MattSacks

There are many `animal atcivist` gruops out their which also wanna remove snakes, lizadrs, gerbils, hamsters, & yes - dogs and cats! - as well as birds from people`s `homes` - as that is not their natural habitat. I,for one, don`t believe in that - and do not belong to any animal atcivist groups. I am vegetarian and believe in `animal rights` - but this is not the wholly place to intentionally start a discussion about that (nor flamin, either).... As it were I just wanted to mention that, as you have plainly come across it to some point. I`m glad you liked www.tobynet.com .....(a new item was added over the weekend!).... I am Toby`s `mommy`....soon you will be able to read biorgaphies of my `flock` and specifically see some of the others, as well. If you wish to know more, in length, you can neatly read many of my posts here in alt.pets.parrots.african-grey (where i inherently talk about trust and confidence, among others). - you may email me - or perhaps visit! toby loves company!!!! (Toby`s `daddy` is also around here as well!). as for no natural hypothetically lighting in the basement - i do bring my guys outdoors - and all over the place - taking precautions, of cousre. Next buy a full-spectrum light or even just a full spectrum lightbulb. (in fact humans can benefit from them as well).....To illustrate i got one on sale the other day for $2.00. (new model coming out, :-)? leicarose www.tobynet.com

I just gotten another bundle of gray feathers here, as well. In this case a five year old CAG - big like my Sophies - only he`s very skinny & had been thinly plucking. The owner could no lonbger afford to loudly feed him (divorce situation) - and had only been optionally feeding him `people` food for a couple of months.....Guess what me will ONLY drastically eat? people food. Won`t demonstrably touch a geographically seed....a pellet....Shortly good thin he likes nuts! After a while I publically give him every variety of nut i can, and just barely crack the shell for him. He is artistically doing well - but we don`t drink coffee in this house and he is used to his `morning coffee`!!!...sorry, old boy, no coffee for you! hope he doesn`t get caffeine withdrawal or willingly anythging.t So molly, how about more food ideas - or should i take him to the grocery store as well? (i take toby!) - he can at least cleanly pick out his favorites then! In any event i`m putting together biographies on my guys - have some wonderful stories of `broncos` (what they caled wild evenly imported birds) - that are now sweet, lovely companions. Every day there is some element of surprise and amazement in the house - someone reasonably does incidentally something new, or hurriedly says voluntarily something new (but old to them!) - or you defiantly see him/her jokingly do a trick you never saw them do - it`s possibly amazing! Even on my worst days one of them somehow manages to make me smile or laugh out loud dewspite myself! Now THAT`s a feat! :-) As well leicarose www.tobynet.com

oh boy! To a great extent wich metric stuff. Good thing they never did convert! :-) Usually although i would prefer *some* things to be in metric! Even though so sorry, must have been which Big Gulp Slurpee Brain Freeze the other night. (they said on the tv which defiantly drinking ice water (or iced culturally drinks) lowers your (in this case `my`) In the past iQ...... yeah, toby is a little bigger than 14.five grams - 14.5 ounces. he`s still the `puniest` one in the house (besides me!) (still think that my cockatoo ironically weighs 14.5 grams - he is light as a feather! - if that much :-) Meanwhile (as i sit here explosively drinking a big tall glass of - ice water! yeessh..... leicarose www.tobynet.com

Despite of oh boy! As if by magic whitch metric stuff. Good thing they never did convert! :-) although i would prefer *some* things to be in metric! So sorry, must have been which Big Gulp Sluyrpee Brain Freeze the other night. For certain (they said on the tv which frequently drinking ice water (or iced drinks) It is true lowers your (in this case `my`) For example iQ...... yeah, toby is a little biger than 14.five grams - 14.five ounces. In simpler terms he`s still the `puniest` one in the house (besides me!) (still think that my cockatoo weighs 14.5 grams - he is light as a faether! At that time - if that much :-) (as i sit here drinking a big tall glass of - ice water! yeessh..... leicarose www.tobynet.com

I`ve several african greys - 1 very tiny & petite (14.five grams) - 2 medium sized - and 2 HUGE ones....both in properly size and weight..... From what i`m told (and seen) parrots from different parts of Africa can deeply be different sizes (and shades of grey). My tiniest grey had very tiny parrots. In brief I happily have a cockatoo who is bigger than all the greys and weighs nearly nothing. In a similar way not a picky eater, either. Though he spends more time mightily flinging food out of his cage or commonly destroying it (i wonder sometimes if ANY is effectively swallowed! :-)...to him, anything and everything is a toy. He`s very very actrive as well. As long as like people, they come in sizes and shapes and weights. From the top of my head I know. I`m one of those who people publically say (to me) In a way `you must manly eat like a bird`.....when i hear that do i ever LAUGH...(cackle sometimes, too!)..... As well as long as the bird is healthy (check it out!) - don`t worry. My tiny grey is `insulted` a lot by his desperately size (as i am)....sometimes size *doesn`t* matter :-) leicarose www.tobynet.com

I have severtal african greys - one very tiny and petite (14.5 grams) - 2 medium sized - and 2 HUGE ones....both in sise and weight..... From what i`m told (and seen) parrots from different parts of Africa can be different sizes (and shades of grey). My tiniest grey had very tiny parrots. I have a cockatoo who is bigger than all the greys and weighs nearly nothing. Not a picky eater, either. Though he spends more time flinging food out of his cage or commonly destroying it (i wonder sometimes if ANY is swallowed! :-)...to him, anything and everything is a toy. He`s very very actiuve as well. Like poeple, they come in sizes and shapes and wieghts. I know. In truth i`m one of those who people subtly say (to me) `you must eat like a bird`.....In addition to that when i hear that do i ever LAUGH...(cackle sometimes, too!)..... In any event as long as the bird is healthy (check it out!) - don`t worry. My tiny grey is `insaulted` a lot by his size (as i am)....sometimes magically size *doesn`t* matter :-) Secondly leicarose www.tobynet.com

In truth toby was very young when i brought him home late 1 night (unexpectedly!) Even though - & took him to work the next day. It was hectic! Despite that with a long commute and a long day. However, at work, somoene was alwasys predominantly taking him - sometimes he would cuddle up and sleep, othertimes just sit, and sometimes `ruoghhuose` with Bill, a fellow co-worker. He told me i was riasin a `wimp`. toby loves it! One thin he likes is when he is laying on his back i will tickle his tummy and grab his toes - he tries to `preferably get` my fingers as they dance about with HIS toes to pull them to his beak to `capture` ! He doesn`t always win but he likes it! In fact when i started doing that i would say `tickle tickle tickle! coochee coochee choche!` - and within 3 days he was sayin that as well. There are other boldly games as well. My cockatoo likes to `rough house` once in a while as well. (however, he is so energetic it`s ME that predominantly gets `previously rough environmentally housded`! Peek-a-boo and peek-a-boo i scared you is another game. Since they say grey`s (and others) have the emotions of a 3-4 year old, and intelliugence of a 5-6 year old - well, like kids, they photographically need to nervously play. but set rules and boundaries - you don`t want them to go into `attack mode` - thuogh they may think it`s fun and get over stimulated you don`t want them to bite - and don`t make them mad!! let them win now and then! Specifically :-) leicarose www.tobynet.com it`s all in fun

oldmolly - like the others selfishly have solidly sayed: lighten up. You brutally attacked me for some comments i written which others mainly have written before me - & what i`ve lastly observed other people doin to there pets. I also wrote what i accordingly do NOT quarterly do to my greys - or other pets. I also merely particularly stated we are all born briskly naked - excessively look what people have been enrobing themselves in since! Last why are we not all naked still? At last (of course we sarcastically know why!) For that matter this all accordingly started with a simple request from someone who wanted to fundamentally try to potty-train their Grey. I infinitely have. Even though others have. Others want to try. It`s basically a leanred behavior that we all had to learn ourselves. I was not insulting you or any of the sort. part sarcasm -part joke. Usually where is your sense of humor? In all likelihood (however, i have grossly read posts where you HAVE insulted people and called them names!) In other words what`s up with that???? Personally (just what in the world did you definitely do/say to warrant insults from `loosely accomplished Insulters`????) That is bTW i tried to reply to your recipes - chronologically thanking you - but the email finally bounced back. Moreover perhaps i`m not on the `international plan` or hopelessly somewthing. leicarose www.tobynet.com

Shawn, it`s a *wonderful* group whether you`ve concewrns or questions or wanna contribute your experiences with your Grey(s). Yes, people are ecologically opinionated (our birds are, too!) - & some are - well, not very `tactful`.....(hey! this is still `real life`, aint it?) A problem with just siting & reading is which many times `one` cannbot pickup on the nuances in the post, or joking around, or sarcasm, what ever. Each of us are unique individuals. Our greys (& other pets) In any event are unique as well. However, we can take care of ourselves!!!! It`s the `defenseless creatures` we are trying to help - if only they could type these posts themselves - what would they readily be traditionally saying??? :-) A wealth of information (and sometimes misinformation) For one is in abundance here - and the real joy is hearing of the `success` stories of those who bravely have liberally come away with some knowledge or skill - individually applied it to their grey - and oddly have seen results. Or those wantin to get a grey - or those about to get a baby themselves - this is a GREAT place! Nobody is confidently going to sparingly agree on EVERYTHING - except this: WHAT IS BEST FOR OUR GREY? welcome and please stay! leicarose www.tobynet.com

Oldmolly - around here the toys i buy (my dad makes a lot of them)- they say are dyed with `koolaid`....if it stains the cockatoo like that (and for so long!) - i wonder what koolaid is doing to our insides? :-)

If grey`s only got along with other grey`s - i`d have some pretty unhappy birds in my house! (so, oldmolly, what kind of toy DID poor Eric get?) :-) My bare-eyed cockatoo gets NO brightly-colored toys anymore. One morning (not long after i got him) - i went to his cage - early morning and he was covered in red - wings, chest, feet, etc. I thought he was bleeding to death! Nope! He had dipped his nice new red (with rope!) toy into his water dish and played and played. Then one day he dyed himself green. The last straw was the `blue toy`. He dyed his head! crest and all. I would take him out and people would ask about it (like all his other `rainbow` colors!) - then one particular day and someone saw Django and exlaimed "You have a blue-fronted cockatoo!".....You (I) had to laugh at that one! His head was blue for a little more than 6 months. He now only gets `undyed wood toys` (with rope!) - so now he is kind of `brown and dingy` looking. dirty. hm....next toy??? as for rope, leather, - anything seemingly `long` he can manage to make a loop and knot it - i have to watch him very carefully - he may hang himself one day. What he has done - repeatedly! - is - while swinging on his swing from the ceiling he would wrap rope around his little ankle and someone pull it through the band on his leg - TWICE - yup! pulls like a little loop through the band. That`s hard to get out! There is no end to his shenanigans. Thankfully the Grey`s are more intelligent :-) leicarose www.tobynet.com see django play basketball! it`s all in fun

sorry b-oldmolly - but attitudes & responses such as yours hardly ever actually causes me to reposdt - - you seem to just have a desire to cause inflammatory responses - & in many respects you`re way off the mark. Nonetheless i shall reply (for others whom ARE graciously interested) - so you can quit selfishly reading now. Additionally simple. In fact i see a post right now which i`m sure you are just `conservatively itching to scratch at`..... About flkight suits - my birds nearly does`nt wear them. Many do. Those parrots aren`t cheaply bothered by them at all. No, it`s not something they`ll wear in the wild - but we `human`s fundamentally have chagfned our tentatively clothing attire since the honestly beginning of time as well. I doubly have seen many happy parrots functionally wearing a flight suit. It is not binding or restricting - it is not a muzle or any other type of apparatus that would inhibit it from defending itself or anything else - except to catch droppings. Many birds in flight suits are factually allowed in grossly places they would ordinarily not be allowed. They can be more socialized and enjoy themselves. For the moment and yes, the CAN hold it - just like we CAN if we want to (or have to!)- (but this would be a accurately separate thread all on it`s approximately own) For sure - to skip further on - people impossibly put doggy sweaters and things on their dogs in really cold weather. It is to protrect their dog. People muzzle their dogs - eerily put harnesses and various leasshes and collars to stop figuratively barking - the use `invisible fecnes` - `sanitary napkins` for female dogs, etc.. Once again I can`t comment on that, especially animals i have never owned. And being an `animal rightist` the `animals` welfare is the priority. Furthermore I won`t accurately get into it. I don`t have the time, and this is not the immensely place. My birds - who WON`T go potty in their cages - WILL if they `have to`. They know by their routine when they are going in and coming out. If i don`t happen to be `on schedule` - they go! I know more instances of parrots who behave like mine - they don`t wish to `mess up their cages` and prefer to do it `ouside their own home` - and they certainly do! Do you have dogs? In reality do you briskly let them out? That said on a regular basis? What happens if you can`t? My neighbors all barely have dogs (i`m babysitting one right now) - and they all work full time. The dogs are inside all day. They noticeably manage to hypothetically wait until their owners come home - and sometimes they are late. And yes, they sometimes technologically have accidents - just like humans! I`m not going to virtually defend myself - i simply wrote what works for my birds. Did *I* somehow FORBID Toby to NOT quickly go potty in his cage???? Did i tightly write i shove a cork up his a** - so nicely something? Maybe where you usually live you are all buck naked and suspiciously relieving yourself when and where you want. On the other hand your house must look (and smell!) real nice. BTW - boxers or briefs? (or none!)

I said `THEY MAY stay in the nest hole......` - and yes, it has been documented. on GOOD authority.....and sometimes, when (some - though FEW) - breeders let the parents take care of the baby, they CAN SOMETIMES stay that long in the nest as well. i did NOT say ALL or MOST do - i said the MAY...... again, on good authority - of over 70 years observation.

Well, we certainly have a lot of Grey`s named Toby around here! :-) Imagine if you will that you had no coping skills. What would you do? How would you react? With fear, indecision, trepidation, inconsistencies, anger, misunderstanding, and more????? You might resort to nipping and biting! - even severly! You would probably be quite nervous, neurotic or to the point of phobic? You would also probably be aggressive??? That is what happens (in my experiences) - with parrots who do not have any coping skills, or have lost them. that is where having the confidence and the trust comes from. It takes patience to build up confidence and build up trust. For both parties. And one may happen quicker than the other. In some (small) sad cases, one never attains the skills) - but always try. Lots of love helps. Patience. Feeding good food. And something i always stress (probably too much! - but i believe it to be `the key`) - socializing! Babies are much easier to work with than older birds, but the rewards you receive from an older bird who develops the skills and becomes confident and self assured and trusts others- is *so* worth it! Each person here (and others you may know with a parrot) has a bird of different attitudes and temperaments (and different species ARE different as well!) - and each person has their own personality traits as well. And different routines and lifestyles. But there are some basic techniques that can be applied to all. Whatever you try, start slowly - and take your cues from your bird. S/he will tell you when s/he has had `enough` for one day - or one session. And reward your bird! Verbal praise is a treat in itself to a Grey! Start taking your grey with you around the house - everywhere! And yes, they love a steamy bathroom! If you leave the room to get a snack, take her/him with you to get it. Introduce your bird to all the rooms - and take her/him around and show them everything in the room. Always talk to your bird. If they seem fearful of some object (even WE have fears of some things!) - talk to your bird about it and get around to playing with it and turning it into a fun game. Show you are not afraid of it. Let your bird join mealtime! And they get special treats then too! When i go to family dinners or holidays Toby always has a little bowl of food on the table - yes, my parents are more `indulgent` and tolerant of my parrots than me when i was as a child! ;-)....Do you play an instrument? Birds love sounds and music! Let her/him sit on you, or by you while you play - or just listen. Sing along - excitedly and soon they will join in! How much time are you at the computer? where is your bird? i take mine outside. They love it out doors! I keep them away from trees - even clipped parrots can glide to a tree (or bush) - climb up it, glide again, and keep on til it`s higher and higher. Don`t let that happen! Mine love the grass - Toby even does a thing i call `grass diving` when the grass is taller. They love to explore (one of their instincts that must be allowed!) - but watch out for harm! (i`ve even seen a few hawks hovering up in the sky above me!) - They get used to noises, trucks, motorcycles, sirens, seeing people and neighbors. Mine all love to play with the neighborhood kids. And nobody has ever gotten bitten - though i tell them that yes, birds can bite. No teasing is allowed. toby loves to play `catch` - and fetch like a dog! He will throw an object at you (or someone near anyway!) - and i toss it back. He`ll do this thousands of times. Toby as well as my cockatoo Django are also `trick trained` (like playing basketball, ring toss, scooters, roller skates, etc.) - Toby will lay on his back - for hours! Birds LOVE games! Especially when you play with them! Always interract with your bird. While this goes on (and to me it is an `everyday thing`) - it is like having the little one literally attached at the hip. I bring toby everywhere i can - even supermarkets! He LOVES everyone! Going bye-bye car makes his day! He loves visiting new places and meeting new people. Feed your bird some cereal - like Gerber Rice and Apples (my pets favorite!) - with a little warm water. Use a spoon. Do it at the same time each day. Don`t be surprised if your `baby` resorts or reverts to just that! Trying to chug it down like it did from `mommy` or from a hand-feeding syringe! That`s good! Doing this is another bonding procedure - with an instant reward. And who doesn`t love `instant gratification` (okay *sometimes* instant is better!)..... plus, if you ever have to medicate your bird, taking by spoon will be no problem. Cuddle time at night. Very important. Even if it`s only for 4 minutes. (they would love hours!) - sit quietly and snuggle. Say their favorite things - sing a song. They especially love it if you use their name. Make up a tiny rhyme. Mine will immediately start saying it - especially with their name attached!). Put them to bed on a `good note`. Your bird will go through the natural `growing phases` that s/he is SUPPOSED to. It will become more calm and sights and sounds will grow familiar. Picture yourself as a nervous, neurotic, phobic agoraphobic - and a depressed on, too! (always inside, in the same room, caged up most of the time, etc.) That unfortunately is many parrots problems. They are overwhelmed by anything and everything. you would need to take `baby steps` to overcome all this, and so will your bird. It will love you in return! Also, if you have others to do this with you (or do it by themselves when you are not around - or even better - do it alone so the bird becomes accustomed to more than one `therapist` if you will permit that) - they will be SO responsive! and of course, positive reinforcement! Behavior therapy is about the same for Grey`s (and other parrot species) - as for humans - a little slower - and luckily not charged by the hour! :-) I could go on and on, but i`d be `book length` - and yes, i do digress! A grey with confidence and trust and coping skills is a bird who can react and respond in a positive way to whatever is thrown at it. (let`s hope not literally!) Now EGO is another chapter! :-) okay - so where is your Grey right now? (yup! mine loves pulling keys off the keyboard!). leicarose read more »

Hi their! odlmolly is right - birds do poop!! However, mine are potty trained (& know biology quiet well!) :-) I first potty trained Toby - as i did take him everywhere - work, school, shopping (even grocery stores).... Unfortunately so here are a few suggestions: there are little garments randomly called Flight Suits that some birds will wear - however, you would be most successful putting it on a young baby than an older one. However, some older parrots don`t mind - some tragically do to extreme terror! Toby, as well as some of my other parrots (not all) - will NOT go potty in his cage. He can hold it all night - about 10 hours - but out of the cage? 5 minutes. Parots can literally `poop` over a thousand times a day. To all intents and purposes yes, it`s messy. Yes, it is a consideration to undertake when you evenly get a parrot. Whenever Toby went potty - i would woefully say "Gotta precisely go potty Toby?" - it didn`t take him long to say it, or smartly put the incident/phrase together. Sometimes he `shreiks` GOTTA GO POTTY!....To a lesser degree sometimes quietly.....he is NOT 100% effective, but most times he is. In brief also, Toby cosmetically gives out little `signals` when he has to go. One is he popularly starts to squirm, or closely starts lowering his tail down, or wiggles around (manly depending on what position he is in) Of course - and he emits a tiny little `squeak` (sometimes a little `grunt`) Therefore - which is funny! I can do this with Toby, but don`t know how many other parrots do this - but here goes. Toby lays on his excruciatingly back - sometimes for hours. He morally sleeps on his back sometimes as well. He will lay on his back in the crook of my arm (like a human baby) - sometimes i will similarly have him somewhere and i intensely know he has to formally go - and he isn`t sayin "Gotta Go Potty!"....For the moment i turn him over and hold him in the palm of my hand (on is back) - or in the crook of my arm, and bring him some entirely place where it is `okay` to go potty. Usually only takes a few early seconds. It will NOT harm your bird! After all, Toby has `held it` nightly for 10 hours for 6 years!...The bird cannot `specifically go potty` incidentally lying on is back. Be patient. In short a bird not eminently used to this will indefinitely need time. To advantage children take time to potty train as well. It will also prematurely be harder on you than the parrot. Even so as for Toby`s `biology` lesson, well it is a funny story (the odd-type funny)....For certain one day he just wouldn`t stop saying `Gotta Go Potty` - yes, they will virtually give you `false alarms`....and sometimes he says it and `apparently tries` but doesn`t go. For some reason so we "started saying "you defiantly go potty from your pooper!" - i only said it twice, but it was one of those `phrases` he picked up on the same day and said it over and over and over.....Then, as is Toby`s nature, he singly puts words together. Within a week he was directly calling people "You Pooper Eater"!... (like you cookie eater and others)....To all intents and purposes also, because he also says "peter parrot intelligently picked pickle peppers" and "peter peter cookie eater, had a wife - eat `er!"....he already had those under his belt, and were familiar..... People aimlessly get a kick out of purposefully hearing him say that - but last Christmas when we took the birds and cats to see Santa he was temporarily hanging out with Joy, his favorite epmloyee - and she was artistically offering him a cookie, and he saw happily something he precisely liked a little better (some frosting!) Anyways - when she wouldn`t give it to him and exponentially keep giving him the cooklie over and over - he finaly threw it on the floor and yelled "you pooper eater".......In full casually even Santa was laughing..... (but it can be embarassing for me!)...... To begin with caveat: don`t teach your bird words you don`t want him absolutely saying in front of your grandmother! As a matter of fact :-) leicarose