First time raising a 4 month old grey!

[Loukas]

Hi,

 

I'm a new dad to a 4 month old CAG and today is day 2. I've got no experience with birds and I've got to say that I don't trust the bird store owner very much. I had a few questions and it would be great to get second opinions.

 

First of all, even though I've got a huge new cage for him (I say him since i've had the dna test done), the pet store owner told me that it would be a little dangerous to put him in it so young and that I should keep him in the carrying cage for two weeks - at which point he will cut his feathers. I am also meant to feed him baby formula once a day in the evening with the syringe although he eats solid food on his own as of the morning. I was meant to get him in 2 weeks but the pet store owner told me that if I took him now and fed him myself with the syringe that it would strengthen the bond.

 

All of this could be right; But then again he did seem a little pushy so Im not so sure if he is trust worthy.

 

Can anyone offer some advice? It would be doubly appreciated!

 

Thanks,

 

Loukas

[danmcq]

Well, first congratulations on getting a new CAG and welcome to the forum. :-)

 

Now for the bad news....

 

Keeping that young grey in a Carrier for 2 weeks is completely bad advice.

 

How old is this Grey?

 

YOu do not need to use a syringe and I would strongly recommend you not use it unless you are very experienced in feeding young chicks in this manner. YOu can shoot the liquid down the wrong way into his lungs and it will be fatal. Use a spoon instead and angle it so he can control the intake and how it goes down.

 

Many young Parrots will want a feeding at night and your Grey may require it to ensure it is getting proper nutrition.

 

Is he eating pellets, veggies, fruits etc.?

 

Place your Grey in the new Cage, put his perches low and place towels on the bottom incase he falls so he will not bust his keel open.

 

Your Grey needs to "Fledge". meaning learn to fly and gain coordination and agility. I am totally against wing clipping and would recommend you do not get it done, especially by a pet shop owner.

 

There are many topics on this board concerning nursery (raising your grey) foods, health, training etc. Please check them all out and you'll learn many things important in raising an African Grey

[Loukas]

Hi, thank you very much for the speedy reply.

 

Just to clarify, the pet shop is actually only a bird shop. He supposedly specializes in parrots but has other types of birds too. The issue is that he is the only bird shop/seller in the entire city of Brussels, (Belgium). I did some research and he's been open nearly 30 years... not that it necessarily makes a difference.

 

I also told him that I read to put the perches lower in case he falls in the big cage but he said that the bird was going to climb up the cage anyways and could still fall.

 

On the syringe (just to clarify, there's no needle of course), I indeed said "what if I shoot down the wrong side" to which he replied that, that is only possible when the bird was younger, in which case he wouldn't sell it and proceeded to show me how to do it. He is just over 4 months now (so 17 weeks old). Today in one bowl I had this muesli type food that is for birds mixed with half chopped fresh apple and in the other bowl i made a mix of pellets with some sunflower seeds. Then he has his water bowl which i try to keep as fresh as possible. He eats well. I ve seen him drinking too. This is really the first full day with him so Ill observe more as time goes by.

 

In terms of the wing clipping, Im not for it either but he told me before I bought him that he would not sell him to me if I didnt get them clipped every 6-7 months. These two weeks i was told he can fly when he gets out of the cage. I guess its the "fledging" period you mentioned?

 

I'm a little confused, thanks again for the help, Im really trying to make it perfect for my little bird.

[Tycos_mom]

You just bought yourself an unweaned baby with no experience this could be a little dangerous. You can't stop that last feeding until your bird refuses every bit of it and weaning is not the easiest thing to do please read every sticky in the nursery on hand feeding and weaning. You can put your baby in the big cage but you will have to put a heavy blanket or a couple of thick towels under the news papers either on top of the grate or remove the grate for now. put the perches down low to the floor and the food dishes on the floor but not under the perches this way if your baby falls it won't get hurt baby birds are Quite clumsy until they learn how to climb. Your baby's wings should never be clipped unless absolutely necessary for safety training and teaching is a lot better option. if you do clip it should not be done until your baby can fly and land perfectly. during the weaning process it is necessary to weigh your baby on a daily basis to make sure its not losing to much weight and he able to hold his weight on his own cutting your baby or rushing him off formula can cause severe emotional and behaviour problems the same goes for wing clipping if its done to soon and the bird has not fully learned to fly and land there are a few very good threads on weather to clip Please read this link before you decide to clip your baby's wings.

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/the-grey-lounge/134631-arguments-for-&-against-clipping.html I noticed you said that the shop owner said he would not sell you the bird unless he had his wings clipped well he can't take the bird back now that you have bought it so if you don't take your bird in to be clipped whats he going to do about it as a Grey owner it now become your choice weather or not you want him clipped or not. Please at least read the link I put in before decideing at least that way you can make the right decision for you<br><br>Post edited by: Tycos_mom, at: 2009/07/04 18:43

[Ernzzz]

I agree with Danmcq 100%. He said it all!

[Acappella]

Wow, wouldn't sell to you unless you clip? He's your bird now, what's he going to do, birdnap him? I've never had a baby bird. Dorian came to me when he was about 4 years old. I can only tell you what I wish his babyhood had included & hope that helps you make decisions about raising your grey.

 

I wish he had been allowed to learn to fly. He was never allowed to fledge and now that he finally has all his feathers he's a very clumsy and accident prone flyer. Why is the seller so pro-clip? Has he told you it will save you from losing him if a door or window is left open? Many here can tell you categorically that it will not. A frightened bird, even if well clipped, can gain height, fuelled by pure adrenaline. If it never learned to fly well before it was clipped, what it won't know how to do is control its direction. Even if it wants to fly back to you, it may not be able to. If it catches a breeze it may never be seen again. So even in a house with a clipped bird, you can never, ever, leave a window or door open. I wish when Dorian was a baby he had been introduced to an outdoor harness, like the Aviator used by many parronts here. That way he could enjoy the outdoors safely with me.

 

I wish Dorian knew how to take food from a spoon, and was willing to try new foods. If I ever have to give him medicine, it would be nice it he didn't view spoons as potential parrot killing devices:angry: Do a search here on abundance weaning, and read all you can about raising baby birds in the nursery forum.

 

Handle, handle, and manhandle your baby every which way. Get him used to you holding and playing with his talons, in case you ever have to trim them for the sake of your punctured and scratched hands and arms! Hold out his wings gently, lay him on his back, get him used to being covered or wrapped in a towel, and make it all a game so he isn't afraid of it.

 

Speaking of games, teach him how to play. Let him see you play with new toys or make them in front of him. Roll a ball to him when he's on the floor with you. Give him a toy box full of foot toys to explore. Dorian's cage was sooo full of hanging toys when I got him, he, ironically, had no room in his cage to play, or even fully stretch his wings. All he knew to do was to bang them against the bars. His toys were never moved or rotated. Its taking a lot of work on my part to get him to start investigating playing, and don't get me started on what I have to do to introduce something new. It literally took weeks before I could get him to go near his boing perch.

 

Pat's tip about weighing is very important Since birds are so good at hiding illness, weight loss can be an early indicator that something is wrong. I have a digital scale for just that purpose, but Mr. Scared of Everything won't go near it.

 

I wish Dorian had been taken outside in a carrying case. Lots here use the Adventure Pack. Once your baby is old enough (someone who has experience with babies will know more about this than me), and you know he feels safe and protected around you, expose him to different people and situations. A little work getting him familiar with these things now will make you life so much easier if you ever travel or move with him. Also (and this goes for every single pet that may have to go to the vet) take him out for rides in the car. Let him view a ride in the car as an adventure with dad, not a noisy roller coaster ride into the mouth of, well you know:evil:

 

While you have him out on these trips, socialize, socialize, socialize. Dorian still does his best impression of a statue when I have people over (if statues could tremble!) and no one but I can touch him, ever. Far from ideal.

 

So there you have my wish list if I could go back in time. Then again, if his former owners had been attentive enough to do all these things, they probably would have never sold him to me! Now for the last, most important point. TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS! If that little voice in you head is telling you that there's something wrong with what the store owner is telling you, then there is! This little grey guy is your responsibility now, not the stores. Do your research, ask questions, and make your own decisions. This forum is a great resource with lots of caring and experienced members. Look into joining a local bird club if you have the time. They can also be a great support. Have a good time getting to know your new companion.

 

Now you need to choose a name, and post some pictures. We're picture crazy 'round here:lol:

[she]

You have been given great advise,but not from the store owner.At 17 weeks I would say he is weaned or only needing a small comfort feed of a night.Put him in his cage with a blanket on the base covered with papers and have his perches quite low for now.He will ony learn coordination and balance with practice and that wont come in a carrier.The clipping issue is yours and yours alone to make a decision on, I prefere not to cip but thats my opinion.Make an informed decision on clipping through reading about it hear and remember ,it is not the store owners decision.Have plenty of toys and lots of different food available for him to try and weigh him daily at the moment to see his weight is stable.Have him out of the cage daily as much as you can and be sure to supervise any out of cage time.<br><br>Post edited by: she, at: 2009/07/04 21:08

[Loukas]

Thank you all for you great advice. The big cage is built, clean and ready for him. Regardless of what the owner says, in the end, there's no way I could leave him in the small cage for two weeks.

 

I'm happy to say though that at least he eats a lot, even though he has a preference for the sunflower seeds and the fruit first. He loves attacking the little toy he has hanging in there as well. Ive got a couple of bigger ones for his new home.

 

Its bed time soon over here so I'll post some updates tomorrow. I'll try to post pictures as well.

 

Thanks again for the info

[Loukas]

Hi all, just wanted to give an update on how we're doing. I decided to name my grey Apollo. He's in the big cage now and loving it.

 

I had a question about flight. When he was out of his cage yesterday and on the training perch, he would hold onto the perch and qnf flap his wings as if trying to fly. My question is: Is he actually trying to fly but cannot do it yet or is he flapping for some other reason? I know it might sound like a newbie question but, technically I am : )

 

Also, I started obvserving him closer just to get an idea of his body language and I noticed that he tends to stand on his right foot a lot and tucks his left up under his belly. While doing this he usually does this vibrating thing with his beak and tongue. I've read that greys do this while relaxing and usually when preparing to go to sleep but Apollo tends to do it 5-6 times throughout the day and not necessarily when he's about to sleep. Should I be worried or is this just a really relaxed bird?

 

Oh, and one last question: Should I always let him clean himself (with the help of a mist spray of water) or do I also need to give him a clean somehow ie with a wet towel or something. So far I have just let him preen himself which he tends to do often and quite well. It looks like he takes pride in it.

 

Thanks once again for all ure help.

[danmcq]

Apollo is a wonderful name. :-)

 

They do the hanging on and wing flapping in preparation for their first flight. They are building wing muscle, checking out those awesome wings and feeling the lift as they flap like a mad man.

 

Standing on one foot or the other with one tucked under is normal for them, as is the beak grinding. Apollo is just happy, content and kicking back. :-)

 

Let him preen himself, as all birds do through out the day. You should mist him 2 or 3 times a week and if he's interested, take him in the shower with you and see if he likes getting a few gentle droplets on him as you shower.

 

It sounds like you are a GreYt parront watching every move and sound of your new baby. :-)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/07/06 12:31

[Eckobird]

Hi Loukas, congrats on your new baby! Apollo is a great name. It sounds like he is adjusting to your home very well. Beak grinding is a sign of feeling relaxed and content. They usually stand on one foot when they are sleeping or getting sleepy. Usually when my baby gets sleepy like that he will lift his foot up and start getting chatty and nod off, lol its cute. Has your baby started making any noises? It sounds like your baby is fledging too, you should definitely let him fledge and learn how to fly before clipping him. Have you decided if you are going to bring him back to get him clipped yet? Don't do it because the breeder said you HAVE to get him clipped, its really not his choice, its YOURS! I really hope you decide not to get him clipped but either way its your choice and not ours. Anyways I hope to hear more about you and Apollo and maybe see some pictures of him when you get a chance. Enjoy the site. <br><br>Post edited by: caitb2007, at: 2009/07/06 16:10

[Loukas]

Thank you! I liked Apollo since Im greek and its easily translatable in english, greek and I hope parrot!

 

Yeah he makes a lot of sounds! It seems only when Im around though. Whenever I go to bed or I wake up in the morning he is always quite (except for slight sounds that are mixed with the sounds of his toy getting attacked). The moment im in the living room he start chirping away. He makes such a wide variety of little sounds. He hasn't been able to say Hello or another human word, Im not pushing him at all for that since I still want him to get comfortable around me and my apartment first before I try to get him focused on the training perch. I gotta say though that a lot of the sounds are not "birdie", almost as if he is practicing human words. He get loud too at times, I tend to hear windows around me shutting, but as long as I talk to him calmly he tends to quite down to listen to me.

 

He is definitely fledging! I will allow him to take flight although I do not have many perch like places for him to land on yet (So far he's been eye-balling the wide screen LCD, I hope thats not the first thing he's going to aim for ).

 

I've yet to decide whether or not to get him clipped. I dont worry about escape cuz even with the feathers clipped I would still always close the windows. Im really against it - I still get a pain seing a bird in a cage honestly - it kind of gets to me. The bird store owner I guess doesn't trust me much since im new to raising birds but rest assured that the decision will be my own as i alone will have to bear the consequences.

 

The next task is to introduce him to the bath. Its day 3 and Ive only misted him from above with the water bottle so far. At night I still have to feed him some baby formula even though he eats solid food on his own including pellets, however I tend to get a bit of the formula on him and I don't think preening will suffice.

 

I'll keep you all posted and thank you for checking in on this thread and helping us out.

[KHAN]

Apollo's a great name for a Parrot, glad to hear your both settling in

 

Not sure why an experienced bird seller would give you a bird that hasn't been weaned yet but it sounds like you got thorugh it okay.

 

Hope you decide not to clip his wings as there is nothing better than a happy Parrot flying around getting into mischief. And there are lots of games you can play with them when they're able to fly. KHAN likes to hang upside down off my hand then I slowly spin around until he flies off then comes back for more.

 

Being able to fly doesn't mean he's going to shoot through the first open window he see's. Mine never goes near an open window although i do keep a very close eye on him anyways.

 

All the best!

[dhorje]

I had no handfeeding experience when I bought my Grey at 3 months old. I used a spoon instead of a syringe.

I hand fed her 5X a day until she reached 6 months old.

I stopped hand feeding until she refused to be hand fed at 9 months. She is about 14 months now and is not wing clipped.

[chimaysmommy]

Congratulations Loukas on your new baby! I really love the name Apollo! Sounds like you'd gotten off to a rocky start with that "experienced" bird shop owner, but you seem to be just fine! Do you have any pictures of your baby?

 

I'd like to add my two cents in on the clipping subject...I am PERSONALLY against wing clipping, but it comes down to you and your baby. You have to make the right decision by him, his psyche, and his safety. No matter what your decision is, I would like to chime in with the others here and say let him fledge fully. Learning to fly AND land well.

 

Chimay unfortunately has a long clip to his wings (our breeder shipped him that way unfortunately, but it doesn't seem to bother him), but he still LOVES to perch on my hand or his Atom and just flap flap flap. We plan on allowing him to be unclipped from here on out. He also makes the beak grinding noise and stands on one foot throughout the day, mainly right before bedtime. Chimay's not a fan of misting/bathing at all, but he gets it anyway b/c it's good for him. Ha ha.

 

Can't wait to hear more about you and Apollo!<br><br>Post edited by: chimaysmommy, at: 2009/07/06 21:25

[Tycos_mom]

I love the name Apollo great name for a Grey. It sounds like your going to be a grey't parront and that your bird is settling nicely into your home. I'm so glad you are not going to rush into clipping your birds wings if you are planning to harness train him I would start as soon as possible. He should be just about weaned now and that's good I'm so glad you didn't keep him in the crate and decided to put him in the big cage its the only way he will learn to get his balance is to climb and he may fall but he will get back up and try again as long as you have padded the bottom of the cage it should be ok.

[Acappella]

Sound like you're off to a good start with a laid-back birdy. Welcome to the group Apollo. Dorian perches with one foot up and beak grinding throughout the day, usually in-between spurts of verbal diarrhoea like the one I'm listening to right now:) As for the tv, try putting something on it that makes it unattractive as a landing site. Maybe something unstable looking that might fall off, or a unpleasant feeling substance like tin foil (works with cats) Might make the nice tv less pretty for a while, but so will a big drop of poop:ohmy: If he does land there, you'll have to take him off over and over and over . . . till he gets the message.

[Luvparrots]

Hi Loukas, congratulations on your new baby. From your Avatar it is easy to see that Apollo is a very fine looking grey. From what I can read through your posts you sound like a very observant and caring parront. Can't wait to see some more pictures of Apollo and hear more about him!

[Acappella]

Hi, how goes getting to know Apollo? Pictures pretty pleeeeease:P

[Tango]

great advice up to this point. I have a 13 week old TAG we pulled out of a pet store at 8 weeks. Few notes from my experience:

 

1) Don't clip unless you have a dire reason, and then... it's not a good reason. These are prey animals and psychologically need to know they can flee (flight).

2) Don't sweat weaning. Our Cleo is still taking 2-3 handfed meals a day, depends on her mood. Some days she eats it all from the bowl with no help, some days she wants daddy to feed her. I have no problem taking 6 months to wean. The only timeline you need to adhere to is between you and your baby. Read up on abundance weaning... very important.

3) Keep the cage safe and as big as you can. Couple towels on the bottom will be fine.

[Loukas]

Hey all!

 

I managed to post a few pictures. It took me a while to scale them down to size.

 

I took Apollo to the bird guy cuz he wanted to weigh him and take a look at his feathers. He told me that he's gained good weight, is very gentle and his feathers looked great. At which point he busted out these massive sicssors and said "so shall we cut the feathers?" I was shocked and told him to put the weapon down. I asked asked him that if we cut the feathers before he learnt to fly then he'd be clumsy to which he agreed but added that if he learnt to fly then he wont cut the feathers. He said its more traumatic to him to have learnt to fly and then cut rather than cut before he learns. I said that its only been 4 days that ive got him and that maybe we should give apollo some more time to to get used to me and my apartment before we do anything. He gave me 2 weeks to decide.

 

So basically, either I cut before he learns to fly or if he learns to fly then I dont cut. My issue is that I live alone in a one bedroom apartment so basically theres the living room where the cage is and my bedroom. There's not much space to fly anyways. So I was thinking of just not cutting them and let him keep his sanity. The problem is that as you all know I am totally new to taking care of a parrot and I am slightly clueless as to what to expect if I do let him fly. And I mean both the pros and the cons. I can't possibly always keep him away from cables and other things in the room that he'll naturally want to investigate that might harm him. Please help me out a bit from the perspective of a clueless newbie.

 

This morning Apollo let me have it cause yesterday I worked long hours and had to go to a dinner with my boss so I didn't have a chance to let him out of his cage. I figured that at 1130pm when I arrived home was too late to take him out to play. In any case, this morning when he saw me he was sceeching soooo loud. I didn't know what to do. This is bound to happen once in a while. I've read that greys need a routine and Im worried now that when work related things happen then he might go crazy. I dont mean that I regularly will keep him locked up but there's bound to be days that I simply wont have the time to let him out for a couple of hours. Besides the playing with him when he's out, which I love, for every 2 hours out of the cage I have at least an hour going over the carpet and floor looking for poop and there's always minimum 5-6 steamers to find. Please let me know if im going to have serious problems because I really do not want to cause him harm but I also have to take care of the house, my job and myself in the hours Ive got from the time I come home till bedtime. Is there a way at least to control the pooping or is it something babies just do, or something he'll always do even when older? How do you cuddle with a grey on the couch if every 5 mins he's pooping on you? I know its a long post (as always) but im quite worried.

[Tycos_mom]

when they are babies they do poop alot more and you can potty train its not to hard it just take consistency when you have him out of his cage and you see him starting to do the potty dance wiggle tail step back have a news paper or paper towel when you see the signs say put him on the paper and say go poop and when he finishes give him tons of praise and get excited and pretty soon he will poop on demand every time you put him on the paper when you say go poop he will go. that way he will only go when you tell him to when he is out of his cage. If you get him a place to play like a play gym them even if he can fly he won't be chewing on thing he's not supposed to because he will be to busy playing with his toys on the playstand. when they do fly he will be able to turn on a dime and will fly in cirals he will be able to get from one room to the other I have 5 large birds and I've never had one that chewed up cables give him wood toys and foot toys and thing to shred and he will be a happy guy. They are allot of work as far as cleaning up their messes but the joy they bring is well worth it. If he poops when you cuddle have a towel for him to sit on you with but potty training may be a better option.

[Loukas]

Thanks a lot for the reply! I've tried keeping him on a towel but he keeps biting it. When he's out it doesn't seem like he wants to play with me, he just keeps investigating. He always aims for under the couch or under the cabinets and I try to prevent him cuz if he goes under there and doesnt come out on his own I dont think I'll be able to do much without scaring him.

 

In any case its still the begining and we're both getting used to eachother. I do have to get some perches for outside the cage.

 

By the way, I was told to only have one perch in his big cage. Is that normal? Also, I was told not to cover the cage at night either. I haven't and I guess he's sleeping cuz so far I haven't been woken up by any screaming. But I ask just in case.

 

Thanks again for the help!

[Eckobird]

I would put more than one perch in the cage for him. Why would only one be allowed? Thats all they do, is perch, so they need a lot of perches that are different textures, like a real bird safe branches, or a sand perch, or a rope perch etc.

 

Also you can cover the cage if you want to. I cover the cage for Ecko at night, most members on here do but some also choose not to cover their birds at night, its your choice, either way is fine.

 

Ecko also use to climb under couch and it would be hard to get him out so I started blocking his way so he didn't go under it. He eventually got the point and doesn't try to go under the couch anymore, you just have to tell them no over and over again.

 

Good luck, and great avatar picture by the way, Apollo is too cute.

[Loukas]

Hi! Thanks! I think he's cute too. I've got a few more pics on my profile page. Only now realised how to add pics on the post.

 

I believe the bird shop owner told me to keep only one cuz they tend to just sit on the highest one available. I still think I'll add at least one more cuz the cage is massive and technically empty if I only leave one.

 

Oh by the way, the bird shop guy also told me to add only ONE toy (I added two though, I may be new to raising birds but everybody needs more than one toy).

 

Yea I read up a bit on the cage covering. I think I might start to cover it cause sometimes I watch tv with the volume at a very normal level and he tries to sleep. I figure if I cover it he gets a little more darkness.

 

Speaking of sleep. When I see him try to sleep, every 6-7 seconds or so he shuffles his feet as if he's about to fall off and restabilises. The perch is the same as in my avatar so I don't think its a bad one or too thick. Maybe its a little too smooth. Its such a hassel to have only one bird shop in the city (and Brussels is relatively big) and having a bird shop owner who thinks that the bare minimum is sufficient to raise a healthy bird.