hveusnthbrige Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 Yes dblhelix, perhaps it was wrong for me to assume that point had been taken already. Hence why the topic is named with the "!?". Although Lidia, I do sincerely believe that the analogies used to compare and better understand the Greys using human children works. No it isn't perfect of course, but it is close. It's the age old line, "The intelligence of a Grey compares to that of a 4 year old.", an Amazon or a Macaw a 2 year old. In fact Lidia, I'm quite interested to hear how you 'discipline' your Grey. Your Grey must push you to the edge and cause a bad reaction on your part at least sometimes! I'm willing to bet with your opinions you've discovered a method that is both invasive aswell as effective. Please share and we can discuss:) And thankyou for stating that your posts are not ad homen. Methods and practices *are* meant to be tried afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lidia Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 hveusnthbrige wrote: I'm quite interested to hear how you 'discipline' your Grey. Your Grey must push you to the edge and cause a bad reaction on your part at least sometimes! I'm willing to bet with your opinions you've discovered a method that is both invasive aswell as effective. Please share and we can discuss:)And thankyou for stating that your posts are not ad homen. Methods and practices *are* meant to be tried afterall. I do not conduct ad hominem attacks and you are trying my patience with your passive-aggressive responses. This will be my last reply to you on this subject unless I can see that you have stopped playing games. I do not discipline my grey. He does not need to be disciplined. He is a parrot. Not a human. Not a dog. I deal with his bad behaviour by putting him back on or in his cage (usually on). He is never isolated. Isolation is a particularly cruel treatment for a flock bird. In nature, these birds would never be isolated. Isolation means death to these birds and their instincts are very close to the surface. When you isolate them, they are in fear of what will happen to them next. These are wild birds that we choose to keep as companions. They are not domesticated. If you do not understand this, then I feel very sorry for the birds you do keep as their lives will be filled with arbitrary cruelties that they do not and cannot understand. As to my grey, a well-adjusted 18-year old whom I've had since he was four months old, he is in a routine which suits both of us very well and this routine was achieved without using any cruelty. To achieve his cooperation, I use a stern voice (not my normal voice) to indicate to him when he should stop doing something. This works. There is no punishment involved. He is never subject to isolation, his contact calls are always responded to. When you have finished playing with semantics, perhaps you might be good enough to engage in debate on an adult and mature level. I am not convinced you understand the terminology you are using, much less its consequences for the animals in your charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hveusnthbrige Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 So Lidia, you use the military command to provide instruction to your bird. I agree this works perfectly as it makes the bird feel like #2 in the flock and you become the boss. It's just like my Macaw story. Yet it makes me stop and think about those "nasty" birds that feel they have the authority in most any situation. What do you do about them? Stewie the Macaw was not a nasty bird, he was just nasty to people who failed the lunge test. When I got my 1st tiel from the pet shop he was quite awful and belligerent. A stern voice caused him to assume attack position at the person issuing it with hissing and nipping the air. After taking him to the breeder where I got my Grey they suggested the laddering method which as I said before taught him in 2-3 episodes that being nasty results in exercise. He no longer hisses and he only does the attack position when defending his cage which is acceptable. He hasnt gotten the laddering for about 2 months now yet I still use the military voice to which he now somewhat responds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lidia Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Lidia wrote: This will be my last reply to you on this subject unless I can see that you have stopped playing games. See foregoing.<br><br>Post edited by: Lidia, at: 2007/07/11 17:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hveusnthbrige Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Okay so moving on then.. >.> If the flames havnt scared everyone off from reading along.. So the next thing to look at I guess would be ignoring. Clearly its the best method to train with. But its very hard to ignore a beak clamping down on your finger. Even 1 millionth of a % of body language that suggests its working for the bird will tell it what it needs to know. "Biting wins!" Or that 140db scream is really hard not to flinch at. Similar to ignoring is distracting. In my opinion shaking a can of coins when the bird is screaming is useless. It comes back to telling the bird what you want and it understanding you. Before grabbing the can of coins one must ponder, what does the can of coins mean to you anyway? It's a can of change from buying coffee and donuts and now its being shaken... no birdie connection here! I'm mostly out of tricks here.. though I'm going to pull down some text books and refresh myself on more methods and I'll post them if I havn't mentioned them already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 hveusnthbrige wrote: Okay so moving on then.. >.> If the flames havnt scared everyone off from reading along.. Hi Geoff - I haven't even noticed a puff of smoke so far. :-) I do see both of your methods of discipline, correction, behavior modifications of whatever each person calls it. It's all resulting in behaviour modification as the desired outcome (hopefully). I personally just see an interesting debate going on here so far. It is valuable information I can apply and watch as my baby Dayo responds to different methods of correcting him. I appreciate both of your and Lidia's view and comments.:laugh:<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2007/07/11 21:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hveusnthbrige Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Well, Dayo likely won't need any of it for several months. Babies don't do anything wrong. But the key to preventing it is fully understanding the topic. I've always thought that when we know something completely, we usually don't have to use it. It's funny how it works out that way. Makes it seem useless. You know Dan you can participate aswell in the chat! Throw some thoughts out, or ask your breeder about these points in the topic to help you figure out an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Hi Geoff, Well if babies don't anything wrong, that gentle kiss he gave me on the soft webbing between the thumb and index finger sure did hurt :-) I understand they don't know that they are doing anything wrong, but that's why we need to gently shake our hand side to side or push back gently to let them know something isn't right. But, I do realize that is entirely different than a 2 year old that Bites you because he knows it hurts and does it anyway :-( As I learn little tidbits, I will pass them on, but right now, I still crawling while the rest of you are running. You know I will throw thoughts out!!! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lidia Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 danmcq wrote: Well if babies don't anything wrong, that gentle kiss he gave me on the soft webbing between the thumb and index finger sure did hurt :-) When I lived in London years ago, Joshua used to go to a vet called Willie Wildgoose (I kid you not) and he once bit him in that very place between thumb and index finger. Willie jerked his hand back, in pain, and Joshua looked up at him and said, "Sorry, darling". Did your little fella not apologise to you? :whistle:<br><br>Post edited by: Lidia, at: 2007/07/13 10:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hveusnthbrige Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 lol, yes I've had that a few times. I do move my finger a little bit or I'll hold his beak with my other hand. Brings up an interesting point, teaching the Grey what a reaction means... Likely consistency is the key here but that can be difficult. Different people in the home.. different reactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 I have tried the step up method, but only managed to get him to step off once, then Ollie flies off and lands on the top of the cupboard where I have a job to reach him, any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyGreys Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Kay does Ollie step up when asked ? When mine fly off out of reach i turn my back & ignore them,i start talking to myself most times curiosity gets the better of them & they fly back on command. Dont let ollie see that it bothers you,turn away from him & he will come down,The more you try to get him down it will turn into a battle of willpower, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest briansmum Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 love my greys, can you repost this in the new thread i made entitled "stepping up (re:kay question)" as it's different topic to the one in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyGreys Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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