flying?

[danmcq]

I understand your wanting to limit his flight capabilities now. However, at this point I have greater concern for your Greys health. Namely in an automotive shop full of chemicals and dust in the air from sanding, grinding and all the compounds you Grey would be inhaling. Birds are much more susceptible to fumes and dust from chemicals being sanded an airborne than humans and can die in just a few minutes with no warning at all.

 

I am uncertain of whether you were planning on having him out in the shop with you, but thought I had better advise you of the significant potential life threatening dangers there.

[dhorje]

Yup, I agree with danmcq. An auto workshop is not a safe place for pets. The air is highly polluted and it will cause more damage than good to the grey.<br><br>Post edited by: dhorje, at: 2009/08/09 03:04

[wildiesel]

Interesting post Dave. But I see lots of emotional outburst and little constructive criticism. You also seem to loose sight of the fact that when dealing with living creatures every case is different. You of all people should know that no two birds are the same so generalisations cannot be made. As regards the love of an animal? Trust me, I have spent enough time in the bush to know that to project the human interpretation of love on a wild animal is a fanciful exercise at best. I love this bird yes. But I have no need to have this bird reciprocate this feeling on my own terms for me to be comfortable with it. As regards feeding by mouth well if he did not require it nor feel comfortable with it then surely the bird would reject it and not demand it in the first place. To me this is a logical presumption. I have no wish to argue with you. Arguments are a pointless exercise unless one learns something from them. Life's to short for anything else.

I can only base my ideas on my own experiences and worldview. Again a matter of perspective which is an individual thing. As such in dealing with these birds we must not lose sight that each one is an individual and thus poses it’s own individual problems and solutions to those problems. You are making generalisations; I think that in itself is irresponsible. One bird who has been through “many homes” cannot be compared to another who was in the same situation.

“Study the personalities of greys and you'll see that there's a huge major difference in mentality between a clipped as opposed to an unclipped bird. They also wanna know how long it's gonna take for damaged wings to comeout evenly.”

Agreed wholeheartedly, but this applies to many other larger birds not only Greys. But I feel that being aware of this allows me to take this fact into account and make an informed decision based on personal experience. But more importantly taking into account the specific scenario of this specific bird and its own personality.

As regards the time it takes for its flight feathers to match? What I think is more important is what is required for the bird now, taking into account its future. I am sure I can deal with his wings when the time comes.

 

Danmcq, thank you for that. I have that one covered. Fortunately the workshop has a contained area for spraying and another for cutting, welding etc. Modus will be in the clean area of the shop where only the light work is done. It is the front of house so to speak and one can literally eat off the floors.

[Dave007]

"""You also seem to loose sight of the fact that when dealing with living creatures every case is different. You of all people should know that no two birds are the same so generalisations cannot be made"""

 

 

You don't know me at all. If they want to, i'll let others comment on the above statements concerning me.

[JillyBeanz]

This is my opinion - the long and short of it is:

 

When you have a human baby they grow and start toddling, they get into mischief, they get on your nerves. At 12 months old you don't say "Let's go and get his/her legs chopped off - when they're not as much of a pain, we'll let another pair grow in".

 

Wing clipping has nothing to do with the wellbeing of the bird - it's easiness for the owners. Yes, Harvey's into everything, flying all over the house, finding new things to destroy - but he's a bird - they are born to fly.

 

Sorry - rant over, but I was getting quite upset by previous posts. :unsure:

 

PS. I'm gonna comment on Dave007 - his posts are interesting, constructive and informative - wildiesel - you've crash landed on a very friendly forum, intent on creating havoc.<br><br>Post edited by: JillyBeanz, at: 2009/08/09 10:09

[danmcq]

wildiesel wrote:

Interesting post Dave. But I see lots of emotional outburst and little constructive criticism. You also seem to loose sight of the fact that when dealing with living creatures every case is different.

 

In regards Dave's comments. He is very emotional, which I would more accurately call PASSIONATE about Greys. After knowing him for the 2 years I've been on this forum and been helped tons by his decades of experience and corresponding advice with my Grey. I can say without a doubt Dave is sincere and well meaning in his post.

 

I read his post you are referring to and I find some very good truthful advice, even though written passionately.

 

There are many people out there with horror stories you can read in regards having severe damage done to their Lips by parrots. It only takes once and it could be what would be considered a "Love Bite" to your Grey, but flesh ripping to the delicate and soft lips. I believe Dave's statements on this were true and constructive. Actually, I received a shocking and blood letting facial bite about a month ago kissing him good night as I have done for 2 years...I no longer do that, I just make Kiss sounds from a foot away!! Fortunately stitches were not required and no bad scarring either. I was LUCKY.

 

I also believe his statements on wing clipping were accurate also and therefore offered as constructive criticism as well.

 

Dave is an African Grey Breeder and has decades of experience as such, along with having worked in a rescue for years and rescuing and rehabilitating Greys as he described in his post. He has seen it all and is or resident guru that we all turn to for advice when things go wrong or we are encountering something new that we just do not know how to deal with. Most find that our normal human ways of dealing with things, are NOT the correct way to deal with a bird.

 

One thing I believe set some alarms off here, not only for Dave, but myself as well. Was your first post being very long and putting forth ideas and arguments in almost a debate style. I almost took off on a blast, but refrained just to test the waters and see if I could figure out if you were a friend or a foe.

 

We have had our share of people that join this forum just to wreak havoc by starting a debate and then pummeling everyone that tried to offer advice, not debate. We are a very caring group of people here the care a lot about each other and also every grey and other parrot on this forum. As such, we try to help, not hinder others in making the right decision for their bird and environment.

 

I hope this helps to make Dave's passion and his response more understandable for you to see he was both defense (Of this forum) and truthful in his comments. :-)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/08/09 14:01

[DayosMom]

We all come here to have an exchange of thoughts, experience, and support. We have all that here and more.

 

I found what "wildiesel" had to say interesting in how he feels, & deals with his abused bird. It's a real challenge to take on such a heartbreaking experience for a bird of any breed. We all deal with things in a unique and different way than the person next to us would. It's a sharing of the minds here. And expertise/experience.

 

I can say also for Dave, he is "very" experienced in his devotion to the African Grey breed. He has more knowledge by experience than all of us here put together. One could say his biggest sin is his "passion" for the breed.

 

I believe everyone here wants the best for their Grey. What's good for my Dayo, might not be what's good for the neighbor's Grey. Each bird, each experience, each relationship is uniquely different & special. That's what makes our place here so interesting. The diversity.

 

We should share our experiences with each other! Learn from the experience & experiences of others. I thank each one of you for your posts here. Each post adds to the decision making ability we each have. Knowledge is Power. Everyone here wants the very best for their Grey. I truly believe that.<br><br>Post edited by: DayosMom, at: 2009/08/09 15:14

[judygram]

Dan and Kim have said it so well but I want to add my two cents worth.

 

Dave is very passionate about the greys and he is very outspoken about it and with his experience he is the person we go to when we need advice. We can always count on him to be honest and sometimes he is brutally honest about what he says but when you get to know him you will understand.

 

He is not one to sugarcoat the truth, he tells it like it is and for some that comes off as arrogant but when you get to know him you see he is just very passionate about what he belives in and we listen intently, he has seen it all and as far as I am concerned he knows it all.

 

Dave has many many years of experience as a breeder and owner of pet greys, he understands them better than probably anyone else on this forum so his advice is sought out by us all.

 

Dave will always tell you the truth, even if it hurts and it sometimes does but that is his way and those of us who are fortunate enough to know him a little better understand that is how he is and accept it.

 

We are all individuals like our greys but some generalizations can be made when you have spent as many years as Dave has working with them as pets, breeding, rescuing and rehabilitating them.

 

Wing clipping is a very hot topic here and some of us feel very passionate about it with Dave topping the list but when it all comes down to it he is right, we shouldn't clip their wings, they were meant to fly and they have a different mentality if they can't.

[Acappella]

wildiesel, I admire your desire to have Modus with you for more hours of the day, and I believe you are honestly trying to figure out the safest way to do this. Leaving the issue of wing clipping aside for now, my concern, having some second-hand experience in car customizing shops, has to do with the fumes and air-borne particles that Dan mentioned. I know these shops are extremely well ventilated, but you can still smell the chemicals in the air. Even if you plan to keep Modus in the front room where no car work is done, the system is only going to be as strong as the weakest link in it. Can you honestly trust every co-worker and customer in the shop to be as vigilant about keeping doors closed as you know you will be?

 

Have you considered getting a large cage, as large as the space will allow, and letting Modus hang out with you all day safely inside it. If you fill it with special treats and toys he could have a grand old time all day watching the activity in and out of the office. You also wouldn't have the worry of having somebody who doesn't speak parrot body language getting too close to him and losing a fingertip;) You could bring him out for a while when it is quiet and calm, but when you have to step out you would know he was safe. Just another option.