please help, trying to decide on right species

[KinNJ]

Hello. Great forum. Sorry the following is so long, but I want to make sure our situation is clear so we can get the best possible advice.

 

My wife and I are also considering getting a parrot. After tons of research (websites, forums, books, and a store visit), we have narrowed down the consideration set to two very different birds, either an African Grey or a Greenwing Macaw.

 

In the Grey, we like the intelligence, more manageable size, great speaking ability, and relative quietness. I'm also a structured, analytical person, and find the Grey more "gut" appealing. The biggest concern is that it would end up very antisocial to visitors or even to one of us, no matter how disciplined and consistent the training and socialization. We really do not want a terror who gets territorial aggression or fear aggression when family and friends come to visit, or who decides he/she wants me or my wife to "drop dead."

 

In the Greenwing, we like the striking appearance and gentle disposition, macaw playfulness, and that it is less prone to screech attacks than other macaws. The drawbacks are comparative speaking ability and large size.

 

We are married, in our late 20's. No kids, but that could change in a year or 2. One cat, with claws, but is very calm and social (breed is exotic shorthair, which has gentle, doglike personality). House is condo end-unit, with decent but not perfect sound isolation from neighbors (we do hear loud yelling, but not TV or music)...also cage would be 1 room away from separator wall. Cannot make external changes, so so an outdoor aviary is impossible. My wife is currently at home most of the day, but that is subject to change. I'm gone daily from around 7-ish to around 6:30 or 7. No priceless heirlooms, but do have a few pieces of custom artwork on the walls. Might be moving in the next 12 to 24 months. Twice a month, maids come and make a lot of noise (we would prohibit use of dangerous chemicals). Occasionally I'm gone at night for work-related travel. Once a year, there might be out-of-country travel where the parrot can't come along. Cost is not a primary concern.

 

From our research, we know the issues and sacrifices, but find disagreement over whether major problems (biting, pooping everywhere, being territorial, bonding to one person to the exclusion of all others, etc) can be addressed through proper socialization, training, and care. So we need the benefit of your experience! Also advice to guide us on picking the best species to match to us, and matching ourselves best to the species we end up picking.

 

So, onto the questions:

 

(1) Is a Grey appropriate to our circumstances?

 

(2) My wife has fairly bad seasonal allergies but no problems with mammals (except me occasionally )... What's the best way to find out if she is allergic to a Grey's feather dust?

 

(3) Is there a *large* risk that, no matter how we train and socialize the bird, it will end up bonding to one of us to the *total* exclusion of the other?

 

(4) If the best we can hope for is tight bonding to one person and mere civility with the other, is there a way to control or guide who gets the bond (i.e. stick to one gender, have one person take the lead in training, etc)?

 

(5) Are we going to run into big bird-related problems when our first (human) baby comes?

 

(6) Are Greys more at risk than other parrots of psychological stress and trauma from being housed with a vet or other professional sitter during vacations abroad? (For domestic trips, we can drive instead of flying)

 

(7) For the cage, is the best approach to get a small 20x20 baby cage for the first year, then a larger 36x24 (or bigger) adult cage and make the baby cage a sleeping/travel cage?

 

(8) Do you think that, based on everything, a Macaw is more appropriate for us than a Grey, or vice-versa?

 

(9) Other than size, occasional bouts of loud noise, and lesser speaking ability, is there something I'm missing that argues against a Greenwing and favors a Grey for people like us?

 

(10) Is it true that Greys tend to "switch allegiance" from one person (parent-bond) to a different person (mate-bond) around sexual maturity?

 

(11) Is there a reason to favor male over female, or female over male (and is it even safe and quick enough to get a baby DNA'd in time)?

 

(12) In babies, what are the most important things to look for?

 

Sorry again for the long post and many question... Thanks so much for any advice!

[Tari]

1) Is a Grey appropriate to our circumstances? http://members.aol.com/rhondastoys/page4.html cut and paste that should help you decide that part.

 

 

(2) My wife has fairly bad seasonal allergies but no problems with mammals (except me occasionally )... What's the best way to find out if she is allergic to a Grey's feather dust? you can bet she well be allergic so you might want to consider an eclectus they have no feather dust. I am allergic to mine I mist my birds daily. I have no carpet in my bird area. I was the currants a lot. If you have carpet you well need to vacume a lot. Need to anyway for messy food. I mist the paper down in the cage before I change and I have an air filter that helps a lot.

 

 

 

(3) Is there a *large* risk that, no matter how we train and socialize the bird, it will end up bonding to one of us to the *total* exclusion of the other? Yes this is possible with any bird you get.

 

 

(4) If the best we can hope for is tight bonding to one person and mere civility with the other, is there a way to control or guide who gets the bond (i.e. stick to one gender, have one person take the lead in training, etc)? Not really. In most cases the bird well bond with whoever it spends the most time with but sometimes a bird well choice a human that it only sees one time.

 

 

(5) Are we going to run into big bird-related problems when our first (human) baby comes? You could. But this could happen with a small bird out there and if your dedicated to your bird you well work it out.

 

 

(6) Are Greys more at risk than other parrots of psychological stress and trauma from being housed with a vet or other professional sitter during vacations abroad? (For domestic trips, we can drive instead of flying) They can be but once again there are ways to condition your bird when young if you are wiling to do what is need. IE an over nighter at the sitters even when your not on vacation to keep him use to the situation.

 

 

(7) For the cage, is the best approach to get a small 20x20 baby cage for the first year, then a larger 36x24 (or bigger) adult cage and make the baby cage a sleeping/travel cage? The bigger the better.

 

 

(8) Do you think that, based on everything, a Macaw is more appropriate for us than a Grey, or vice-versa?

 

(9) Other than size, occasional bouts of loud noise, and lesser speaking ability, is there something I'm missing that argues against a Greenwing and favors a Grey for people like us? Loud noise is more a daily thing not an occasional thing. With any bird and yes Greenwings are very very loud. But a grey can be to some people too.

 

 

(10) Is it true that Greys tend to "switch allegiance" from one person (parent-bond) to a different person (mate-bond) around sexual maturity? Any bird can do that.

 

 

(11) Is there a reason to favor male over female, or female over male (and is it even safe and quick enough to get a baby DNA'd in time)? Not that I know of.

 

 

 

(12) In babies, what are the most important things to look for?

A bird that is healthy and likes you.<br><br>Post edited by: Tari, at: 2007/07/06 23:56

[judygram]

That is a lot of questions, but Tari has given you a lot of good answers too, it sounds like you have given this a lot of thought and personally I would go with the grey, smaller bird and such. Of course I am biased when it comes to the grey, my favorite, but people with less desirable circumstances have given a good home to a grey. I think you would be happy with either the grey or the macaw but only you can make that decision. Keep us informed as to what you are going to do.

 

Welcome to our family, we are here to help in any way we can, all you have to do is ask.

[CeasarsDad]

Tari.. the text color you chose is hard to read.. Can you make it a lighter shade of purple? Or perhaps Blue?

 

Thanks in advance..

[Tari]

Did that already. Funny it was easy for me to read but this red is not. But thats ok as long as you all can read it.

[judygram]

Celery, we may all want to go out and get us a vasa parrot, you make them sound so wonderful to have. You have also given some sound advice here too, we all can use your suggestions for the improvement of our relationship with our birds. Thanks for sharing with us.

[judygram]

That would definitely have been a Kodak moment.

Just keep us updated on how well things are going with Vinnie and we will see if we still would want to get one.

[KinNJ]

Tari and everyone, thanks so much for the super helpful answers. I'm still favoring the grey, but the more research my wife does the more intimidated she gets, and I wouldn't want to start out from a position of tension/fear, just not healthy...so maybe Celery is right, we should expand the consideration set to some of the other species like the vasa.

 

I'll be sure to keep everyone posted about what we decide, and thanks again for the answers!

[judygram]

That would be a good decision too, KinNJ, and celery knows all about the vasa since he has one, and it is making some of us want one too, LOL. But don't let all that information intimidate you too much, take it with a grain of salt, my mama used to say.B)

[danmcq]

HI Celery,

 

Wow!!! What an interesting Parrot Vassa's are.

 

The photos in the links are great, and as you stated, they must be very rare in captivity and perhaps Zoo's. I had never seen or heard of one before.

 

 

Please keep us informed of his progress and Photo's as you get the chance.:laugh:

 

They are one beautiful Parrot!

[judygram]

You are right Dan, we might all have to go out and get us one, very sweet bird. :) :)

[Tari]

Hey how about a quaker? are they legal in your state? They can learn just as many words and in a couple years you'll be armed with enough experence to get yourself a grey and then you quaker can teach it words. lol

A Vasa is a nice bird but kind of hard to find. I have yet to see one in person.

[KinNJ]

Update! Deposit has been paid, and 2 weeks to go until weaning is complete. And as it turns out, the humans didn't pick the bird, the bird picked the humans. :laugh: Wasn't a Grey or a Greenwing, but a Panama Amazon. We went to an exotic bird store, one with lots of babies about to be weaned, so we could ask questions and check out availability. After washing up, we were allowed to handle some of the older babies. One was very shaky, one flew away (twice!), and during it all my wife noticed another one that kept watching us the whole time. She asked to see him/her, and that was the end of us!

 

He/she ruffled his/her head feathers when we scratched, stood on one foot, displayed wing feathers to us (thought this was a territorial sign, but it was accompanied by snuggling and playing, not biting or aggression), did lots of pinning, kept up a steady stream of cute little baby chirps, and even hung upside-down from a toy I showed him/her! The kicker was when I went to pay for a book on amazons, and the little fella grabbed my credit card, then jumped down on the keypad of the card swipe machine!

 

So, now it's time to start buying stuff. Tomorrow we'll go back with our camera to take pictures, then make the 2-hour trip south to check out a huge 15,000 sq ft bird store we've heard about in Burlington to pick out a cage and some toys. We're both very excited, and a little shell-shocked!

 

Sadly, it looks like maybe this isn't going to be the right forum for us after all , but again thank you so much for the help! Anybody know a good forum for Amazons?

[judygram]

Well congrats on your new purchase, sad that you did not pick a grey but sometimes it is the right thing to do to let the bird pick you and the amazon picked you. Don't know of any amazon forums but if you google it I am sure if there are any it will show them. Good luck to you and your new bird and if in the future you do go and get a grey be sure to come back and join us again.

[Guest briansmum]

yes it is great the bird picked you. again i dont know any amazon forums, but we do have an "other birds" thread, so dont be a stranger, show us some pics and keep us updated. we dove love pictures

[danmcq]

Hi Celery,

 

That Amazon not only Picked you, but helped you in paying for himself to ensure you did not get away with out him :-)

 

Yes, please post Photo's!!! Also, you can still stay here and post progress and new photos on this Forum in the all others Birds topic.

 

We don't want to lose someone we have made friends with already :-(

[KinNJ]

sure, I'd be happy to come back and post to the "Other birds" forum

 

and, due to popular demand, here's a pic (that is, if I do this right):

 

they said he'll be ready to go home in probably a week and a half, we can't wait, and already have a bunch of toys, day cage, sleeper/travel cage with cover, food, full spectrum light, and cage liners waiting, and a bottlebrush play gym on order!

[KinNJ]

ok, pic was too big, trying again:

[judygram]

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww it is so cute, and if it picked you then you will be happy you got it. I am happy for you and bringing it home soon, good luck to you and your new friend.

[Guest Monique]

Hello!!! I typed ALL this out below to your original question before I saw you already made a decision. Congratulations on your new baby!! I'll leave the below since I already typed it in case it helps someone else .

 

--------------------------

 

Hello! We have a Greenwing Macaw and a Grey and have 10+ years experience with both species.

 

(1) Is a Grey appropriate to our circumstances?

Yes. A Greenwing may yell too loud for your neighbors!!! You can hear ours outside of the house with no doors or windows open!!!

 

(2) My wife has fairly bad seasonal allergies but no problems with mammals (except me occasionally )... What's the best way to find out if she is allergic to a Grey's feather dust?

Check with your doctor??

 

(3) Is there a *large* risk that, no matter how we train and socialize the bird, it will end up bonding to one of us to the *total* exclusion of the other?

Yes and No. Yes, it is likely it will bond to one of you. CAGs are more likely to bond like this than TAGs. No, it is not likely to bond to the TOTAL exclusion of the other. Our first Grey (R.I.P.) was a gift from my husband to me and she grew up to HATE me (my words). She would say "come here sweetie" and if I was dumb enough to do it she would chomp into me!! BUT she still seemed to really enjoy verbal interaction with me, etc. and I still loved her and really enjoyed her even though her true love was my husband. They are so fun to watch, listen to, teach things to say, etc. even if they don't enjoy physically interacting with you!!

 

(4) If the best we can hope for is tight bonding to one person and mere civility with the other, is there a way to control or guide who gets the bond (i.e. stick to one gender, have one person take the lead in training, etc)?

No idea. You will get loads of opinions on this from many but I don't know that anyone knows the real answer. The only way I would know to "guarantee" it is to have only one person in charge of handling the bird, but that is not really good for the bird.

 

(5) Are we going to run into big bird-related problems when our first (human) baby comes?

No. But you might. Our first grey started plucking when our youngest (now 10-year-old) daughter was born. I do not think it was a coincidence and we were never able to get her to start plucking. Most likely with her personality she would have started plucking due to some other life change (if I am right about the initial cause).

 

(6) Are Greys more at risk than other parrots of psychological stress and trauma from being housed with a vet or other professional sitter during vacations abroad? (For domestic trips, we can drive instead of flying)

No. But if you travel A LOT then I would rethink a parrot as they need a good routine.

 

(7) For the cage, is the best approach to get a small 20x20 baby cage for the first year, then a larger 36x24 (or bigger) adult cage and make the baby cage a sleeping/travel cage?

It's best to get a big cage right away. They need the space for emotional health and physical exercise. I also like having a sleeping cage but it is not a necessity. Also, a sleeping cage can be a $20 dog crate from Walmart with a perch screwed in the side!!

 

(8) Do you think that, based on everything, a Macaw is more appropriate for us than a Grey, or vice-versa?

A Grey is more appropriate due to the noise factor. Also, one thing to keep in mind is the size of the Macaw (which I know you noted in your initial e-mail). I love my Macaw DEARLY I would not trade him for THE WORLD but with his cage size he actually has his own bedroom! And that is pretty much all that is in there is his cage and a computer!!! Also, the way you describe your likes and dislikes I think you are very suited to a Grey.

 

(9) Other than size, occasional bouts of loud noise, and lesser speaking ability, is there something I'm missing that argues against a Greenwing and favors a Grey for people like us?

Both birds can be a challenging first bird. Make sure you know what you are getting yourself into and buy or borrow at least one recent and well known parrot book. Macaws can be challenging because they can be very intimidating. They can also seriously injure you - I am sure they could break a bone if they wanted. Our Macaw has only bitten hard enough to leave a bruise once - and we are the exception not the rule!! Greys because of their sensitivity can be harder for a first-time owner. An educated adult who makes a well-thought out decision and has commitment will be fine with either one.

 

(10) Is it true that Greys tend to "switch allegiance" from one person (parent-bond) to a different person (mate-bond) around sexual maturity?

Yes, it can be and it is far more pronounced in the CAG vs. TAG.

 

(11) Is there a reason to favor male over female, or female over male (and is it even safe and quick enough to get a baby DNA'd in time)?

No reason to favor one over the other and it is perfectly safe to DNA ahead of time just takes some blood from a toenail snip.

 

(12) In babies, what are the most important things to look for?

A good breeder is more important than anything. Look for a breeder that allows their birds to fledge before clipping wings, a breeder that weans onto a healthy pellet and fresh food mix, that will listen to your likes or dislikes for specific personality traits and help match you up, that you are comfortable with asking questions to and the answers you get. If you get a good breeder you trust the rest will fall into place. If you live somewhere close enough then you will be able to visit.

[judygram]

Wow Monique, that is a lot of good information, you certainly did your homework and it will help others make that decision if faced with a choice of grey or macaw. Keep up the good work.