bird you love so much. Hopefully with consistency and love you can still have a meaningful relationship with Echo even if you turn out to be 2nd best.

[Dave007]

""""I know I shouldn't take it personally and I am really trying not to but its hard"""""

 

Well, you're wrong. You should take it personally. You're the one getting bitten. There's so many of the standard answers concerning a parrot biting a person. *don't pull away. Don't act like it hurts. Just say no to the bird when he does this* . That doesn't always work and if people followed that procedure there would be definite scars. You're bird keeps divebombing you and biting you? Ever remember what you do when a large fly lands on your neck or face or arm? You swat it away quickly. You don't waitfor the bug to bite. He's divebombing you? Simply swat him away quickly when he lands on you. Lands on you again? Swat him away over and over until he gets the idea.Pretty soon, he's gonna get the idea that flying at you is not comfortable. From your picture I can see that he's young and will try lots of things just to see if he can be successful and he's succeeding. He's in a stage where he's being rebelious and trying out different things simply because he can. He's discovering all the things that his wings are allowing him to do. This reminds me of the person who lets a bird on their shoulder and doesn't try to stop bad behavior such as biting a face, jewelry, clothing. If that bird doesn't stop with the verbal word it's time to stop that behavior permanently. Many people don't and the bird knows how to maneuver so he can't be caught. People who do that are masochists.

You've developed a routine as far as feeding, handling, putting him in certain places. Well, change that pattern. You put food in the cage when he's in the cage or put food in when he's out of the cage. Change that routine More than likely the routine you've got going is the exact same routine is the only one he's familiar with but he's getting older and now is the time to confuse him. He shouldn't be allowed to keep that routine as he's getting older. He's different than that bird you had 2/3 mts ago. Constantly do different things so that the routine changes. He's getting away with things because he knows exactly what's gonna happen step by step. You may feel bad doing these things but during a very young grey's time of growing up he has to experience things that are done differently so he doesn't have a plan of action. Basically, that's what becomes more important. Soon enough the important things you do will also be accepted by the bird as also being important. Usually, a bird gets very settled into a non aggressive pattern by the time he's between 3 to 5 yrs old. By that time he finds that other things are important. You take him to the potty and he tries to bite you? Swat him off and put him back. He does it again? Swat him off. Let him land on the floor. Soon enough that potty area will be more appealing than landing on the floor. Constant changes on your behavior don't allow a bird to set up a plan of certain behaviors.

He's friendly with other people when they come over? Well, they don't have their backs to him. What if he flew to them and started biting? Would you immediately get the bird away from those people or would you tell those people to put up with it, not react and not get annoyed or even frightened. You're the only one that has that routine going. They don't. Change the way you do things. In your mind, RIGHT NOW, you have to act like a person who doesn't trust him which will make you more alert to the things he intends to do. He'll start to quiet down and ease up on what he's doing when he reailizes he can't do it anymore.

Another example of routine---A person has a bird for a few years and decides to get another one. Of course that first bird expects to be treated as the top bird which in most cases should be but as the new bird is living there, the first bird needs to understand that there's another family member there. So now comes the time to feed the new bird first, cover the cage first, let the new bird out of the cage first. Then the process changes and those same things are done with no particular routine. The first bird finally accepts the fact that it doesn't matter who gets what first as long as they get it. Then the person adds another bird and the process has to start all over again.

Basically, change your routine with him. You're letting him develop a routine and the only thing changing is your increased fear of him and he could care less.

Also understand that other things are gonna happen in the future that will become a routine for him and eventually will have to stop. A person loves to have to have their bird fly over and eat food from the dinner plate. Well, eventually that stuff has to stop. A person loves to kiss the bird's beak or share food mouth to mouth? Well, that person is in for a big surprise when the lips become more attractive than the food.

Change your routines with him. Confuse him and you'll efentually be happy that you did.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/07/23 19:54

[Eckobird]

Thanks for the support Jooles, Hannah and Pat. It is hard but I will always loves him and care for him.

 

Jooles, I am sorry you are going through this too. I really hope this is just a phase they go through. Is your husband home with him more than you are? I think one of the reasons this has happened is because Robert gets to be home with him all day long. He works nights and weekends and I work weekdays 9-5:30 so I don't get as much one on one time with Ecko as he does.

[JungleDreamz]

Good Advice Dave! Now I know what to do too if and when this happens to me and my Ecko! Do you think I or anyone else with a young Grey should start changing routines before something like this happens? And if yes, What are some ways of doing this?

[Eckobird]

Thanks Dave! That is great advice! So how exactly would I change his routine? I usually make him his veggies and place it on top of the refridgerator because thats where he likes to be. Should I move it somewhere else? Would this be changing his routine? I am up with him from 7-9am before I go to work and then my boyfriend is with him until he goes to work at 2, sometimes all day when he has off. So I really don't know how much I could change the routine. Should I take him outside in the mornings? Would that make a difference? I'm kind of confused lol sorry.

[Joolesgreyuk]

Caitlin, I don't think it has anything to do with how much time you spend with your bird, certainly in my case I spend much more time with Beau than my husband. 9 times our of 10 when Beau flies to him he tries to put him back on his stand but Beau is persistant. I just sit there observing...and feeling pretty much like you do lol!

[danmcq]

caitb2007 wrote:

Dan are you still able to handle Dayo? Ecko still steps up to me and I don't want him to stop doing that. Does Dayo step up to you?

 

Yes, Dayo will step-up and interact with me on a very personal level when my wife is not home or is not in the same room.

 

Once she is in direct presence, Dayo has nothing on his mind except Mommy!!

 

He will bite me much harder than her. He gives her more of just a strong warning pressure bite when he doesn't want to comply. Me, he'll bite the crap out of. But, if it's non negotiable, I persist until he steps up.

 

He is now 2yrs 3mts old and has mellowed for the most part.

 

When he was 6 mo to 1.5 yrs, he was definitely testing his boundaries and most the time it was on me. He would still normally comply with his love muffin mommy.

[Dave007]

It really doesn't matter when you start changing routines. When a person is the one that's starting to get unhappy with what their bird is doing then the time has come to not allow that bird to continue. If a person wants to change routines even when nothing bad is happening that's fine too. A bird doesn't sit back and study the reasons for the changes going on. The important thing is not to let a bird put you on the defensive.

Another subject talked about is shoulders. I always say that IN MOST CASES that shouldn't be allowed if the bird is gonna mess around with everything it finds attractive. You think a bird wants to aggravate you when he breaks the clasp on your shiny necklace or ear rings or those soft earlobes> Birds aren't vindictive. Their mouth is theior arm and hand that's the only tool they have to use. I have a TAG that loves to come to my shoulder.If I'm walking around his only desire is to watch everything I do and imitate the sounds that he hears. If I'm at the PC, the only reason he wants to fly to my shoulder is to go to sleep. Nothing more than going to sleep. He's not interested in anything else buit sleep and imitaing noises. I could walk around all day and I'll actually forget he's there until I make some noise and he imitates it. It's a good thing he doesn't snore on my shoulder so he'd be a pain in the ass.

[Dave007]

caitb2007

In your situation, the routines you have to change have to do with letting him not divebomb you. You wanna change where you put the food? Fine. He only wants the food and if he avoids it that's only gonna be temporary because if it's food he likes, believe me he'll eventually find it.

I don't know what you mean by *outside* but if that's one of the times he acts badly, don't do it so often. make him desire the thrill of going out. You're up from 7 to 9. In that time dont do the same things you always do. Change it around. Changes in routines can be small but to a bird they're big and it takes his attention away from what he normally does. Improvise. Tell your boyfriend to improvise. Believe it or not this is one of the standard rules concerning the bird socializing with all family members. Small changs, large changes. The important word here is changes.

[danmcq]

GreYt answer Dave.

 

Now, where did I put my swatter...there's gonna be a lot going on here shortly ;-)

 

<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/07/23 20:52

[Eckobird]

Thanks again Dave! Changes is what I will be doing then! I should of mentioned that he has divebombed me 3 times and the first time was because he found my phone and I took it away from him and he got really mad at me for that. And the other times were because he was with Robert and I walked over to pet him, I guess he didn't want me to bother their quality time. He mostly divebombs the people who walk into our house and he ALWAYS divebombs my sister. I will have her start swatting him and I will too when he does it to me. But I think I have learned what makes him divebomb me and I have been avoiding it so I haven't been divebombed in a while. Its just the biting and puffing up I am worried about. Thanks again Dave, lots of karma for you.

 

Thank you all so much for your help!

[Char]

Ah Caitlin. Sorry for what you are going through. Dave has some greyt advice as usual. I am only going to add one thing regarding the biting.

 

You may remember the Cockatoo I rescued and rehomed. She bit me VERY badly the second day she was here. Have you ever had a Cockatoo bite? It was a deep puncture wound that could easily have damaged a tendon on my finger if it had been in the right spot. Now I had read how that you are supposed to take the bite and not react but I was not about to let the bird maim me for life.

 

She was very sweet unless you tried to remove her from someplace she did not want to leave. Such as when she was climbing up the lamp or on top of her cage and did not want to come off. When I would tell her to step up at these times she would try to bite me. So I started using a towel to remove her but she really kind of liked the towel so this did not teach her any lesson.

 

I read somewhere about this technique. When she was somewhere she should not be and I would ask her to step up and she tried to bite me I immediately reached and got her around the neck the way the vet hold and then took her feet and held her that way for a few second and said " no bite". I would then take her to her cage for a time out. I only had to hold her that way twice. The next time I she was doing it I said step up and she stepped right up. No attempt to bite. Same thing for the top of the cage.

 

She learned that what I was asking her to do, get off the lamp or come off the cage top was going to happen anyway and she might as well do it the easy way. She was a smart bird.

 

This hold is the same one the vet uses and does not hurt the bird. I read all the time about "taking the bite" but I am sorry I am not going to let a bird maime me which I believe she was capable of doing.

 

Just thought I would share this experience with you since I don't believe "taking the bite" is always the right thing to do.

 

Also maybe you could ask your hubby to back off some with the bird as it was supposed to be your pet. If he is getting less lovin from your hubby he might change his preference. Greys are know to be one person birds. Remind hubby this was supposed to be your bird.

 

Post edited by: Char, at: 2009/07/24 00:473332<br><br>Post edited by: Char, at: 2009/07/24 01:22

[Eckobird]

Thanks for the advice Char. I would be scared grabbing him by the neck, I don't want to hurt him by accident. He was actually suppose to be for the both of us so it looks like he chose Robert as his favorite. I don't mind being second favorite as long as he doesn't turn on me. I know how they can be one person birds, my moms grey is and he won't let anyone else touch him. I just don't want Ecko to be like that towards me. I've taken all of this great advice into consideration so hopefully it doesn't get to that point, I will keep you guys updated.

 

Thanks again.

[Char]

Caitlin, a Cockatoo is a slower moving bird than a grey so it may not be something you could do. Even though the vet assistant does it to Whisper. I was just making the point that you can't always take the bite and sometimes you have to try other things.

 

When I got Whisper I was somewhat worried that she would choose my husband over me because he went to work early and got home in the early afternoon so would be able to spend more time with her. We separated and he is no longer here so no worry about that anymore.:laugh:

 

I guess I misunderstood I thought you had said he was to be your bird. Good luck. I will be thinking about you. I know you will work things out.

 

Just to clarify. You don't actually grab the neck. You make a circle with your forefinger and thumb. Very loose. It prevents them from reaching down with their beak to bite. No squeezing was taking place. Just wanted you to know. I have watched the vet do it many times as she does not use towel. One of the things I like about her.<br><br>Post edited by: Char, at: 2009/07/24 03:16

[lovethatgrey]

I am really sorry:( . I can sense your sadness. His behaviour seems so drastic and unpredictable for such a young parrot.

 

I don't have those kinds of issues with Emma. She is quite stable and when I do get bitten it is usually due to not paying enough attention in advance to her body language. Nonetheless, it still hurts a bunch and I get mad at her, snap at her and walk away. It is usually very effective because Emma doesn't like being ignored by me.

 

I'm trying to imagine what I would do if I were you. First of all I would make a decision to no longer accept Ecko's painful biting and then I would make sure to follow that decision with an action plan.

 

I think you need to take a few steps back and start to behave as if you are meeting Ecko for the first time and getting to know him all over again. The past is the past, so leave it where it belongs. Today is the present and frankly he sounds like a little terror and a spoiled brat.

 

It is my opinion that our parrots are masters at reading our behaviours. In my case, I know that Emma knows that I am very trustworthy and that I love her very much. She definitely owns a big piece of my heart. For the most part I am quite a softie towards her but occasionally when she is "defiant" I have to switch gears and I will tell you right now that she KNOWS when I mean business and I have no time for crud from her.

 

She can sense it in my energy or vibe towards her and my tone of voice. It is a tone that is stern and fully expects compliance and cooperation and she knows it. She has complied each and every time. Once she obeys, I praise her immediately and give myself a mental pat on the back.:blush:

 

This is not something you can "fake". I understand that you may be scared because of the pain that he has inflicted on you already so it might take a few practice tries on your part. You have to believe that enough is enough and Ecko is done screwing around with you. I think Ecko also has to sense that you are stronger and non tolerant of his crap also.

 

All of this is just my opinion, I am simply a first time african grey owner too so I am learning along the way also.

 

I think I would also consider hiring a credible parrot behaviourist to help me. They could come to my home and observe my parrot and I and point out things that need modifying and provide practical advice. I know some also offer phone consultations also.

 

Be strong {{{Caitlin}}}}.<br><br>Post edited by: lovethatgrey, at: 2009/07/24 04:14

[Luvparrots]

So sorry Caitlin that Ecko is being a "brat." Ana Grey will pull what I call "Diva" on me once in a while and I just move on. If she will not step down when I am in a hurry I just climb up on my step stool and get her down from the top of her net and give her a good talking to. I believe she understand even if it is just the tone of my voice that is letting her know I am now pissed off. She usually then straightens up. If I am not in a hurry I just leave the room and not come back for her until she has to call me and when I go back she will then comply and be good as gold. My Ana Grey is spoiled and like all spoiled children some times they need to be put back in line. The important thing is to not let it get you down. Ecko's loyalties may change tomorrow and you want to be available for her to come to for reassurance.

[Eckobird]

Thank you so much for your help lovethatgrey and Janet. I really appreciate all this great advice. I think you have a great point lovethatgrey, about showing him who is stronger and non tolerant of his crap. I usually just give in and let him bite me and walk away without saying anything. Its obviously not working so I am going to try a different approach and show him who is boss. I love him dearly and I willing to work with him as long as he needs to be worked with.

 

Yesterday when I got home from work I changed everything around. I switched his cage around, added new things and took some things out. I moved all his swings around and put them in different rooms just for a little change. Also this morning I changed his routine up a little, its just a start and I know its going to take some time.

 

This is the reason why this forum is so wonderful!! Everyone is always willing to help. Thank you ALL sooo much.

[casper]

Caitlin, everyone has given great advice, I really hope things work out for you.

 

You know everyone is here for you even if its just to vent a bit or tell us about progress made with Ecko.

 

Big hugs to you:kiss:

[danmcq]

caitb2007 wrote:

I usually just give in and let him bite me and walk away without saying anything. Its obviously not working so I am going to try a different approach and show him who is boss.

 

Right on Caitlin.

 

As Dave, Char and many others have so rightly said, no reaction of a hard bite is NOT going to get the message across that it is not proper social behaviour.

 

In the wild they learn very quickly as chicks that the beak can inflict pain and if they use it do do so, they receive a NEGATIVE reaction by the other bird letting it know that is not socially acceptable.

 

I could never believe when reading those "Don't React" statements in books or thread on the Internet that promulgate it!!

 

If they receive no corrective reaction, they think it's perfectly fine. Only a moron would sit and let a bird bite hard and keep clamping down until the tendons, blood veins or whatever else is going to get seriously damaged. Would they let a Dog bite them and not react? I think NOT! Does anyone let their child bite with no reaction, I think NOT! Enough said on that.

 

The others have all given Greyt advice and comments on things to try. Every Grey is different and thus will accordingly respond to different techniques. As you work through these you've been given, you'll find the ones that work best with your Grey.

 

One thing to keep in mind, Ecko knows proper etiquette as evidenced by how he interacts with your husband. You are on a different level of personal relationship with him, just as I am with dayo. Always know this and approach and request things according to that level. Yes, I force Dayo to do things he doesn't want to do for me, but if I see he's gonna bite, I make a fist in go in with skin drawn tight on the back of the hand and he has learned that resistance is futile because the hand keeps on coming and he has no choice other than to step up or fly away. He is not getting me to back down or walk away in pain.

 

For the most part after MUCH TIME, he has really gotten to where he just goes ahead and steps up now, but no lovey dovey stuff, just get the trip over. <br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/07/24 16:26